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Ble

Paladin (healing) Templar

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I agree with Ble, I’d take a Cleric over a Paladin any day. Paladins are too limiting all around, not enough mobility and not enough healing, making them a weak choice in the current meta overall.

Still fun in some scenarios and PvE, but I’ve stopped recommending them as a healer option. Cleric is default, Druid is second tho Druid has a higher skill ceiling.


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1 hour ago, Ble said:

There are two basic perspectives.  People who "play what they like" and people who "play whats meta".  I'm from the 2nd.  I want this to be meta. 

 

It cannot  be meta for two reasons: Vs. competent players, it cannot heal enough, nor can it self heal enough.  It has a large self heal, but that is on a long cooldown.  The only other self heal is Divine Light which is pretty good, and devotion which is capped and horrible.  If @thomasblair would uncap devotion for Paladins, the class would have a chance. 

 

Secondly, the entire Templar class has mobility issues, the ult does not change or is not enhanced for the Paladin and is pretty horrible.  6 seconds of +30% speed and immunity to movement CC after censure would fix this.

 

The class is very easy to kill given the meta (breaking Block/Parry is part of meta composition).  The class does well in PvE since it can do damage, and healing is barely a requirement anyways.  It's a "fun" class to play, just not a competitive one.

The class is said to excel in small areas.  In reality, the class can heal about as well as other class in very confined places, but other classes do fine in confined places as well as open area and also have mobility and or group heal under pressure.

 

So its fine that you disagree with me, but if you are doing so from the meta perspective, I'll ask you to prove it.

I don't really think the dev's have a grasp on balance or even understand their classes, so I also do not expect this to change.

Well there in lies the fallacy, meta is a concept, it is a collective opinion, not a fact. They are broken all the time and new Metas are introducted. Maybe they learned from other games not to give classes like this "increased mobility" or "insane healing" because that would literally make it TO overpowered in MOST areas. No one would play anything but Templar. I play what is meta as well I'm right there with you, giving this class more healing or more movement, 2 very powerful things is unreasonable. The only thing I would change at all in this situation is like someone said earlier in the post and change either the defense or parry mechanic, or maybe have it to where the non  healing tree can have shield to, or even the healing tree HAVE shield but sac something else. Know what though? It would be even stronger in the other areas previously mentioned. The class has a role atm where as some classes like the knight for example literally and ONLY pulls. The templar has MORE HP than the knight ffs. Point is its already meta thats the thing, its just not meta for what you want it for, which would make it overpowered. It's understandable, what you want and your opinons. The way it seems now, other classes are in much worse areas and templar is in an "ok" spot, and imo I'd even call it overpowered. Playing these games so long to though, its not "really" overpowered its just the way the classes like this are designed. Hybrids are ALWAYS very strong at first, most of the time game breaking, and fall off toward more development. The problem atleast in my past experience with playing classes like this, like your experiencing now, is they spike and dip because of rebalance. I do enjoy the conversation I appreciate your objections ^_^

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I know you asked me to prove this to you but I'll be up front. I dont have a blue'd out templar or anything of that nature, I've leveled a white vessel and that to be is just not good enough for testing. I'm talking about the class as a concept and a whole in the general sense and I'm putting past experience from many hardcore pvp games in there. My whole point was if your unhappy with this class at the moment, rebalancing these types of classes is very diffucult because a smidge could literally tip it over the edge. So play something else for now?

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Posted (edited)

Not asking for insane healing.  Not asking for lots of mobility either.  6 seconds of 30% speed increase and movement protection every 25 seconds isn't that much.   Two "very powerful things" COULD be unreasonable.  But these items that I requested are not "very powerful".

Question: Do you even understand how devotion works?  I'm not sure I can argue the merits of that change if you do not understand that this is not "insane" healing by any means.

I'm not interested in classes in an "ok spot".  It's ok if you think that classes need to be in an "ok spot" but to me, an "ok spot" is worthless.  I don't think that total balance will ever be achieved, but this class (Paladin, specifically - Vindicator has had power semi recently) has been in an "ok spot" for a looooooooooong time.

It's becoming quite apparent that you do not know what you are talking about when you talk about the meta, since you cannot even field a blue vessel.  This doesn't mean you're a bad person or bad player, but you cannot possibly know what a class feels like in a competitive environment when you're playing basic vessel.  I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but mine comes from ACTUAL FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE, not conjecture like yours.

I'm not "unhappy" with the class, I don't get emotional about it.  I am a healer, I play all 3 hearler classes and I would like to also be able to play this one in a competitive scenario, of which you have no experience.  It's ok if  they dont want to change it, just as its ok for me to express my opinions about the need for some small changes.

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Edited by Ble

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So Paladins are just OK healers, maybe that's intended. But rather than making the Paladin just as good at healing as a cleric, ACE should IMO beef up Paladin's support powers in other ways, like when a Paladin Retaliates from stun or knockdown, every ally in a 10m radius could get a retaliate too, or reset their timers if they're still up. That Castigate attack could combo into a 15m radius DoT debuff instead of a weak AoE attack or a heal.

Mobility is definitely poor for Templars, and they should be more mobile than any other tank class, since templars were envisioned as the "Dodge Tank" class. They don't even carry shields FFS, and 2-handed weapons are most effective for skirmishers rather than massed troops in ancient warfare. So that dodge should be a go-to power for Templars. Giving the templar a free pip every time he dodges should make him seem more mobile, build pips faster, and be more survivable in the long run. A pip for each dodge should let templars start most fights with a full board, but I don't think that's OP.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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My issue with Paladin is how it has less healing powers in its base kit than the other two base healing specs.  It needs one more power (that scales with healing modifier and support from the start) that heals or helps support so it has the same amount of base powers as the other two.  Once it’s on equal ground power wise we can see where it sits balance wise.  When they added support power scaling and it’s ghetto smart target rescue it was a step in the right direction but it needs a little more to be on par.  It needs a fire and forget heal to compensate for its lack of mobility (something like illuminate without the added resource). 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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hey crow i need help with my paladin disc. and gear

i am using dis. Bard and troubadour / finish him, sustaining note, matching plate.

i will change troubadour for shield breaker what minor dis i need it ? and what equip stats (boots, hand, head, and chest, weapon) 

 

ty for help.

 


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You’ve picked two of worst majors in the game.  You’ll be largely ineffective in PvP and in PvE nothing matters as far as gear/discs, so pick anything.

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i dont thing i pick bad discipline and character my role is suport i dont need be strong female character. i thing if i give all party members  Armor Penetration by 15, Combat Health Regen by 32, Attack Power by 75 and Support Power by 75, Reduces Damage Taken by 5%, do something no nothing


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Posted (edited)

Ok, sounds good.  Are you a human?  If yes, Id run Fashion Statement, Twisting and Expansive mind.

Edited by Ble

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Posted (edited)

hey crow thank u for help. i take for my human paladin discipline shield breaker and friar. What minor discipline need it now?  

1. MATCHING PLATE  (Increases your Support Power by 100 when wearing a full set of non-basic Plate armor)

Edited by fnukafka

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Hello paladins,

I am currently struggling with my powerpips in PVP.

Anyone else struggling with this?

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7 hours ago, XeXeeD said:

Hello paladins,

I am currently struggling with my powerpips in PVP.

Anyone else struggling with this?

Whats your rotation looking like and skills from majors are you  using.  Using execute to much will quickly deplete you of pips.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, XeXeeD said:

Hello paladins,

I am currently struggling with my powerpips in PVP.

Anyone else struggling with this?

It's a struggle.  Having a healer use pips and going into battle, likely with one, would be like asking all other healers to start evry battle with 20% resources as well.

The key will always be your divine light and with how mobile fights are, expect to get ACEd on it regularly in open spaces.  Having to rely on 3 part combo or 3 part basic to generate a pip is a really poor design from @thomasblair  As a healer you need to be able to provide healing at any given time and you'll often be left without pips and no applicable way of getting them.  Pretty much you're not a healer.  You don't do anything well enough to claim a role.  Apparently this is by-design.  Poor design, by design.  Go figure.  Paladins should go to a mana bar when they take their promotion like Druids get Life Tray.  The major abilities do not work well with pips either.

If it's not a Tree of Life fight, so basically 99% of the game, don't bring a paladin.

Lots of Chaos playing paladins right now and its so hilarious in the open field, we just move the battle 10 yards and they are completely worthless.

Edited by Ble

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Odd thing since I've been playing a templar since 5.4 but recently came back I could have sworn we auto generated our first pip every time if we're empty.  In 5.10 currently if the pips are empty they stay empty until a lunge is hit or 3 auto attacks . I watched my old videos and Templars would auto regenerate their first pip after a set amount of time.

So currently its more like starting at 0 mana and having to build our way up instead of 20%.  Not sure if this was broken by design or when it broke to its current status but sent a support ticket to get more clarification on it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MrErad said:

Odd thing since I've been playing a templar since 5.4 but recently came back I could have sworn we auto generated our first pip every time if we're empty.  In 5.10 currently if the pips are empty they stay empty until a lunge is hit or 3 auto attacks . I watched my old videos and Templars would auto regenerate their first pip after a set amount of time.

So currently its more like starting at 0 mana and having to build our way up instead of 20%.  Not sure if this was broken by design or when it broke to its current status but sent a support ticket to get more clarification on it.

Start most fights with 1.  You're right, it does auto gen, but the timer seems 30 sec or more. 

You cannot poke heal, you MUST get a good placement on your first divine light.  1) The way @thomasblair designed it, you cannot use most major disc heals with 1 pip and 2) you don't even have a targeted maintenance heal in your kit. 

If you don't generate pips with your first DL, or you can get in melee range and start attacking, you are literally the most useless person on the field.

 

Fortuitous Blessings can help.

 

If we see a templar, we'll just wait for him to DL, then move/pull and he is attacking us for 100 dmg while his team dies.  Can usually pull both the DL and the Holy Warrior out of the paladin in the first seconds of battle relegating him a Devotion Desperation play.  It's sad.  My Alpha hits for 2500 3rds and neckbreaks for 5k, devotion is laughable.

 

The idea of the class is super cool, some of his interactions are really fun (example: execute only hits for 1800-2000 on a healer, but a healer hitting for 1800-2000 is quite respectable, even if situational), the spells are really cool.  I love Holy Warrior and Devotion.

The paladin just falls waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay short in its implementation.

Edited by Ble

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As a paladin I dont use execute, before this patch i had no problems casting any skills, I have been playing the paladin for last 6 months and never had an issue with it.

Now i feel like that the PIP generation has decreased and makes it barely playable during pvp. 

As far as i know my paladin friends share the same problems, not sure if this change is intended or bugged.

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