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Ble

Paladin (healing) Templar

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20 hours ago, Jjusticar said:

Something like changing their Castigate into Righteous Smash combo to do healing on allied targets instead of damage on enemy targets could be very interesting.  

This sounds really cool. Interesting way to change up the playstyle a little bit, and encourage using a currently rarely used ability in the Templar kit. Maybe sends out a healing wave in like a 5m or 10m range around your character.

I really like the specific role Paladin fills currrently, but I would like just a tad more flexibility for it. It's super good at area healing and it can be just ok in other areas, I think that changing Righteous Smash might do the trick while also opening up some more discipline options due to the insane pip costs of some.

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Posted (edited)

The paladin does not fill a roll currently.  He's outclassed in every way, outside of maybe the ToL room fight which is such a small portion of this games pvp and that moment when he mashes Holy Warrior.  OWPVP is mobile in essence and mobility really shuts the paladin down.   Sorta healy bad DPS and not very tanky all in one is not really a role.

 

I have not been able to find any development wording on what they want him to be, I can only go by the fact that EVERY part of his advanced training is concerning healing/mirrors the other healers.

 

I do like the idea that of Righteous Smash being a heal.

Again, my discussion is talking about the meta, so if you "play for fun" then I'm sure the paladin's in a great spot.

And again again, if you doubt what I say about a paladin's ineptitude, please accept my challenge for a demonstration.

Edited by Ble

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Are Paladin's not off-healers? They just give you passive healing in fights while Druids and Clerics are your main dudes you'll top you off from near-death


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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36 minutes ago, Ble said:

The paladin does not fill a roll currently.  He's outclassed in every way, outside of maybe the ToL room fight which is such a small portion of this games pvp and that moment when he mashes Holy Warrior.  OWPVP is mobile in essence and mobility really shuts the paladin down.   Sorta healy bad DPS and not very tanky all in one is not really a role.

 

I have not been able to find any development wording on what they want him to be, I can only go by the fact that EVERY part of his advanced training is concerning healing/mirrors the other healers.

 

I do like the idea that of Righteous Smash being a heal.

Again, my discussion is talking about the meta, so if you "play for fun" then I'm sure the paladin's in a great spot.

And again again, if you doubt what I say about a paladin's ineptitude, please accept my challenge for a demonstration.

I'll gladly 5v5 when my guys get back from vacation against your 5. Only condition is that we all create basic vessels , with intermediate gear. If you want to do proper testing that is the way it has to be done, any other deviation from base line stats or gear is a waste of time and doesn't represent an accurate test.

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55 minutes ago, coolster50 said:

Are Paladin's not off-healers? They just give you passive healing in fights while Druids and Clerics are your main dudes you'll top you off from near-death

That’s exactly my point.  Thanks.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, TheMap said:

Paladin can attack , use censure and the aoe combo (forget the name) to generate pips. I think its spot on the way its sitting right now, the DPS that can be put out is far better than any healer out there. Paladin isn't supposed to be a main healer, more of a hybrid CC/DPS Healer. I believe Templar is one of the classes that is balanced just right for its role. 

 

 

Censor a right old gripe to land at times, and the chain for pip gen is a double edge sword because if u miss or cant finish or hit your 3 chain combo finisher you loose your pip instead of gaining some and normally people spam there dodge when u stun em, you spend one to gain 1 pip on last hit for each target hit, so if u miss any at all you will be 0 pips AA for awhile (3rd chain auto attack is the attack the gain u pips aswell so if u miss that chain aswell you dont get a pip to use) doesnt help it can be rather hard to stick to somone as a templar aswell.

The problem i have with paladins atm censor being awkward to land successfully (ground targeted skill would be great quality of life change to target where you land) and the other problem is its practically impossible to stick to anyone unless there meleeing u in the face, which realy cuts out devotion being able to heal anyone at all in small scale stuff, ToL room though this isnt an issue due to high tatget enviroment but i feel they need a few small changes for the smaller scale stuff or slight buff to open field so there not useless in that regards other healer should be better though in that regard still.
Like a low dmg range attack that has a somwhat low CD would help with devotion healing in that scenario for example but doesnt change there power in ToL fights.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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2 hours ago, coolster50 said:

Are Paladin's not off-healers? They just give you passive healing in fights while Druids and Clerics are your main dudes you'll top you off from near-death

I think that’s the meta.  Every aspect of the Paladin specific part of their tree is healing and they recently converted all of their heals to go off support power/healing %  when they didn’t before.  They need another base heal and they will be fine.  It just doesn’t feel like it’s finished. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 4:32 AM, ZYBAK said:

 during Tree of Life fights they're able to easily get value out of their uncapped AoE healing and damage. While also racking up insane parry damage with big Devotion heals.


So...Divine Light is capped at 5 targets, same as anything else. Unless you meant something else by 'uncapped AoE healing and damage'

Devotion got capped awhile ago to be a 200Heal tick max(before Healing modifications) No more 2-3k Devotion Heals.




Templar Censure is problematic for sure, there was a time period shortly after they introduced Colossus Smash (the Myrmidon charge) and Templar Censure used the same mechanics...this was wonderful! Please bring that back. 

Censure Talents could be useful as well in the talent trees. Would be nice to see an Armor Break or something else useful associated with it.
Why not swap the completely useless Vindicator Slash Damage on Holy Warrior?
(it does nothing as it does not change caps and Holy Warrior negates your Slash damage bonus anyways)

Paladin is not that bad in open field, they have much less Pip issues than other Templar kits mainly due to the Divine Light not draining them every tick.
Paladin also has exclusive access to the strongest single(double?) burst Heal in the game with Holy Warrior as well.
It does require communication and some awareness but can be quite useful as a Tank/Healer.


I still don't consider Paladin a Full Healer, as I believe the Earthkeeper and Crusader(why is the Heal line the Crusader though?) do it better.
Neither would I consider Paladin a Full Tank as I believe that Pit Fighter and Secutor Knight do this better. Battle Rager is tough to say due to the liability of Berserk in a Physics world.

Paladin is a strong hybrid between the two though.
 


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1 hour ago, Scorn said:


So...Divine Light is capped at 5 targets, same as anything else. Unless you meant something else by 'uncapped AoE healing and damage'

Devotion got capped awhile ago to be a 200Heal tick max(before Healing modifications) No more 2-3k Devotion Heals.
 

I wasn't aware of these changes. When I played Templar last Divine Light healed everyone inside it even if they weren't in the party.

Devotion changes are lame. I really liked how it used to be where you could do some crazy healing if you were putting out good damage.

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I think most people have already hit on the biggest pain points I have seen on the Templar having played it off and on for quite a while.

Mobility remains my biggest gripe and Censure does a really poor job with any sort of change in elevation on terrain because of its forward movement and even getting it to hit a target is difficult at the best of times even with no latency or hitching. Unfortunately not a great gap closer, I'd like to see it become a combo with some other movement ability to address any shortfalls while also addressing the mobility issues.

With the introduction of 5.8 the damage of blazing light damage on the DPS (Vindicator) spec was amazing because it added depth the game by providing area denial. People had to actually coordinate fights and pay close attention to positioning. The devotion cap kind of sucks as it was nice to see some bigger off heals if you played it right, regardless of what spec you went into. Paladin has other heals so limiting this on Paladin would be fine IMO.  

In small scale or open field fights its more difficult to play the Templar correctly as pips can be an issue on anything other than Paladin. When you see a Paladin drop DL you can just move outside of it and starve the other two specs of pips while kiting their LMBs.

 

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On 3/29/2019 at 7:33 AM, ZeFx said:

I think most people have already hit on the biggest pain points I have seen on the Templar having played it off and on for quite a while.

Mobility remains my biggest gripe and Censure does a really poor job with any sort of change in elevation on terrain because of its forward movement and even getting it to hit a target is difficult at the best of times even with no latency or hitching. Unfortunately not a great gap closer, I'd like to see it become a combo with some other movement ability to address any shortfalls while also addressing the mobility issues.

With the introduction of 5.8 the damage of blazing light damage on the DPS (Vindicator) spec was amazing because it added depth the game by providing area denial. People had to actually coordinate fights and pay close attention to positioning. The devotion cap kind of sucks as it was nice to see some bigger off heals if you played it right, regardless of what spec you went into. Paladin has other heals so limiting this on Paladin would be fine IMO.  

In small scale or open field fights its more difficult to play the Templar correctly as pips can be an issue on anything other than Paladin. When you see a Paladin drop DL you can just move outside of it and starve the other two specs of pips while kiting their LMBs.

 

Making Censor a ground targeted ability i feel would go a long way to helping the reliability of Censure which is doesnt have atm


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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12 hours ago, veeshan said:

Making Censor a ground targeted ability i feel would go a long way to helping the reliability of Censure which is doesnt have atm

I'd like to see how censure works with the new character controller and with less lag/hitching before changing how it works. I really like the concept of how it works at the moment, it's super smooth in terms of adding it into combos. I think adding an extra step of ground targeting could just result in kind of a clunky spell when you are trying to make quick movement decisions.

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I find the paladin heals can be better than cleric or Druid, depending on situations.  If you are hitting 3 or more targets with each swing of your great sword, the healing is substantial.

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hello i am new i would like play paladin but i dont know his mechanic mean he healing group members if atacking or what?

then witch stat is optimal for him ATK 100, dex 40, int 100, stamina 100, health 50 ???

and what stats i must LF? crit hit, crit shance etc. 

can some bady help me thx u

 


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He's a healer, so your primary stat is spirit until (when geared) you're at 2000 sp.  At that point, Int becomes your next priority.  Int works very well for paladins since you can make use of all 3 stats that it gives to you (crit heal amount, crit dmg amount and heal mod).

 

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ty .. i have one more question i have first specialisation Bard (i like it) what else i need ?  mean rune (i am full plate) 

1st major ..... Bard

2st major ..... ???

1st minor ..... sup bonus with plate

2 st minor ..... ???

3 st minor ..... ???

 

 


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There are lots of good options, Field Surgeon, Pixie and Friar are great.  Bard is horrible, I'd not use that one.

For minors, Fashion Statement and Expansive mind are my choices.  To make use of your extra passive slot, you'll have to take a 3rd that gives you some passive to slot, or you can forgo that and take Hand of Glory for an extra ring - although those stats have been severely nerfed lately.

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Posted (edited)

I dont agree that this class should be on par with the other two choices in any case at all. The point of the class in the SLIGHTEST sense is a hybrid class or "jack of all trades" in a sense. I do not mean to be rude or burn ya bud, but if you have played classes like this since 1999, you would know that any changes like this, apart from tweaking of course would make the templar even more of a balance problem, it is ALREADY strong, just not in group pvp. That is the intention of hybrids and has always been in pvp games. Ya you cant do this...but you can do THIS that the other two cannot do. For example solo with such finesse or literally 1vs3-5 people or some such non sense because thats what these types of classes have ALWAYS done in games like these. It has never been different and never will be. The only time this case has not applied to this scenario is when the game is COMPLETELY skill based in every facet like Asherons Call, thats a great example of what I mean. I feel you, you love this class and you found something you like, however, the answer is NOT to buff the class to be good at group combat AS WELL. That would be absurd in the general sense that I mentioned before and what traditional hardcore pvp mmorpgs have always done. I do appreciate the feedback and giving your opinion on the matter because this IS a test game and people need to do just that and write about it in THESE forums. Applause for the effort, just not for the content ^_^.

Edited by morgan4u

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, morgan4u said:

I dont agree that this class should be on par with the other two choices in any case at all. The point of the class in the SLIGHTEST sense is a hybrid class or "jack of all trades" in a sense. I do not mean to be rude or burn ya bud, but if you have played classes like this since 1999, you would know that any changes like this, apart from tweaking of course would make the templar even more of a balance problem, it is ALREADY strong, just not in group pvp. That is the intention of hybrids and has always been in pvp games. Ya you cant do this...but you can do THIS that the other two cannot do. For example solo with such finesse or literally 1vs3-5 people or some such non sense because thats what these types of classes have ALWAYS done in games like these. It has never been different and never will be. The only time this case has not applied to this scenario is when the game is COMPLETELY skill based in every facet like Asherons Call, thats a great example of what I mean. I feel you, you love this class and you found something you like, however, the answer is NOT to buff the class to be good at group combat AS WELL. That would be absurd in the general sense that I mentioned before and what traditional hardcore pvp mmorpgs have always done. I do appreciate the feedback and giving your opinion on the matter because this IS a test game and people need to do just that and write about it in THESE forums. Applause for the effort, just not for the content ^_^.

There are two basic perspectives.  People who "play what they like" and people who "play whats meta".  I'm from the 2nd.  I want this to be meta. 

 

It cannot  be meta for two reasons: Vs. competent players, it cannot heal enough, nor can it self heal enough.  It has a large self heal, but that is on a long cooldown.  The only other self heal is Divine Light which is pretty good, and devotion which is capped and horrible.  If @thomasblair would uncap devotion for Paladins, the class would have a chance. 

 

Secondly, the entire Templar class has mobility issues, the ult does not change or is not enhanced for the Paladin and is pretty horrible.  6 seconds of +30% speed and immunity to movement CC after censure would fix this.

 

The class is very easy to kill given the meta (breaking Block/Parry is part of meta composition).  The class does well in PvE since it can do damage, and healing is barely a requirement anyways.  It's a "fun" class to play, just not a competitive one.

The class is said to excel in small areas.  In reality, the class can heal about as well as other class in very confined places, but other classes do fine in confined places as well as open area and also have mobility and or group heal under pressure.

 

So its fine that you disagree with me, but if you are doing so from the meta perspective, I'll ask you to prove it.

I don't really think the dev's have a grasp on balance or even understand their classes, so I also do not expect this to change.

Edited by Ble

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