Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
pappy

Disc Rune Farming Refresher

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Some of the Dev's come from games of our past, but I feel they have forgotten some valuable information and it has been lost in translation.  I know this isn't a Shadowbane clone, but it does have some reflection from the game.  With the upcoming changes to Major and Minor Discipline Runes, looking back may help us move forward in a positive fashion vs going backwards.

Shadowbane:

Discipline Runes grant a player additional Powers and Focus. These types of runes drop on a set schedule from specific mobs in the world, and are announced to the entire server.

Statistic Runes increase the player's current and maximum attribute values. Stat runes can increase the maximum attribute value by 5 to 40 points (in increments of 5). These runes are found as random drops from most mobs in the world. The best and rarest of statistic runes, which increase an attribute's maximum by 40 points, are announced to the entire server when they do happen to drop. 

Mastery Runes grant weapon mastery skills to classes that do not receive the skill as part of their normal class progression. These runes are also random drops from most mobs in the world.

Edited by pappy

"If your not failing sometimes, you aren't growing.  Without growth, there can never be greatness."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stat runes need to be brought into the fold for sure for 2 reasons.

  • Emotion 
  • Economy 

I have seen guilds broken up over a stat rune drop, people turn into cut throats when grouped with random people.

this creates drama, politics, chaos & a range of emotions no current game can touch.

and obvious one is economy, get that lucky lotto ticket and sell that for a ton of gold. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Just make Disciplines crafteable by Runecrafters and get away from "random"-drop.  The harvesting loop is getting so huge that Crowfall is starting to feel more like a PvE game than a PvP one. 

Yes it's a niche game, but I never imagined it was the grind upon grind one.  I specifically personally worked to get away from these games.. when investing into : "Able to be viable from the start" then what we have now was in no way what I imagined..

Fresh character viable? Nope.
Give him a vessel - viable now? Nope
Ok.. give him level 30 - viable now? Nope.
Ok give him all the gear he wants - viable now? Nope … but starting to get there.
Give him disciplines.. - Viable now? Yes.

The amount of time getting from A to B... to be what is considered Viable.. and I don't mean able to kill everyone, just able to play at a level where you're not killed for venturing outside the beachhead is just getting ridicilous.

Yes we want a player driven economy.  IMO the level of grind isn't helping with that.


---

Speaking of runes.

Since Major disciplines is SO far into the leveling, testing/trying new builds, is on top of everything else also just a huge annoyance.  Yes ppl want to create and do new builds.  Locking disciplines is NOT needed.  When they find a new build that works.. I mean really work they will need new and different stats on their vessel.  Chances are rings/amulets also are not optimal so they want to change those too.

It doesn't need to be the locked in disciplines….  There will be plenty of reason to change to new builds requirements, having to be forced to recreate/relevel/reharvest diciplines to get active again to test these builds… Where is the fun in that?  It's just a grind on grind on grind. 

Just leave the Disciplines changable by paying a Chaos Ember.

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

Just make Disciplines crafteable by Runecrafters and get away from "random"-drop.  The harvesting loop is getting so huge that Crowfall is starting to feel more like a PvE game than a PvP one. 

That's still the plan for majors. I don't know why they felt it was needed to put majors on mobs in the interim until we get Thralls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2019 at 3:13 AM, Arkade said:

That's still the plan for majors. I don't know why they felt it was needed to put majors on mobs in the interim until we get Thralls.

If that still the case, what they did dont make any sence, except for make playing on live more painfull and incrase the gap bettewen causual and hardcore player.

On the big picture,i really dislike the turn the game seen to be taking in the last couples of weeks, its having all about increase the grind without  cuting the boring part of the game like the circle standing. I hope of all my heart that just a tempory inconvienence of the dev process.

Warcamp and new mob are nice if they bring something new, not if they are just here to create another mandatory grind time sink to be be pvp viable.

They have to work creating PVP oportunity (like the rune drop annoucement of SB or a treasure to be win for sucesfull defend/take a ramdon fort in the next hour). And  not force people who arent yet PVP viable to grind for hours at some camp and make them an a target for prepared player that will enjoy wipe easy target, creating more gaps and frustration bettewen players.
And i dont mean new/causual player should be protected, i just mean veteran should have the option to go for valuable disputed target, not just wipe noob or circle standing as only option bettewen siege

Edited by iznogood
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/6/2019 at 2:59 PM, Soulreaver said:

Crowfall is starting to feel more like a PvE game than a PvP one. 

Yes it's a niche game, but I never imagined it was the grind upon grind one. when investing into : "Able to be viable from the start" then what we have now was in no way what I imagined..

  It's just a grind on grind on grind.

You do realize that everything is sped up right now. Leveling and passive are 3 times as fast. Even with that the “grind” to level it will be faster than most mmos.

Its definitely not turning into a PvE game. They’re adding the elements that will drive more player conflicts. I agree on the farming for majors being stupid, mainly being that certain classes/promos are not very fun without them. Crafting the majors is better even if it requires farming the mats.

i do agree that they need to advertise what the game really is. If they don’t they’ll lose people quickly and get a lot of bad reviews. That can really kill a game. And what they “promised” at the beginning is definitely not what is being delivered but that’s ok with me, the changes will probably help player retention. This is a gathering crafting PvP game, in that order, with a heavy emphasis on teamwork. they need to stop trying to appeal to the solos, they will not have fun here. 

I hope when Alpha/Beta comes and they ramp up the advertising that they dont mislead potentials. The people that do stay are the kind I enjoy playing with. I want more of those types here. 

 

Sidenote: +1 on hatred of circle standing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, oneply said:

You do realize that everything is sped up right now. Leveling and passive are 3 times as fast. Even with that the “grind” to level it will be faster than most mmos.

Its definitely not turning into a PvE game. They’re adding the elements that will drive more player conflicts. I agree on the farming for majors being stupid, mainly being that certain classes/promos are not very fun without them. Crafting the majors is better even if it requires farming the mats.

i do agree that they need to advertise what the game really is. If they don’t they’ll lose people quickly and get a lot of bad reviews. That can really kill a game. And what they “promised” at the beginning is definitely not what is being delivered but that’s ok with me, the changes will probably help player retention. This is a gathering crafting PvP game, in that order, with a heavy emphasis on teamwork. they need to stop trying to appeal to the solos, they will not have fun here. 

I hope when Alpha/Beta comes and they ramp up the advertising that they dont mislead potentials. The people that do stay are the kind I enjoy playing with. I want more of those types here. 

 

Sidenote: +1 on hatred of circle standing.

Been here for 2 years now playing actively.  I do know skills are tuned to x3 but that has nothing to do with leveling - 2 different things.

 

Introducing more elements to be gathere doesnt mean more PvP - it means mindless farming of a mob for a % drop chance - and - that means more PvE (as in any time you are engaging in a loop (harvesting/crafting/etc) that has nothing to do with other players - its a PvE loop).   The level of loop is what Im referring to are growing too numerous for no other reason than - cause we can.  Its not needed and tbh I doubt its even asked for.

 

What is asked for is making whst we got workable with guild banks.  With a rework of the point system.  With focus on “Uncle Bob”.  With a relook at classes still subject to old “system/mechanics” - like the Knight-Druid-Ranger etc.  Like working on how to make Sieges more interesting and potentially longer.  Like incorpoorating EKs and their place into the game...

Etc

- but -not- more harvesting loops.  That is -not- what I hear people asking for.  On the contrary.


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Soulreaver said:

I do know skills are tuned to x3 but that has nothing to do with leveling - 2 different things.

 

Introducing more elements to be gathere doesnt mean more PvP - it means mindless farming of a mob for a % drop chance - and - that means more PvE (as in any time you are engaging in a loop (harvesting/crafting/etc) that has nothing to do with other players - its a PvE loop).   The level of loop is what Im referring to are growing too numerous for no other reason than - cause we can.  Its not needed and tbh I doubt its even asked for.

ummm, vessel leveling is sped up too....so.....

its open world farming/gathering. i know with the super low player population it feels like youll be out there just mindlessly farming but that wont be the case at launch. there are no safety instances, everyone is going to need to farm them, and spirit banks will be gone. there will be conflict at those spots. remember its pre alpha and a very low population of regular players. more players, more conflict. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/6/2019 at 2:59 PM, Soulreaver said:

Just make Disciplines crafteable by Runecrafters and get away from "random"-drop.  The harvesting loop is getting so huge that Crowfall is starting to feel more like a PvE game than a PvP one. 

Yes it's a niche game, but I never imagined it was the grind upon grind one.  I specifically personally worked to get away from these games.. when investing into : "Able to be viable from the start" then what we have now was in no way what I imagined..

Fresh character viable? Nope.
Give him a vessel - viable now? Nope
Ok.. give him level 30 - viable now? Nope.
Ok give him all the gear he wants - viable now? Nope … but starting to get there.
Give him disciplines.. - Viable now? Yes.

The amount of time getting from A to B... to be what is considered Viable.. and I don't mean able to kill everyone, just able to play at a level where you're not killed for venturing outside the beachhead is just getting ridicilous.

Yes we want a player driven economy.  IMO the level of grind isn't helping with that.

Lets do both.

Craftable white quality Disciplines. Creates a market for runecrafters from everyone making alts or trying new builds.

World drop disciplines of higher quality that you use for crafted vessels. The flat stats on the rune can scale with quality and just make the abilities scale with quality too.

Edited by Yoink

aeei5jG.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Yoink said:

Lets do both.

Craftable white quality Disciplines. Creates a market for runecrafters from everyone making alts or trying new builds.

World drop disciplines of higher quality that you use for crafted vessels. The flat stats on the rune can scale with quality and just make the abilities scale with quality too.

Sounds good too


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/6/2019 at 12:59 PM, Soulreaver said:

Just make Disciplines crafteable by Runecrafters and get away from "random"-drop. 

I think they should go with a combo of the two systems. Farming wartribes for discs isn't a bad mechanic, it creates another role within the game.

There are miners, quarryman, loggers, skinners, gravediggers, and the current systems create the need for dedicated farming groups to generate gold and other critical loot like recipes and disciplines for their guild/faction. 


Anyway, all this is good. The issue is like you said, the RNG factor of disciplines. Great! Got a discipline! Only problem is it's one that nobody wants.

I think disciplines should drop as say "discipline shards" that you still get by killing war tribes. You give X shards to a runecrafter and they combine them into a discipline. Any one they want to.

Best of both systems. You keep the newfound relevance of PVE groups but remove the RNG of actually finding the discs your guild needs.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/8/2019 at 5:39 AM, oneply said:

You do realize that everything is sped up right now. Leveling and passive are 3 times as fast. Even with that the “grind” to level it will be faster than most mmos.

How is leveling sped up? Mobs give 3 x EXP or something? Don't believe this is true. If it was sped up, can't see anyone enjoying or accepting it.

Unlike "most mmos" there isn't anything to keep it interesting or mix it up. No quests, no lore (in-game), no NPCs of note, no varied lands to travel to, etc. Other MMOs have a ton of content fluff that usually makes the grind kind of go by without notice. Lacking all of this was also supposed to speed up development as well...

Quote

i do agree that they need to advertise what the game really is. If they don’t they’ll lose people quickly and get a lot of bad reviews. That can really kill a game. And what they “promised” at the beginning is definitely not what is being delivered but that’s ok with me, the changes will probably help player retention.

Agreed. Don't believe the overall concept has greatly deviated, but a game is a sum of the pieces and if each go far enough in one direction it will become something much different in the end. To be fair the original Kickstarter concept wasn't exactly highly detailed and hype made up a lot of what it would become, but banging on rocks, grinding bad AI, and standing in circles wasn't what I envisioned.

Quote

Its definitely not turning into a PvE game. 

This is a gathering crafting PvP game, in that order, with a heavy emphasis on teamwork. they need to stop trying to appeal to the solos, they will not have fun here.

You list PVP third behind gathering and crafting, can toss in mob grinding somewhere as well. Not sure how this isn't just as much a PVE game as PVP, if not more. With PVP currently being rather pointless outside of Sieges or controlling POI, seems to be more of an after thought. Everything might indirectly play into player conflict (even crafting safely in an EK), but most games people consider "PVE MMOs" have more access to PVP with or without meaning and reward. Playing the leader board score ticker is not PVP IMO.

I'm curious how much time Devs and fans expect to be doing direct PVP come launch. Is it 75% prep, 25% fight? Are random PVP encounters supposed to be more than dueling? Will all meaningful PVP be on a timer?

On 4/8/2019 at 6:04 AM, oneply said:

its open world farming/gathering. i know with the super low player population it feels like youll be out there just mindlessly farming but that wont be the case at launch. there are no safety instances, everyone is going to need to farm them, and spirit banks will be gone. there will be conflict at those spots. remember its pre alpha and a very low population of regular players. more players, more conflict. 

Honestly I question if this will happen to the level I would want. People tend to take the path of least resistance. As in, they'll call a truce or avoid one another in the short term to gear up for the larger battle. Seen this happen in multiple games where players will bee line to whatever objective if that means getting the shiny rewards vs actually engaging others. Not sure how it will work in Dregs campaigns, but can easily see Faction worlds lacking PVP until whatever moment carries weight. Hope I'm wrong though.

Edited by APE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, APE said:

With PVP currently being rather pointless outside of Sieges or controlling POI

That's the issue right there if people aren't happy with the state of PvP in this game. You want PvP to really ignite, make it so people are more motivated to form capping groups. That means making circles tick a bit faster when you have small groups out capping, and some kind of resource reward attached to doing it.

Right now it's really only associated to faction victory, and half the people playing don't care which faction wins.


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Andius said:

That's the issue right there if people aren't happy with the state of PvP in this game. You want PvP to really ignite, make it so people are more motivated to form capping groups. That means making circles tick a bit faster when you have small groups out capping, and some kind of resource reward attached to doing it.

Right now it's really only associated to faction victory, and half the people playing don't care which faction wins.

I really hope they have more planned as they haven't really given much detail AFAIK when it comes to specifics to PVP and campaign control besides timers. 

Maybe Dregs will bring about something else, but we'll have to see.

DAoC, WAR, ESO, GW2 have all tried different systems that reward/require team work across the world/map beyond capture as much as possible and watch points tick up.

Would like to see some sort of link system for POI, Strongholds, and Zones. Capturing POI in an area is required or at least provides benefits to the controlling force. Determines control of respawn areas, zone access, resources, etc. Capturing POIs around a Stronghold could buff players, the stronghold, and the guards. Can't capture D until ABC are captured.

Basically would just like to see more large scale team work at least on Factions. For Dregs it would simply be on a smaller or larger scale depending on a guilds spread of power and control.

It should be more about active PVP, not back/night capping POIs for points. Capturing a POI should be about marching towards the goal (Stronghold) and taking down an enemy. Not waiting for time to run out and see who managed to stand in circles at 2 am better.

There doesn't need to be a big Castle siege daily. Adding walls and defenses to smaller strongholds could make the build up to the big fight happen over several days or more. Each POI could be a big fight if designed that way.

Edited by APE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, APE said:

There doesn't need to be a big Castle siege daily. Adding walls and defenses to smaller strongholds could make the build up to the big fight happen over several days or more. Each POI could be a big fight if designed that way.

I think you could work a lot of different campaign modes around different forms of keep sieges. One I'd personally really love to see is a mode where each faction or guild starts with a keep that has a ton of super powerful guards with like a 10 second respawn. Each season the guard number decreases and their respawn time increases, and siege windows grow more frequent and longer. Your % control of the map and the zone your keep is in can also have positive or negative effects on guard strength/number/respawn timer.

If your keep is taken it's destroyed and your guild/faction is eliminated. Last guild/faction standing wins.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Andius said:

I think you could work a lot of different campaign modes around different forms of keep sieges. One I'd personally really love to see is a mode where each faction or guild starts with a keep that has a ton of super powerful guards with like a 10 second respawn. Each season the guard number decreases and their respawn time increases, and siege windows grow more frequent and longer. Your % control of the map and the zone your keep is in can also have positive or negative effects on guard strength/number/respawn timer.

If your keep is taken it's destroyed and your guild/faction is eliminated. Last guild/faction standing wins.

Campaign and ruleset variations are the largest reason I backed this project. If they don't come up with some creative options then I won't be sticking around. Generic KOTH and Siege PVP is done better in other games, regardless if a campaign ends or not. Still have some hope but 4 years in and little word on campaign variations or evidence they can even pull off anything isn't comforting. We can suggest ideas, but takes talent and resources to pull it off, both of which have limitations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...