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1 hour ago, vandarr said:

Bah. In the world of MMOs, rangers are just another form of hippies.

Drizzt ruined rangers. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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I believe it would be fun with a similar class we had in old Shadowbane; a class who can peak, pick pocketing, expert with an xbow, and he is, of course, the master of coins! It could be the pirate cl

CF is basically SB 2 with some tweaks.  In SB there was one class, thief, who could steal from players inventories but not their equipped items.    Without a tracking mechanism to help cou

Pick pocketing players would be interesting, but then the idea of the game is to kill them and take their stuff.  Or did you mean pick pocket your own faction.  

  • 2 months later...
On 3/23/2019 at 8:50 AM, Devonic said:

Pick pocketing players would be interesting, but then the idea of the game is to kill them and take their stuff.  Or did you mean pick pocket your own faction.

 

Well, what if you could stealth, steal someone's armor (or throw it on the ground), then scurry away.  Or if you found someone mining ore, you could snatch their resources and vanish.

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Thief was my jam in SB... xbow was amazingly underrated.  Skullduggery skills in mmorpg's or games in general should never be over looked because their fun has no ceiling. I remember when you could backstab with xbow.  Also remember backstabbing players post launch and 1 shot them, such epic times.  I had amazing duels with even scouts, good scout always had me but mostly it was my thief coming out on top. I also even trained thievery on another thief and ran through known farming camps and stole from the looters.  In shadowbane you increased INT and trained thievery skill and more you trained better you were at stealing, I could steal massive amounts of gold.  Not only that I stole from even mobs and kept going, I stole runes from mobs right beside ppl trying to kill mobs.  I vaguely recall stealing a bane scroll from a enemy whose was traveling to drop the stone on a tree... a well played thief was so much fun imo it was one of the best classes in SB for solo play and it needs to be a standalone class with powers of its own in CF.  Not everyone is going to be in guilds or have friends to call upon at any given time, some of us will be errand type of player, even tho its a pvp game if you're on the campaign map to pvp but nations are rolling in multi man groups... uh yeah you're killing no one for loot, but a thief could make plays.  I used sea dogs rest and often just played thief, I stole weapons and armor from honers, runes, gold everything. I remember sitting in a city by the banker waiting for players to recall to bank their goods and stealing int of the gods and escaping.

Thief needs to be completely stealth focused, meaning it can hide and stay hidden and do it quickly. Also needs escape based powers to allow it to evade enemies quickly. It needs to be able to use ranged or melee, needs to be able to steal, and have dmg burst coming out of stealth.  Thief needs to be the class that gets bonus's by using stealth in battle as much as possible.  It could even have a (knock out/stun)disable power which disables enemy from attacking or healing or casting for 3 seconds.  I think making it a discipline will be boring and undesirable because only so much can be done with that and thief role has so many possibilities in a game that has little confinement and is a open world pvp game. It would need its own armor there possibly are endless there as well and surely could have some amazing LA outfits. It will def making mole hunter a very desired rune.

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10 hours ago, RetroRelapse said:

Thief was my jam in SB... xbow was amazingly underrated.  Skullduggery skills in mmorpg's or games in general should never be over looked because their fun has no ceiling. I remember when you could backstab with xbow.  Also remember backstabbing players post launch and 1 shot them, such epic times.  I had amazing duels with even scouts, good scout always had me but mostly it was my thief coming out on top. I also even trained thievery on another thief and ran through known farming camps and stole from the looters.  In shadowbane you increased INT and trained thievery skill and more you trained better you were at stealing, I could steal massive amounts of gold.  Not only that I stole from even mobs and kept going, I stole runes from mobs right beside ppl trying to kill mobs.  I vaguely recall stealing a bane scroll from a enemy whose was traveling to drop the stone on a tree... a well played thief was so much fun imo it was one of the best classes in SB for solo play and it needs to be a standalone class with powers of its own in CF.  Not everyone is going to be in guilds or have friends to call upon at any given time, some of us will be errand type of player, even tho its a pvp game if you're on the campaign map to pvp but nations are rolling in multi man groups... uh yeah you're killing no one for loot, but a thief could make plays.  I used sea dogs rest and often just played thief, I stole weapons and armor from honers, runes, gold everything. I remember sitting in a city by the banker waiting for players to recall to bank their goods and stealing int of the gods and escaping.

Thief needs to be completely stealth focused, meaning it can hide and stay hidden and do it quickly. Also needs escape based powers to allow it to evade enemies quickly. It needs to be able to use ranged or melee, needs to be able to steal, and have dmg burst coming out of stealth.  Thief needs to be the class that gets bonus's by using stealth in battle as much as possible.  It could even have a (knock out/stun)disable power which disables enemy from attacking or healing or casting for 3 seconds.  I think making it a discipline will be boring and undesirable because only so much can be done with that and thief role has so many possibilities in a game that has little confinement and is a open world pvp game. It would need its own armor there possibly are endless there as well and surely could have some amazing LA outfits. It will def making mole hunter a very desired rune.

Thief is fun for the thief but with very limited counter play how fun is it for the people you stole from?  I agree playing a thief was fantastic.  Having something stolen from you and being unable to stop it, or even interact with it all, is not a good game system.  There was nothing worse than having track and knowing a thief was stealing from you but bc you couldn’t reveal (as only a scout can) then there was literally nothing you could do.  That’s not a very good mechanic.  This isn’t 2003 and purposely poorly made socks mechanics have no place in 2020. 
 

I’d like to see a thief discipline come into CF but it’s need to be included in the available counter play loops that CF prides itself on instead of just being 100% shenanigans for one player.  Mole hunter isn’t enough of a counter play system btw. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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On 8/29/2019 at 3:14 AM, vandarr said:

Bah. In the world of MMOs, rangers are just another form of hippies.

Trigger hippies, they are the worst

 

A meaningful thief major discipline is what I would like to see: one that would give the possibility to loot bags 

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a thief disc could be possible, would require counter play tho, some sort of early anti thief nodes in the passive training along with the disc itself being somewhere late in the talent tree so we dont have thieves stealing with impunity at the start

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If perception vs stealth was a passive thing that happened automatically, without the thief knowing he'd been revealed, then I could see allowing thieves to pick the pockets of enemy players; but Stealth in CF isn't concealment or being the grey man with a chance for someone to notice you, you are *invisible* and only active skill use will reveal you.

That kind of continuous stealth/perception gameplay is either hugely server intensive (especially in cities) or highly exploitable.

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On 2/8/2020 at 7:42 AM, mandalore said:

Thief is fun for the thief but with very limited counter play how fun is it for the people you stole from?  I agree playing a thief was fantastic.  Having something stolen from you and being unable to stop it, or even interact with it all, is not a good game system.  There was nothing worse than having track and knowing a thief was stealing from you but bc you couldn’t reveal (as only a scout can) then there was literally nothing you could do.  That’s not a very good mechanic.  This isn’t 2003 and purposely poorly made socks mechanics have no place in 2020. 
 

I’d like to see a thief discipline come into CF but it’s need to be included in the available counter play loops that CF prides itself on instead of just being 100% shenanigans for one player.  Mole hunter isn’t enough of a counter play system btw. 

You could reveal with a AoE in precise stance. If thief used steal power he revealed himself, you hit AoE as he is recasting sneak, got him. You normally just asked in guild for scout to come out. That or recall bring scout out yourself. However didn’t matter if he did steal from you because odds are if you were actually solo he was backstabbing you and pk’ing you. Unless you were on a character a thief couldn’t defeat and there were plenty... in that case him probably would move on. I never had problems with theives when farming. They came close they would get hit with a AoE, then get a nasty DoT.

Thief wasn’t a game breaker, it had its strengths and weaknesses and perks. Players could ninja your disc drops, gold, vorg etc. on bunch of other classes with stealth. All rogues had equal stealth mechanic. 

Also what made SB such a unique and outstanding game, every class was different. A game like crowfall nor shadowbane will have strong balance, only counters. This is a game once guild system arrives and game launches you will have nations completely dominating the map. Its play to crush, that says it all. No one wants to play classes that are all manufactured/designed in same mold. It will feel lifeless if the classes don’t have a vibe/playstyle completely different from next. 

It comes down to simple fact you have a strange dislike for a thief class. But fact is it was one of the most enjoyable classes in shadowbane for same reasons it would also be in crowfall. There are plenty of classes yet to enter the game, all of them will have their counter. A scout and a thief would be the mains of a lot of players. They were both fun, they both fit in well in gvg/pvp game, they were mean’t for this archetype.
 

Also lets face it, crowfall playerbase will be niche crowd. Its not going to be a forgiving game, will it be balanced? probably not. The bulk of players here were bulk of players in shadowbane. This gameplay/ruleset is their jam, thief and scout fit in with crowfall like peanut butter and jelly to sliced bread.

Possibilities are big for those two classes. Also hope more stealth based classes find there way into crowfall... a nightstalker rip would be amazing addition as well. Shadowbane has alot of great concept laying unused, hopefully crowfall continues to capitalize.  

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1 hour ago, RetroRelapse said:

You could reveal with a AoE in precise stance. If thief used steal power he revealed himself, you hit AoE as he is recasting sneak, got him. You normally just asked in guild for scout to come out. That or recall bring scout out yourself. However didn’t matter if he did steal from you because odds are if you were actually solo he was backstabbing you and pk’ing you. Unless you were on a character a thief couldn’t defeat and there were plenty... in that case him probably would move on. I never had problems with theives when farming. They came close they would get hit with a AoE, then get a nasty DoT.

Thief wasn’t a game breaker, it had its strengths and weaknesses and perks. Players could ninja your disc drops, gold, vorg etc. on bunch of other classes with stealth. All rogues had equal stealth mechanic. 

Also what made SB such a unique and outstanding game, every class was different. A game like crowfall nor shadowbane will have strong balance, only counters. This is a game once guild system arrives and game launches you will have nations completely dominating the map. Its play to crush, that says it all. No one wants to play classes that are all manufactured/designed in same mold. It will feel lifeless if the classes don’t have a vibe/playstyle completely different from next. 

It comes down to simple fact you have a strange dislike for a thief class. But fact is it was one of the most enjoyable classes in shadowbane for same reasons it would also be in crowfall. There are plenty of classes yet to enter the game, all of them will have their counter. A scout and a thief would be the mains of a lot of players. They were both fun, they both fit in well in gvg/pvp game, they were mean’t for this archetype.
 

Also lets face it, crowfall playerbase will be niche crowd. Its not going to be a forgiving game, will it be balanced? probably not. The bulk of players here were bulk of players in shadowbane. This gameplay/ruleset is their jam, thief and scout fit in with crowfall like peanut butter and jelly to sliced bread.

Possibilities are big for those two classes. Also hope more stealth based classes find there way into crowfall... a nightstalker rip would be amazing addition as well. Shadowbane has alot of great concept laying unused, hopefully crowfall continues to capitalize.  

I loved playing thief.  I liked being able to play a class to screw over unsuspecting people.

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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On 3/23/2019 at 10:22 AM, mandalore said:

CF is basically SB 2 with some tweaks.  In SB there was one class, thief, who could steal from players inventories but not their equipped items. 

 

Without a tracking mechanism to help counter it, stealing would be way too strong.  

 Crowfall is not basically SB 2. 

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On 8/26/2019 at 10:13 PM, Jah said:

I’d love to see Thief and Scout classes added. Hard to imagine that happening before launch though, so I put my hopes on disciplines.

I honestly think one of crowfall's stregths of design in comparison to shadowbane is its lower number of classes and subsclasses and higher reliance on disciplines. It makes counterplays a bit easier to work out, and the major disc system in CF is a bit more freeform whichis good for build diversity and easier to extend over time piecemeal.

A class comes with it a certain amount of design baggage, as not only does a new class have to justify its existance in comparison to classes with similar roles, but it also needs to be able to fill out a combat bar on its own, fill out multiple subclasses with different spins on that role, AND be compatible with CF's implementation of discs. In CF that design baggage also includes "how does this class engage with combat differently than other classes through its theme and resource mechanics?"

Given crowfall's existing design, scout and thief seem to me better candidates for majors than classes as the identity of those roles is built around very narrow use abilities. Thieves pickpocket, scouts track. its hard to justify an entire class template built around those mechanisms given the existing implementations of ranger, assassin, and duelist having a monopoly on all of the combat niches one would expect from such templates.

Bard, on the other hand, seems like a solid candidate for class as its role is far more broad as "supportive rogue" that has a lot of room for interpretation and subclasses. There are a lot of directions and abilities that could fit in to that mold, and none of them are currently occupied by an existing class. At best clerics have a couple channelled buffs, but their purpose is primarily as healers rather than support buffs/debuffs one typically thinks of with a bard.

There's room in the concept of bard for a central mechanic to build a class around (call and response actions? Combining abilities to get an effect? Some kind of morale mechanic?) that feels and plays differently from existing classes in combat, but I don't think there's the same room for scout or thief archetypes who are largely defined by single narrow noncombat purposes.

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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