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nerion

Elementalist needs to be removed/reworked

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Posted (edited)

Elementalist is a discipline that completely negates the damage type for about half the players in the game. It is commonly used as a response to the heavy damage of siege weapons which are almost impossible to handle without this discipline during sieges. This makes its usage almost universal at sieges.

 

There are disciplines which are structured as hard counters . Mudman, Militant Mage, and Scarecrow function in a similar way to Elementalist but are isolated to very specific types of damage. Most classes can change weapons or have options for damage that are not elemental. Clerics and Confessors have no other options so this further exacerbates the issue. If any ability does fire damage then you can not change it to do non-elemental. Most classes have at least some options or paths to change their damage type.

 

This is not a Meta issue because it affects three different types of damage.I am a heal/tank Cleric but I feel bad for anyone who plays a DPS Cleric or Confessor. Please split this Discipline or remove it. 

 

Edited by nerion

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Yep this skill is a major issue.  It currently counters templars divine light , confessors, druids except for their nature dmg, clerics , all the elemental quivers  , the electric banner & not sure what else I'm missing.  The even bigger kick to the face is stacking it with the reflect since you'll be healing and doing dps at the same time.  If they want to keep this skill the way it is they should make it act like haunt debuff after 6 attacks the skill is removed or like the templars fault finding where it stops applying sin after a certain amount of attacks. Numbers can be tweaked after but currently its 15s? of a elemental immunity basically.

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn’t consider it broke unless it’s absorbing damage types outside of elemental damage. If it’s only elemental then it’s only a counter to 3 types. 

Edited by oneply

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, nerion said:

Elementalist is a discipline that completely negates the damage type for about half the players in the game. It is commonly used as a response to the heavy damage of siege weapons which are almost impossible to handle without this discipline during sieges. This makes its usage almost universal at sieges.

 

There are disciplines which are structured as hard counters . Mudman, Militant Mage, and Scarecrow function in a similar way to Elementalist but are isolated to very specific types of damage. Most classes can change weapons or have options for damage that are not elemental. Clerics and Confessors have no other options so this further exacerbates the issue. If any ability does fire damage then you can not change it to do non-elemental. Most classes have at least some options or paths to change their damage type.

 

This is not a Meta issue because it affects three different types of damage.I am a heal/tank Cleric but I feel bad for anyone who plays a DPS Cleric or Confessor. Please split this Discipline or remove it. 

 

@thomasblair and @mhalashace are the devs behind powers, disc, classes, races. 

Elementalist impacts way too many specs even if its just fire (9). 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)

It’s a ridiculous hard counter to elemental damage at this time and has drastically shifted the entire meta to compensate. It’s unique in that it didn’t just add onto the mitigation aspect of the game like other disciplines did (and will inherently get rebalances with any adjustments to mitigation’s) but it entirely negates every elemental damage and heals up whatever damage made it to boot. Combined with heavy healing to cover the cooldown gaps this single discipline ability almost entirely negates the elemental damage classes in group combat.

The fact that blobs don’t even care if they are standing in elemental AoE sinc the CD will come back around and save them before they could die form it or worse even run into it on purpose shows the discipline is having far too strong an influence on player decisions.

Edited by Duffy

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11 minutes ago, Duffy said:

It’s a ridiculous hard counter to elemental damage at this time and has drastically shifted the entire meta to compensate. It’s unique in that it didn’t just add onto the mitigation aspect of the game like other disciplines did (and will inherently get rebalances with any adjustments to mitigation’s) but it entirely negates every elemental damage and heals up whatever damage made it to boot. Combined with heavy healing to cover the cooldown gaps this single discipline ability almost entirely negates the elemental damage classes in group combat.

The fact that blobs don’t even care if they are standing in elemental AoE sinc the CD will come back around and save them before they could die form it or worse even run into it on purpose shows the discipline is having far too strong an influence on player decisions.

You should comment this on the same thread I made in dev partner.  Need more voices to get blair to move on it. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)

elementalist DOES NOT affect attacks adjusted made by the electric banner, so just run standard bearer and youll be A-ok

 

Edit: unless blairmath kicked in it does not, then again with blairmath theres always the possibility of it being weird 

Edited by Staff

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Staff said:

elementalist DOES NOT affect attacks adjusted made by the electric banner

Is that intentional though? 

@vkromas

If Standard Bearer converts damage into electric should electric resistance and electric absorb effects then impact the converted damage? 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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25 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Is that intentional though? 

@vkromas

If Standard Bearer converts damage into electric should electric resistance and electric absorb effects then impact the converted damage? 

lol

 

If they rework Elementalist they will also need to take a look at siege equipment dmg on players.

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Posted (edited)

Did you guys forget that last stream @thomasblair told us types were being simplified across the board alongside the next armor update?

That likely means MORE broad coverage counter discs, not LESS.

I'd stop using "mudman etc. is OK because its only one damage type" as of now and start considering that elementalist's utility is likely deliberate (though probably unintended in terms of siege damage interactions) and that you're more likely to see nature and physical versions with similar utility than you are to see elementalist's broad counter be removed.

The "rework" of such discs isn't going to be making them counter less stuff. Elementalist specifically was created because the previous incarnation of he disc was too narrow to be attractive.

The individual power numbers/effects will likely change, and you'll probably see more avenues for altering your own damage type, but I'd expect to see phys damage have a similar disc to be annoyed at before seeing elementalist counter less templates.

Edited by PopeUrban

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2 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Did you guys forget that last stream @thomasblair told us types were being simplified across the board alongside the next armor update?

That likely means MORE broad coverage counter discs, not LESS.

I'd stop using "mudman etc. is OK because its only one damage type" as of now and start considering that elementalist's utility is likely deliberate (though probably unintended in terms of siege damage interactions) and that you're more likely to see nature and physical versions with similar utility than you are to see elementalist's broad counter be removed.

The "rework" of such discs isn't going to be making them counter less stuff. Elementalist specifically was created because the previous incarnation of he disc was too narrow to be attractive.

The individual power numbers/effects will likely change, and you'll probably see more avenues for altering your own damage type, but I'd expect to see phys damage have a similar disc to be annoyed at before seeing elementalist counter less templates.

I didn't watch the stream, but if that's the case it's going to make for awful Rock Paper Scissors combat imo. 

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Just now, Jjusticar said:

I didn't watch the stream, but if that's the case it's going to make for awful Rock Paper Scissors combat imo. 

You mean good rock paper scissors combat in stead of the awful Rock, Rock, Rock combat we have now?


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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1 hour ago, mandalore said:

Is that intentional though? 

@vkromas

If Standard Bearer converts damage into electric should electric resistance and electric absorb effects then impact the converted damage? 

Unfortunately this is one of those gray areas of design that I'm not completely knowledgeable enough to answer but I'll try to find one soon.

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31 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

... types were being simplified across the board alongside the next armor update?

Thaaaaaat wasn't a thing that was said. The only talk of simplification was in regards to mitigation numbers being represented by an "armor" rating/number. 


Hi, I'm moneda.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, moneda said:

Thaaaaaat wasn't a thing that was said. The only talk of simplification was in regards to mitigation numbers being represented by an "armor" rating/number. 

If that's the case then disregard my entire statement and replace it with "merge the melee counter discs since most elemental classes can't swap their damage type"

The alternative would be alternate damage typing for elemental damage types which seems, like, wrong. I wouldn't wanna see lightning bolts that actually do frost damage etc.

Then add the ability to spike specific type resists on the new hp stat stick replacements rather than the broad nature/elemental/phys/balanced we have now if people wanna spike counter narrow types. God knows there are enough potential resource combinations.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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I want a discipline with a power that curses people when they use a damage immunity or retribution bubble or heal. Throw up the heal from Elementalist or Mudman and when I curse you you take 20% more damage from that type instead of being healed. 😈 


Hi, I'm moneda.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, nerion said:

Elementalist is a discipline that completely negates the damage type for about half the players in the game. It is commonly used as a response to the heavy damage of siege weapons which are almost impossible to handle without this discipline during sieges. This makes its usage almost universal at sieges.

 

There are disciplines which are structured as hard counters . Mudman, Militant Mage, and Scarecrow function in a similar way to Elementalist but are isolated to very specific types of damage. Most classes can change weapons or have options for damage that are not elemental. Clerics and Confessors have no other options so this further exacerbates the issue. If any ability does fire damage then you can not change it to do non-elemental. Most classes have at least some options or paths to change their damage type.

 

This is not a Meta issue because it affects three different types of damage.I am a heal/tank Cleric but I feel bad for anyone who plays a DPS Cleric or Confessor. Please split this Discipline or remove it. 

 

Half the players its like 2 classes Confessors and druids somewhat templars aswell but they can always go holy warrior then drop there fire dmg making it holy instead.

Militiant mages affects more people since majority of players use slashing atm.

im not a huge fan of the super counter disaplines though.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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