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jst4kix

REMOVE TIME TRAINING.

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Posted (edited)

The whole account time training is absolutely stupid. I log in i set my account to train i log out because Im not wasting my time playing a game where i am already far behind the other people. I forget about the game for awhile come back, Have to many points in one tree. Move to another tree.. repeat process.  A month later have absolutely no desire to play.

This is one of the worst ideas i have seen in a mmo. I despise the rate of which this game is being developed and the place it is currently going. 

Can i get a refund?

Edited by jst4kix

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10 minutes ago, jst4kix said:

5 minutes of my time is just as valuable today as tomorrow. The fact that the game values the logging in and clicking train more then me actually playing is stupid. Idle Hero's? 

It doesn't? 

It just enhances in-game activities over time. I'm not sure where this notion that it's pointless to play the game before having skills trained comes from, it's poorly thought out. Sure, at the moment you are behind in the training curve because there are none of the planned catch-up mechanics in place. But considering everyone starts from the same point, say after a skills wipe or the launch of the game, the relative power gained from spending 5 minutes harvesting trees with no skills will be almost literally the same as the relative power gained from hitting trees months down the line. 

The 5 minutes you spend today will be the same in terms of your relative power gain between yourself and other players as it will be tomorrow in the long run. 

But maybe this form of thinking is too advanced. 

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37 minutes ago, jst4kix said:

The whole account time training is absolutely stupid. I log in i set my account to train i log out because Im not wasting my time playing a game where i am already far behind the other people. I forget about the game for awhile come back, Have to many points in one tree. Move to another tree.. repeat process.  A month later have absolutely no desire to play.

This is one of the worst ideas i have seen in a mmo. I despise the rate of which this game is being developed and the place it is currently going. 

Can i get a refund?

😭

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The catch up mechanic are not in place yet but I sort of agree with you to a point. I would like to see combat passive training to be removed and players get to only choose either crafting or gathering, they can then choose both if they are VIP. All the lost combat points you would gain through the training could then be added to the talent tree. Then everyone can be combat trained and its upto the player if they would like to do gathering/crafting or both as their profession. 

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I would really like the idea of play-based skills as well. This could work within the current system too. If you harvest ore you would gain points in mining, if you use the blacksmith discipline you get points for it, etc.

Though the current system does have a lot of benefits as well. Even people who do not have a lot of time can advance even when they are not able to play. The main issue is not being able to catch up with people that have been playing longer. I think there was post about this though. Something about them putting a system to do just that in later.

Ultimately, I think a combination of the two would probably work out for the best. You would gain points when you play based on what you actually do in the game, then you gain passive points as well to spend on whatever you want.

I do not really like the idea of limiting players by using the VIP function, it should be a boost, not a must have addition to the game. Which it would be if you locked out whole skill trees behind a pay-wall. It is a very dangerous game for to play especially with this whole micro-transaction controversy. 

As for wanting to the quit the whole game over it, I would definitely wait it out. Go play on the TEST server to test out classes and look at new features. Some of the stuff they have is pretty amazing. If you need help with certain aspects of the game there are tons of people willing to help. Like me :)

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2 hours ago, jst4kix said:

why waste your time harvesting trees for 3 wood when you can wait for a day or two and then harvest 10+ 

You can harvest well in spring without any training. Skill training doesn't affect the acquisition of gold or the prices of goods. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, jst4kix said:

The whole account time training is absolutely stupid. I log in i set my account to train i log out because Im not wasting my time playing a game where i am already far behind the other people. I forget about the game for awhile come back, Have to many points in one tree. Move to another tree.. repeat process.  A month later have absolutely no desire to play.

This is one of the worst ideas i have seen in a mmo. I despise the rate of which this game is being developed and the place it is currently going. 

Can i get a refund?

Welcome (back) to the forums.

It might be useful to understand that the passive skill training system is only one of several parts of the game that contribute to character stats and abilities (like vessels, levels, talents, discipline-runes, equipment, consumables). Other than talents or discipline runes for example (which unlock abilities and can only be achieved by active playing), skills only provide supplementary bonusses. They need to be understood as a form of gaining general experience with your soul in combat and crafting and nature studies over time, that will enable you to do better, no matter what body you use.

Besides the accumulation principle (gathering skill points for several days, so no need to be online the moment a skill is done) the skill system will also include catch-up mechanics after release, provided by tradeable skill tomes (players can put unused skill points into tomes and trade them with others).

All of this put together, there should be no significant problem for people who want to solely focus on active gameplay in the final game.

 

Regarding refunds: Refund policies depend on your national laws. If in doubt, contact support@crowfall.com. Tell them from where you are, which package you bought, the date you did it and which country you live in/are citizen of.

Besides that you can always sell retired backer bundles to the officially trusted traders anhex.com and markeedragon.com. You can find more informations about that in the FAQ -> trusted traders.

 

Have fun, good luck

Kraahk

Edited by Kraahk

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1 hour ago, Extintor said:

Well, I'll ask ACE to remove the active progression because that's not what I bought back in the day. I bought a game with time based passive training. I guess nobody will be completely happy at the end. :)

Yea, the original concept was all passive training - with the addition of active vessel leveling as a compromise we can all be equally unhappy 😉


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6 hours ago, jst4kix said:

Can i get a refund?

Understand what you are buying before handing money over to others.

If anything the passive system is much less important than it was originally presented. Before it was almost everything gated behind time. Now it's more of enhancement to what you can already do in-game actively. Crafting/harvesting benefit from passive training a decent amount but combat is just a few more stats.

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Just like Eve, people who start later will end up with less skill points, but you will still be effective  in a group.

 

Passive skills are great for people who can not play that much, it lets them keep up.

  

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While the level grind is annoying to me just by virtue of existing, it hasn’t taken us more than 24 hours to level a new vessel after it was created.

As for skill training disparity, while it’s there, it’s not really that big a deal outside of the inherently broken issues we already have outside of it. (Armor mitigation is too strong a stat choice at the moment)

You can gather the vast majority of what’s needed on day one with tools, gear, disciplines, and buffs - all things an organized group can quickly provide. Training takes some of the difficulty edge off and improves your returns - but it’s not make or break for whether the activity is worth doing. Additionally one of the most important gathering items - ethereal dust - can be gathered immediately with no training. There’s no reason to wait to gather til you have training, gathering is pretty much always a net gain.

Crafting has some build up to it based on training and does suffer a bit from “catching up”, tho we still utilize craters at the lower end of the curve to fill consumable needs, lower quality gear, and filler parts. Some crafting gear (particularly jewelery and crafting build vessels) can help folks hit well above their skill training. The curve difference is most obvious in crafting but even then the real grind is going from green quality to max blue and purple quality.

Combat wise most of the power comes from gear followed by skills followed by vessel. Knowing the strong discipline and class combos of the current meta with decent green or blue gear is more important than having the skills.

That all said, the passive skill training system is not about depth. You will catch up in an area with focused training, time mostly gains you breadth and the ability to engage in other areas, outside of combat, not additive power. 


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Keep up? You have to pay extra to keep up. It's a different form of pay to win. VIP status will have to be maintained full time to be competitive in all areas from crafting to combat. Say what you want it just a money grab. You can passively fall farther behind every day unless your paying. In which case you still have to wait. 

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Currently VIP doesn’t provide anything, we’re waiting to see what it will do in the future. 

Even then the first version of VIP didn’t have multiplicative effects (you couldn’t train 2 combat trees for example thus you never were behind if you were also training combat) it just mimicked owning multiple accounts and made it convienent to do multiple things on one account instead of two.

Additionally there are hard caps on how deep you can train, you will catch up in a specific area. Power comes from training depth, breadth expands your possible activity areas, which can also be accomplished with multiple accounts. The intention is that you can’t just be an expert at everything on one account to encourage playing with people. You’ll need to play with other people and select at least some initial focus.

The thing about passive skill training is that it curbs some people’s time advantage by removing the ability to just grind your way to whatever cap. It insures that everyone requires the same amount of time to reach a certain level versus it being entirely based on you ability to spend time and grind out repetitive actions. Which is part of why a large chunk of the audience doesn’t like the vessel leveling system, it’s just an extra grind we have to do so we can “really” start playing. If the entire game was like that you turn the majority of the content into a grinding endeavor and drastically skew rewarding folks with more time to play.

That all said it’s possible Crowfall is not the game for you if you don’t like these mechanics. And that’s okay, not every game appeals to everyone - if Crowfall changes to what you prefered a large portion of us would probably not want to play it anymore and if they did that I’d be disappointed but that would be okay.

There is not one “true” audience for a game, there are many that overlap and while some of us may overlap enough to draw our interest to Crowfall, there may be some areas that simply do not overlap at all for the game and may drive us apart.


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24 minutes ago, jst4kix said:

Keep up? You have to pay extra to keep up. It's a different form of pay to win. VIP status will have to be maintained full time to be competitive in all areas from crafting to combat. Say what you want it just a money grab. You can passively fall farther behind every day unless your paying. In which case you still have to wait. 

Totally untrue.


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