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Navystylz

So much for 24/7 testing

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2 minutes ago, Thundar said:

Agree to disagree I guess. We were hoping the PvP game would be less carebear when it came to acquiring the top tier gear for PvP/sieges. 

You still need the T10 nodes for resources, which will not be in GR. You will also need the territory, and to win those PvP sieges, and, and, and.

Not every scintilla of the acquisition process needs to be a pain in the ass for the game to not be carebear, nor was gear ever supposed to be the main measure of what distinguished successful players from failures.

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2 minutes ago, miraluna said:

If the drop rate of embers is too high (and/or risk is too low) the market will get flooded and they won't have much value. 

I'm sure many veterans would rather buy embers than spend the time farming them, so I don't see a problem if a harvester player wants to work the ember-farming niche. This is how a player-driven economy works, the devs just need to keep an eye on the balance. You still have to get the better quality resources, and those will not come from EK or GR. If we really want a less carebear, pvp-focused environment, I would suggest full loot including equipped gear 😀

Which makes me wonder what gold would be good for in the future of this game? I wouldn't sell a single ember in this economy once I have my leveled main. I wouldn't want anyone by my own guild to have the top gear. 

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1 minute ago, Thundar said:

 

Which makes me wonder what gold would be good for in the future of this game? I wouldn't sell a single ember in this economy once I have my leveled main. I wouldn't want anyone by my own guild to have the top gear. 

Most guilds in games are around ten people strong.  Then there smaller groups of players. They will need to trade with each other, just to play.

Connected large guilds may trade with each other exclusively, but there will certainly be those that sit in the margins and trade through shops.  -W- made over 5 million gold IIRC in 5.6 with it's trade center selling mostly white gear and bad rolls.  

If I run solo and have only maxed out Iron harvesting for example, I could see setting up a shop selling surplus iron of all qualities for enough to buy the other things I need elsewhere.

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

You still need the T10 nodes for resources, which will not be in GR. You will also need the territory, and to win those PvP sieges, and, and, and.

Not every scintilla of the acquisition process needs to be a pain in the ass for the game to not be carebear, nor was gear ever supposed to be the main measure of what distinguished successful players from failures.

T10 nodes spew a fountain of mats. We can get thousands of ore in a few hours. Thats not the bottleneck for top tier gear, they made embers be the bottleneck... then let anyone get as much as they can farm without any consequences. If there is 3 of me working in the GR for a day we can have enough embers for 2 full sets of epic armor. Having the embers only in a PvP area would also add another level of PvP aspect to the game. Stopping the other faction from ramping up. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Thundar said:

T10 nodes spew a fountain of mats. We can get thousands of ore in a few hours. Thats not the bottleneck for top tier gear, they made embers be the bottleneck... then let anyone get as much as they can farm without any consequences. If there is 3 of me working in the GR for a day we can have enough embers for 2 full sets of epic armor. Having the embers only in a PvP area would also add another level of PvP aspect to the game. Stopping the other faction from ramping up. 

Well considering I'm a big proponent of easy come, easy go, up to and including full gear loot rules, I don't see a problem with that pace.

I don't want another MMO game where the gear progression is the most important part of the game. Nor do I want a game that you need to make into a second job just to be marginally successful at. 

I would rather the "bottlenecks" be wide funnels, than tight straws, so people can and will spend more time focused on beating each other, than on pounding on resource nodes.

Remember the real gate between worlds is supposed to be import/export/embargo.  Sure you make enough embers for a suit in GR/EK's in a couple of hours, but if you can't move those into the campaign because you burned all your import slots, it's not really going to help you win is it?

Imagine if for example the "fix" to the problem, was to limit ember and dust stack sizes to 5 and 100 respectively, and then limit the import/export numbers based on that.

Now you have a choice, import enough embers to craft a piece of gear in world, OR craft that piece out of world and import it directly, OR get everything from inside the actual world you are fighting for.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Posted (edited)

@thomasblair @jtoddcoleman @Tyrant @Pann 

Please pay attention to this thread.  Giving us a safe place to farm embers and dust is a mistake.  It’s a mistake in the EKs and it’s a mistake here.  The NPE is important but this so so easy to abuse that it will quickly create a much larger divide between your vets and the new players.  

 

For those tuning in late, dust and embers are a vital part of blue, purple and legendary crafting.  A full set of gear might require hundreds of them and should be scarce but they can be harvested from any tree, rock, stone or grave.  Quick farming knotwood is as far as I know the quickest route for dust and 10% of all dust will be embers.  Giving us the ability to farm them en masse and without fear of dying is a mistake. 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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3 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Well considering I'm a big proponent of easy come, easy go, up to and including full gear loot rules, I don't see a problem with that pace.

I don't want another MMO game where the gear progression is the most important part of the game. Nor do I want a game that you need to make into a second job just to be marginally successful at. 

I would rather the "bottlenecks" be wide funnels, than tight straws, so people can and will spend more time focused on beating each other, than on pounding on resource nodes.

Remember the real gate between worlds is supposed to be import/export/embargo.  Sure you make enough embers for a suit in GR/EK's in a couple of hours, but if you can't move those into the campaign because you burned all your import slots, it's not really going to help you win is it?

Before the GR it was fine. Still got plenty of embers to make good gear but the enemy had a chance to impact it. The main gripe here is the GR. As we speak we have guildies pulling blue/purp ore from the R6 ML's in the GR and as many embers as I am pulling. This is free gear up to purple. Ridiculous. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Thundar said:

Before the GR it was fine. Still got plenty of embers to make good gear but the enemy had a chance to impact it. The main gripe here is the GR. As we speak we have guildies pulling blue/purp ore from the R6 ML's in the GR and as many embers as I am pulling. This is free gear up to purple. Ridiculous. 

Those are going away.  The main problem here is the R6 ML's in GR. 

Dropping the ML's in GR, and locking to T1 all the nodes makes sense to me.  Still not sure on the dust/embers, but as I said, it "could" be a problem.  Still has to be proven.

Also for the record, I will amend to "likely" a problem. But I do think it's something that both sides deserve the best arguments to be laid out, before passing judgement, simply because dust/embers are one of the very few things that new players can contribute the moment they start playing the game, that old players may be interested in buying from them.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Jokes_on_you said:


what sold me on the game was PvP free loot and open world. now its just carebear land for the harvesters. guess ill go play ESO, WOW or BDO...... 

You can't have PvP free loot AND hard to aquire in the same game.  It's just not palatable or fun. 

If it's free loot easy go, it simply can't be that hard to come by.  If everyone losses 6 hours of effort every time they lose a 30 second fight, that juice to squeeze ratio is just not worth it.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

You can't have PvP free loot AND hard to aquire in the same game. 

WHAT?!??! Thats what it was before and people liked it.  Maybe your gear doesn't drop on death but the wrest of your stuff does. (minus whatever you spirit bank before death >.> )     

People Still played and enjoyed it. new players are coming daily and vet players are staying to have good and challenging fights. 

 

Now like mandalor said, we have a free space to do exactly what was being done in the EK only on a much larger scale without consequence. may not be an issue right this second, but farming until the 2nd of April when this new campaign launches i plan on being in all legendary/epic gear if things don't change. 

 

 

 

Edited by Jokes_on_you

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Jokes_on_you said:

WHAT?!??! Thats what it was before and people liked it.  Maybe your gear doesn't drop on death but the wrest of your stuff does. (minus whatever you spirit bank before death >.> )     

People Still played and enjoyed it. new players are coming daily and vet players are staying to have good and challenging fights. 

 

 

 

Misunderstanding of terms.   "Free loot" to me does mean "all items including gear are up for grabs on death".  The current inventory only loot is what I would call "partial loot". You get to keep all the time put into crafting stuff you actually wear. All that is at risk is what you happen to pick up between chest/bank stops, and often not even that.

The Spirit Bank aspect is certainly far more carebear than I expect things to settle on.  In fact, with GR in play, I can see them feeling more free to ratchet down the import/export flexibility currently in the campaigns, significantly.

Full loot would definitely put a different spin on the reward badges they have been handing out if you could lose em.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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18 minutes ago, Thundar said:

As we speak we have guildies pulling blue/purp ore from the R6 ML's in the GR

That's temporary only, as GR is intended to "be limited in resource quality (to white)" for new players.

From the article https://crowfall.com/en-US/news/articles/founders-update_when-how-what:

"We’ve set up a TEST version of a God’s Reach world and will be launching it shortly—mainly to get us out of the “when to prop new versions” issue noted above—but as is typically the case with new features it’s going to be rough and unbalanced and certain to have issues. So bear with us."

 


tiPrpwh.png

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5 minutes ago, Jokes_on_you said:

 i plan on being in all legendary/epic gear if things don't change. 

Or as we call it in HoA, our starting gear.  I wish I had a SS of that chest on hand... 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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12 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

 

Full loot would definitely put a different spin on the reward badges they have been handing out if you could lose em.

Who would use them?  What about the arcane weapon skins for backers? Mount skins? Any KS reward like that.  That sounds miserable for the loser. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Who would use them?  What about the arcane weapon skins for backers? Mount skins? Any KS reward like that.  That sounds miserable for the loser. 

Yup, that would be horrible.  But there is a solution.

Stop handing out finished items, and hand out unlimited use scroll recipes with rare ingredients instead.  Possibly even make "victory shards" you get as direct rewards from winning, that let you make anything you have a "victory recipie" for.

So if you lose your prized whatsit, you can make a replacement, either by winning, or trading with a winner for a shard.

Same as for skins. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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2 hours ago, oneply said:

I’m gonna laugh when they wipe for next campaign. Ultimate troll move. 

They already said a wipe won't happen until the new armor changes are in. 

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Why not have actual training inside GR? new players still have 0 clue on.... well anything that involves PvP and sieges.  No Help learning siege equipment, how they work and how to buff/heal them. No help on how to successfully take a fort/keep. No help learning how to craft or  where to farm certain mats. If your focus was truly on helping new players maybe some tool-tips would help, maybe an area to attack a fort/keep with test siege equipment. Not an entire server with no PvP or consequences. How will they learn how cut-throat the game truly is by sitting inside Carebear world? There are so many ways to help out new players other than how GR is currently set up. oh wait i forgot, put guild access in game! That might help. 

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