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ZombieGandhi

The Gear Power Curve, and What's Needed to be Competitive?

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Often I've heard things such as, "Guild So-and-So has X level of gear, they can't be beat!". It's long had me wondering what in the current iteration of Crowfall is really necessary for people to be competitive at the gear/vessel level of things. In larger keep battles where it might be 50 v. 50, I would assume while gear is helpful, it is perhaps less so than in a small or 1v1 situation, where you don't have all those extra bodies for damage, healing, buffing, etc. 

 

Going from white vessel and gear to green, is such a huge step up. From there, the green to blue, blue to purple, etc, doesn't seem to be quite as striking a difference as simply getting out of white. So, what do people need to show up to the field of battle, and know that their gear is going to do them decently well? I'm curious how this knowledge might help smaller guilds and groups to refine what they're doing, and giving them the confidence to show up for battles, knowing their gear is in the realm of competitive, and what's left is the teamwork aspect. 

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Posted (edited)

TBH blue is "average" across the game by design. Todd/Blair specifically called that out as a design goal a really long time ago on stream. They expect most people to be running around in blues, and blues are the middle of the rarity spectrum.

Green can compete with blue, but it feels handicapped, and might be statistically unviable against people with a splash of purple on a few key pieces depending on the matchup.

In general nobody is running around with a full squad of dudes kitted in full epics and legendaries because the drop rate for those mats makes it nigh impossible to replenish that level of gear at scale.

Vessels are a different story, and you REALLY want to get in at least a green vessel ASAP, but vessels alone won't win you fights with poorly made socksty gear. You simply need that green vessel and the experimentation on its stats to even begin to have a concept of "having a build" in crowfall.

Overall blue+ gear is the realm of "get good" rather than "get gear"

In general, if you couldn't win a fight in blues, you're probably not gonna win the same fight in legendaries unless you nearly murdered each other already.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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23 minutes ago, ZombieGandhi said:

Often I've heard things such as, "Guild So-and-So has X level of gear, they can't be beat!". It's long had me wondering what in the current iteration of Crowfall is really necessary for people to be competitive at the gear/vessel level of things. In larger keep battles where it might be 50 v. 50, I would assume while gear is helpful, it is perhaps less so than in a small or 1v1 situation, where you don't have all those extra bodies for damage, healing, buffing, etc. 

 

Going from white vessel and gear to green, is such a huge step up. From there, the green to blue, blue to purple, etc, doesn't seem to be quite as striking a difference as simply getting out of white. So, what do people need to show up to the field of battle, and know that their gear is going to do them decently well? I'm curious how this knowledge might help smaller guilds and groups to refine what they're doing, and giving them the confidence to show up for battles, knowing their gear is in the realm of competitive, and what's left is the teamwork aspect. 

 

Coming from a purely solo player perspective this campaign I started fresh and as you noted earlier the biggest jump in power was certainly from white to Green, but as I mostly 1vX I've noticed the power creep in each upgrade I've gotten so far. Currently I'm in a Epic Vessel with a mix of Blue and Epic gear and the noticeable difference in toughness was very apparent from Green to Blue Armor and Damage increase from Green to Blue Weapons. 

However, I do feel with the current state of the game and if you are running with a healer you could get away in a small group setting of being in Blue gear and wouldn't notice the difference in gear as much as the gap in skill or team composition.

When I finally cobbled together my first set of Blue gear I actually felt that I had hit a competitive state and the only difference between me and anyone I was fighting in similar or even higher quality gear was skill, numbers, and builds/class. I've never felt disadvantaged due to gear post Blue as a solo player and perhaps the gap is smaller in a group setting with good teamwork and team composition and you can get away with Green, but with so many outlying factors such a Disciplines, Race/Class combination and just pure numbers I would suggest that at Blue gear you are about as equal as you are going to get and can't be more than 5% or so behind.

A few things to note, you need to stat the gear properly and re-roll it to fit your character just having Blue quality stuff that is not stated for you is worse than Green that is stated for you IMO. Also, you need a full set including Jewelry not just Armor and Weapons. I think Vessels are of less importance and as long as you have a Green that is stated for you or a Blue that has decent stats you will be fine.

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Go uncommon armor with rare or epic weapons.  Should keep you competitive without it being too taxing to replace gear. Having a master armor smith will boost that green level armor to nearly blue level.

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Posted (edited)

Blue is the average baseline, tho more specifically it’s the chest and weapons that matter most. You can skimp the quality of other 3 armor pieces if needed. 

There are a few places where maxing jewelry is more important than just having some uncommon to better version, but that is kind of rare.

Ultimately while getting into decent gear is very helpful when comparing head to head, the real secret to success is not just reaching that gear baseline but stacking race, class, and discipline synergies to take advantage of the current meta. Things like building around plate wearers with high burst and half-giant clerics that are impossible to kill solo or in small groups and thus act as force multipliers in a big fight. That’s where most of the difference in “outcomes” is really coming from.

Edited by Duffy

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32 minutes ago, oneply said:

Blues can regularly beat legendaries. The difference if one feels “unkillable” is having chosen the right race discs and attributes on that gear. 

Who y'all fighting in legendaries?

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Posted (edited)

If white gear went back to 6 experimentation pips (one less than green), where it was in 5.6/5.7, the gap from white to green would evaporate.  

Why ACE felt the need to nerf white gear, I don't know. 

It happened around the time they deleted "poor" or "gray" quality drops from the loot tables making R1 to R3 nodes more useful.

Edited by Angelmar

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ZombieGandhi said:

Often I've heard things such as, "Guild So-and-So has X level of gear, they can't be beat!". It's long had me wondering what in the current iteration of Crowfall is really necessary for people to be competitive at the gear/vessel level of things...

Going from white vessel and gear to green, is such a huge step up. From there, the green to blue, blue to purple, etc, doesn't seem to be quite as striking a difference as simply getting out of white. So, what do people need to show up to the field of battle, and know that their gear is going to do them decently well? I'm curious how this knowledge might help smaller guilds and groups to refine what they're doing, and giving them the confidence to show up for battles, knowing their gear is in the realm of competitive, and what's left is the teamwork aspect. 

That is one of the 1st keys Zombie, is having the right infrastructure in your guild. As a singular player, you're useless all Epic'd to the 9's and up if your guild is in green/blue phase. This is where you need to consider allocation of resources and who you gear. 

Top of the pile, crafters, If your BS isn't getting the most points, highest capable vessel/gear/jewelry, then it will reflect in your gear, and the gear of your guild. Every player could simply get the mats needed and roll out in generic-poorly made blue/epics...etc. Top guilds do this 1st, they focus on what is good for all vs what is good for me.

Once you have those systems in place and can craft to the level you desire... going from white to green/blue is the biggest jump you will make period. Blue to Legendary won't be anywhere near as pronounced as the 1st jump you make, so striving to reach legendary will just lead to burn out, and honestly wasted mats that could benefit your system rather than the individual.

This is a guild game first and foremost, and you'll get from it exactly the amount you squeeze. The most important piece of equipment is that little tag next to your name and faction! Find people with your mindset, goals and ambitions

Edited by Allinavi

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Re-ask this question after the new HP model is in place, because that's going to change quite a bit.

Right now with over half HP and all primary mitigation coming from gear, the impact of gear, especially armor, is greatly magnified.

In the pipe are some changes to put more HP gain into vessel leveling, so where that all lands at the end of the day will have a huge impact on what "viable gear" ends up meaning.

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if you aren’t successful in blue gear, it’s time to start looking to something besides gear as the reason.  If you can’t make blue gear by now, you’re doing it wrong on all levels. 

 

Every time I hear the “they are in epics and legendaries”. I just hear “we are bad at this game and refuse to be realistic as to why we lost.”

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Posted (edited)

Also, when it's time to craft that really nice blue set:

Get enough dust to reroll the important pieces. (Right now it's treated steel, sub combines and final reroll) thats 5 large rerolls on chest and 4 for each small.

Potion of Sappho, Bon tippers, Leadership buff and a sumptuous pie. 

There is a huge difference between your average crafted blue set and a max reroll set done to the 9's by a knowledgeable smith using all the tricks of the trade. Take a little extra time and get the little things that all add up

Edited by Chroma

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1 hour ago, Ble said:

if you aren’t successful in blue gear, it’s time to start looking to something besides gear as the reason.  If you can’t make blue gear by now, you’re doing it wrong on all levels. 

 

Every time I hear the “they are in epics and legendaries”. I just hear “we are bad at this game and refuse to be realistic as to why we lost.”

indeed, im in blues with epic weps and ive never felt hopelessly out matched by 1 person in W or HoA despite them all running in all legendarys and using all 500 of their evil balance exploits, however after seeing bunbuns new weapon i feel as though that may change real quick lmao

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17 minutes ago, Staff said:

using all 500 of their evil balance exploits

Speaking of which @Ble what settings are you running for your game footage to be so smooth with all the aoe spam? 

*Disclaimer* Not calling it an exploit just reminded me to ask. 

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I was told max settings run best.  There was also a video about maximizing your graphic settings for crowfall but no idea where that is.  Did that a long time ago.  My comp isn’t that great either.  It’s all about 5 years old (top of the line then) 16g ram, but far inferior to today’s ram and 980ti 6gb

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6 minutes ago, Ble said:

I was told max settings run best.  There was also a video about maximizing your graphic settings for crowfall but no idea where that is.  Did that a long time ago.  My comp isn’t that great either.  It’s all about 5 years old (top of the line then) 16g ram, but far inferior to today’s ram and 980ti 6gb

I will look for this fabled video of graphic optimization of super greatly impressive awesomeness 

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6 hours ago, Angelmar said:

If white gear went back to 6 experimentation pips (one less than green), where it was in 5.6/5.7, the gap from white to green would evaporate.  

Why ACE felt the need to nerf white gear, I don't know. 

It happened around the time they deleted "poor" or "gray" quality drops from the loot tables making R1 to R3 nodes more useful.

this was also when white resources were SUPER cheap(too cheap so no one farmed whites).

I think it would be worth revisiting whites on the power curve, at least 5 pips would be very nice and i'd be fine with 6 as well.

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