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Navystylz

So much for 24/7 testing

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7 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

My guess is the stacks of dust in the free city are coming from macros and the eternal tree in the EK's and not something inside of GR or from normal player behavior.

To be honest, I have always thought that dust and embers should be exempt from transfer to and from spirit bank and any campaign world.  Go ahead and harvest as much dust in EKs as you like, but you have to convert it into useful goods before it can move to campaign.

Dust in eks/gr isn’t a big deal. But embers should be removed from the loot table. I assume that every node has the same loot table regardless of location. 

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6 minutes ago, Thundar said:

I sold stacks of dust and embers (made about 160k in 3 days) from hitting R3 nodes during spring. I am currently doing the same in GR and personally have 19 embers and 1600 dust in 94 minutes. I'll have enough embers to make an epic chest piece and 4 sets of full blues before dinner time. At least before I had the threat of getting ganked/stopped/losing whats in my inventroy. Now its freeee mats. 

@KrakkenSmacken
And how is this not a problem to you?

 

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1 minute ago, Jokes_on_you said:

did u miss the part where i said i have farmed 22 embers already in God's Reach

 

Was an edit, so yes I did miss that part. 

A few questions to understand the parameters:

  • "already" as in "how long" did it take? (What is the hourly expected output?
  • how trained are you? (Is this what a noob can expect?)
  • what tools are you using?  (Are you using higher quality tools with a dust buff?)
  • Is this better or worse than putting in the same effort in a "real" campaign. (Is there an advantage other than not being ganked to harvesting here?)
  • Is this better or worse than in an EK? (Same as above)

The summary question is, how much "better" is it to harvest in the GR than it is in the CW?   Not getting ganked really doesn't cut it for me as the most important reason, because it's pretty trivial to find an out of the way location and harvest in piece for hours at a time, if your only goal is dust/embers.

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

Was an edit, so yes I did miss that part. 

A few questions to understand the parameters:

  • "already" as in "how long" did it take? (What is the hourly expected output?
  • how trained are you? (Is this what a noob can expect?)
  • what tools are you using?  (Are you using higher quality tools with a dust buff?)
  • Is this better or worse than putting in the same effort in a "real" campaign. (Is there an advantage other than not being ganked to harvesting here?)
  • Is this better or worse than in an EK? (Same as above)

The summary question is, how much "better" is it to harvest in the GR than it is in the CW?   Not getting ganked really doesn't cut it for me as the most important reason, because it's pretty trivial to find an out of the way location and harvest in piece for hours at a time, if your only goal is dust/embers.

I have yet to be in GR but is it eternal spring? If so the ember farm never slows down like it does in campaign. 

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9 minutes ago, Thundar said:

I sold stacks of dust and embers (made about 160k in 3 days) from hitting R3 nodes during spring. I am currently doing the same in GR and personally have 19 embers and 1600 dust in 94 minutes. I'll have enough embers to make an epic chest piece and 4 sets of full blues before dinner time. At least before I had the threat of getting ganked/stopped/losing whats in my inventroy. Now its freeee mats. 

I’m gonna laugh when they wipe for next campaign. Ultimate troll move. 

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Posted (edited)

This account is only a few days old, 30% into excavation tree and not much else. using green tools acquired from an EK vendor (anyone can buy even noobs) and have been farming for about 2 hours or less.

Also it shouldn't matter if it was a noob or not. do you think Vet players wouldn't abuse the poorly made socks out of this?!?!? 

Edited by Jokes_on_you

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Was an edit, so yes I did miss that part. 

A few questions to understand the parameters:

  • "already" as in "how long" did it take? (What is the hourly expected output?
  • how trained are you? (Is this what a noob can expect?)
  • what tools are you using?  (Are you using higher quality tools with a dust buff?)
  • Is this better or worse than putting in the same effort in a "real" campaign. (Is there an advantage other than not being ganked to harvesting here?)
  • Is this better or worse than in an EK? (Same as above)

The summary question is, how much "better" is it to harvest in the GR than it is in the CW?   Not getting ganked really doesn't cut it for me as the most important reason, because it's pretty trivial to find an out of the way location and harvest in piece for hours at a time, if your only goal is dust/embers.

So Balance would have a roving group to cap forts and gank. They only needed one guy to kill my harvester. If they found me and I couldn't bank fast enough I would lose whats in my inventory, I have been stopped from farming and wouldn't go back for X amount of time to let the heat die down. The ganking would stop me, on average, about an hour or two a day. This would be about 15 or so embers and a little over a thousand dust. Times that by X amount of times a week I would dedicate to farming. Some weeks 7 days. And thats not counting whatever they were able to loot off me. Does ganking seem so trivial? I get to keep all of that now and have zero worries. 

 

Keep in mind, my build causes R3+ nodes to explode with crits causing the dust and embers to drop more than basic nodes. This is why its so important as opposed to hitting things in the EK. 

Edited by Thundar

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Only problem aside from the afk timer killing the Lawn is that they didn't run the regular campaign yet so the vets are forced to sit in God's reach and do nothing because they've already got to the top end stuff. When the campaign starts I'm sure you'll only see the new players here learning as was intended.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, oneply said:

I have yet to be in GR but is it eternal spring? If so the ember farm never slows down like it does in campaign. 

Same applies for EK's.  

There are three issues at play, so let's not conflate them.

  1. Is the current drop rate to high or low? (proposition is it's too much to get 1 chaos ember every 5 minutes (roughly from Thundars sample))
  2. Do all nodes produce the same rate (currently yes)
  3. Is it a problem that it can be done safely?  (Also proposed as a yes)

So what do you see as the most significant problem?  Drop rate, nodes producing the same, or the safe harvest?

Personal opinion.  1.5 hrs of work for just the embers of a couple of crafts, (still need the mats work time, AND the crafting time), does not seem too fast given this is not, at least to me, supposed to be a farming simulator, but rather a PvP conquest game. 

Edit: Holy crap,  it sure looks like it is a farming simulator for you. 

11 minutes ago, Thundar said:

Times that by X amount of times a week I would dedicate to farming. Some weeks 7 days. 

If Thundar made 160k from farming, enough to level a high level vessel, represented as at least 240 T10 critter kills (250gp each), then you can hardly say the market is flooded with the product or he would not have been able to sell it for that price. 

Not everyone wants to spend that kind of time whacking nodes every day.  Someone who does that much should be "rich", simply because if he isn't those that don't do it that way will be poor. 

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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I like God's Reach and the concept behind it. Trust me i hated starting this game too, between constant ganks and no tips online to help, i was lost until i joined a guild.
But my problem is not with the Reach itself but with the CHAOS EMBER EXPLOIT.  You may have removed the issue in the EK (not sure cause i honestly have not done it nor have desire too)  but now its persistent in the Reach.

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Posted (edited)

So I wanted to make a quick vid of the difference between drops from basic and R3 nodes. Not only do I get a single dust per basic node but I ended up getting 2 embers, back to back (because the game wanted to help prove a point?), but I ended up with 4-7 dust per node at ~ 7 hit per node. Compared to 3 hit for 1 dust and embers are almost non existent to me. This dust drop is normal and embers drop rate is based off dust. Before I was stopped/ganked throughout the day. Now its all mine all day with no worries.  

Edited by Thundar

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

So what do you see as the most significant problem?  Drop rate, nodes producing the same, or the safe harvest?

Personal opinion.  1.5 hrs of work for just the embers of a couple of crafts, (still need the mats work time, AND the crafting time), does not seem too fast given this is not, at least to me, supposed to be a farming simulator, but rather a PvP conquest game. 

Edit: Holy crap,  it sure looks like it is a farming simulator for you. 

If Thundar made 160k from farming, enough to level a high level vessel, represented as at least 240 T10 critter kills (250gp each), then you can hardly say the market is flooded with the product or he would not have been able to sell it for that price. 

Not everyone wants to spend that kind of time whacking nodes every day.  Someone who does that much should be "rich", simply because if he isn't those that don't do it that way will be poor. 

 

Most significant problem:
1. the EK tree exploit allowed players to farm forever without the threat of being ganked while farming and a random chance for embers. 

2. Gods Reach allows players to farm forever without the threat of being ganked while  farming and a random chance for embers. 

curious if you see the problem here or not?

Edited by Jokes_on_you

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Jokes_on_you said:

Most significant problem:
1. the EK tree exploit allowed players to farm forever without the threat of being ganked while farming and a random chance for embers. 

2. Gods Reach allows players to farm forever without the threat of being ganked while  farming and a random chance for embers. 

curious if you see the problem here or not?

I see a "potential" problem, but not necessarily a manifested problem at this time. Thundar spending a week of dedicated farming to get 160k worth of dust/embers is a corner case player, and it's a bad idea to ratchet down on the majority, because a minority player excels at a certain aspect of the game. I certainly would not be interested enough in farming to hammer on nodes for multiple hours a day just to get some fake internet gold/dust, unless I had something useful to do with it.  The moment I got my epic suit of gear, the farming stops for as long as possible.  I have more fun things to do.

I think the bigger and most obvious problem was the ease with which this could be scripted to be done AFK because of the EK eternal tree.  I don't think that choosing to spend dozens of hours of constantly and manually working nodes, risk or not, should or even can be managed.  I can easily find a knottwood forest on the edge of a "risky" campaign world, or even a patch of lower tier ore nodes, and farm in relative safety, as I have had several hours of that sort of thing without interruption in the past. Use a stealth character and even being ganked while marginally paying attention is not likely to be successful. 

So potential problem, yes. Actual problem... too early to tell.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Posted (edited)

Embers are how u craft the High Tier gear and should be the bottleneck for everyone. Farming R3 nodes, Thundar was able to get 2 Embers within 2 minutes and now doesn't have to worry about being 'ganked' and looted. So he is free to choose a rotation of low rank nodes and farm to his content thus constantly supplying a vendor or guild with embers.

now that's just 1 guy in 1 little area. Imagine all the vet players who are about to break their purple gear and need embers. why would they buy them when they can do the same thing?

Within a day they can have a completely new set of purple or better gear because they can farm the Reach endlessly for embers.  Because that's what they where doing in the EK. If God's Reach is for new players to learn the game. Then removing or significantly lower the drop of embers from God's Reach server is the only way this doesn't get exploited.

Basically guilds can give recruits 'plethra of dust' gear and send them to gods reach until they have the embers for higher tier gear.  no harm no foul am i right?!?!?

Edited by Jokes_on_you

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Jokes_on_you said:

Embers are how u craft the High Tier gear and should be the bottleneck for everyone. Farming R3 nodes, Thundar was able to get 2 Embers within 2 minutes and now doesn't have to worry about being 'ganked' and looted. So he is free to choose a rotation of low rank nodes and farm to his content thus constantly supplying a vendor or guild with embers.

now that's just 1 guy in 1 little area. Imagine all the vet players who are about to break their purple gear and need embers. why would they buy them when they can do the same thing?

Within a day they can have a completely new set of purple or better gear because they can farm the Reach endlessly for embers.  Because that's what they where doing in the EK. If God's Reach is for new players to learn the game. Then removing or significantly lower the drop of embers from God's Reach server is the only way this doesn't get exploited.

 

I know what embers are for.

The answer to the bold is, because actually playing the fighting part of the game, vs players or the new war camps, is a much more entertaining way to acquire enough wealth to keep doing the fun parts of the game for many players. 

Go ahead and whack rocks to get ahead.  Some people like that pace, but I suspect most will prefer to simply buy those things off others more interested in the economy game than in the conquest game.

Supply and demand will regulate the fair market price, and since they are needed for crafting high end, or frankly any gear, the demand will be stable.

With a stable demand, flooding the market will result in lower prices, until eventually the supply reduces because it is no longer worth the time to acquire.  Basically the market will self regulate production, regardless of how much time it takes, or ease to acquire is.  Water is free if you go to a clean river, or a tap, but for some reason people buy it in bottles all the time.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Go ahead and whack rocks to get ahead.  Some people like that pace, but I suspect most will prefer to simply buy those things off others more interested in the economy game than in the conquest game.

 

still i go back to this

 

30 minutes ago, Jokes_on_you said:

Most significant problem:
1. the EK tree exploit allowed players to farm forever without the threat of being ganked while farming and a random chance for embers. 

2. Gods Reach allows players to farm forever without the threat of being ganked while  farming and a random chance for embers. 

curious if you see the problem here or not?


not sure how u think it wont be abused to death

Edited by Jokes_on_you

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1 minute ago, Jokes_on_you said:

 

still i go back to this

 


not sure how u think it wont be exploited to death

Because it's boring for most, and really doesn't get you that much closer to winning campaigns past a certain point.

You still need to be in the CW to get the higher tier resources, and you still need to be in the campaign fighting for whatever it is that is measured to win worlds. 

I'm not sure what you want from me.  I said it was a potential problem, but your not going to convince me it's an actual problem until we have seen the how the system is used over the course of the next few campaigns.

GR has been up for less than 12 hrs, with no real campaign running.  There are just too many missing parts to make more than a guess at this point, for either of us.

 

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If the drop rate of embers is too high (and/or risk is too low) the market will get flooded and they won't have much value. 

1 minute ago, Thundar said:

We were hoping the PvP game would be less carebear when it came to acquiring the top tier gear for PvP/sieges. 

I'm sure many veterans would rather buy embers than spend the time farming them, so I don't see a problem if a harvester player wants to work the ember-farming niche. This is how a player-driven economy works, the devs just need to keep an eye on the balance. You still have to get the better quality resources, and those will not come from EK or GR. If we really want a less carebear, pvp-focused environment, I would suggest full loot including equipped gear 😀


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