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5.8.6 LIVE Feedback and Bug Reports for 04/10/19

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tinnis said:

if we were going to go with accessible minor discs on 'vendors' - forget gold

- make the 'night monsters' mobs drop a generic x1* "shattered minor/ major runestone" item as a 'currency' component that you then take to a dedicated 'runestone repair craftsmen' vendor and you can then 'buy' the minor Discipline you want 😜

 

fixed for you. ;) 

Gives Runecrafters a high end product, and leaves open the future possibility of Discipline grades and experimentation on the specific traits.

Edited by VaMei

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HI, is anyone else seeing an issue with Import Export  part of the Spirit Bank? The first time the Import/Export value appeared on the bank UI window was when it hit 0  ;~/  

 

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3 hours ago, Staff said:

Pretty funny seeing balance complain about an order ranger targeting their guards after relentlessly targeting order throughout the campaign despite easier and more valuable points being held by chaos and going so far as to lose a keep just to fight order on a tree 

If you read anything I posted as complaining about what a player has done, I am sorry for you. I was giving props to Scarlett for creativity and tenacity. My feedback to the devs was not about the player, wood-elf, ranger, or complaining about what happened in Kane; during Kane it was an irritation we were foolish to scratch. We should have maintained guards inside the keep and crafter's hut, and ignored the rest of the guards until we rallied for siege.

My complaint centered on the price vs. function of guards in the new reality of gold scarcity.

I can't speak to any perceived abuse suffered by Order during the Kane campaign, I wasn't able to play for much of the campaign for work reasons.

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Posted (edited)

Hi,

With the requirement of finding a scroll for the epic mount plus using the minor discipline "scroll case" (3k gold at the minor disc vendor) to use the respective scroll to craft an epic mount, I think it's pretty weird that epic mounts are still tagged as a non-tradeable item.
This has the consequence that everyone in a guild needs at least one character per account that uses the scroll case discipline (again: 3k gold) permanently just to be able to convert epic mount scrolls into epic mounts. In a scenario where the spiritbank is not functional (for example in a no import campaign) this means that every single time u need to (re)craft an epic mount, u would need to delete one of your minor disciplines, spend 3k gold for the scrollcase discipline, craft ur epic mount and then eventually replace that scrollcase minor again with a combat minor discipline.

I think the effort needed to find the epic mount scroll combined with the effort to set up a character that is able to convert that scroll into a mount justifies the item to be at least tradeable. Or is it intentional design that every character needs to use a minor discipline slot to basically be able to use an epic mount?

Please tell me if i am missunderstanding this mechanic and there is a more efficient way of supplying a guild/multiple accounts with epic mounts.


 

Edited by Fayde

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5 hours ago, Jah said:

I think it would still demystify the major disciplines. When you got a Commander Rune in Shadowbane it wouldn't have felt as epic if it was just a modest stat increase over the readily available White Commander Rune that could be easily bought from vendors.

I don't think it is a bad idea limiting the discipline quality that is allowed into a vessel, white discs could only go into white vessels, epic discs into epic and lower vessels, etc. I think we should all agree white vessels are like the Ibis in Eve, it gets you going but anyone who sticks around for a few days buys a better ship (vessel in this case). We are still discussing this one internally.
 

3 hours ago, Hungry said:

Conclusion

So where to go from here?  Well, I promised I wouldn't offer solutions during this, so I suppose I don't have an answer.  In fact, I don't think my feedback in a vacuum is valuable enough to provide them in the first place.  All I can hope is that the player base and ACE can read this and it help them develop their own thoughts about the current state of the game.  I suppose the only conclusion I have is "I'm sorry I couldn't be less verbose."

Thank you for your post! We value and try to read all the feedback, and I'll give you a secret. A game is only as good as the number of meaningful iterations you are able to put in front of a live audience before you go to market. This is one of the reasons I think most MMO's aren't really ready until a year or two after launch, they just didn't have time to play test their ideas with lots and lots of people.
Based on play and feedback we already have some tweaks lined up for 5.90;
More humanoid NPC's in the maps,
Can level a white vessel all the way to 30 in GR,
Little bump in durability on armor.

There are additional tasks we were planning to do as well, unfortunately we ran out of time for 5.8.6 build.
 

2 hours ago, VaMei said:

fixed for you. ;) 

Gives Runecrafters a high end product, and leaves open the future possibility of Discipline grades and experimentation on the specific traits.

I already did the recipes for both the Exploration and Major disciplines for 5.90, the runecrafters will have another in demand category of item to sell ontop of tools.
 

1 hour ago, Fayde said:

Hi,

With the requirement of finding a scroll for the epic mount plus using the minor discipline "scroll case" (3k gold at the minor disc vendor) to use the respective scroll to craft an epic mount, I think it's pretty weird that epic mounts are still tagged as a non-tradeable item.
This has the consequence that everyone in a guild needs at least one character per account that uses the scroll case discipline (again: 3k gold) permanently just to be able to convert epic mount scrolls into epic mounts. In a scenario where the spiritbank is not functional (for example in a no import campaign) this means that every single time u need to (re)craft an epic mount, u would need to delete one of your minor disciplines, spend 3k gold for the scrollcase discipline, craft ur epic mount and then eventually replace that scrollcase minor again with a combat minor discipline.

I think the effort needed to find the epic mount scroll combined with the effort to set up a character that is able to convert that scroll into a mount justifies the item to be at least tradeable. Or is it intentional design that every character needs to use a minor discipline slot to basically be able to use an epic mount?

Please tell me if i am missunderstanding this mechanic and there is a more efficient way of supplying a guild/multiple accounts with epic mounts.
 

I removed the data for the mount that is produced to be non-tradeable, however I am not sure it made the 5.8.6 build. If it is not in live then 5.90 will bring that change.  Long term I don't see the scroll slot being used to craft mounts, I just didn't have a better slot to put it in yet.


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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29 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

Thank you for your post! We value and try to read all the feedback, and I'll give you a secret. A game is only as good as the number of meaningful iterations you are able to put in front of a live audience before you go to market. This is one of the reasons I think most MMO's aren't really ready until a year or two after launch, they just didn't have time to play test their ideas with lots and lots of people.
Based on play and feedback we already have some tweaks lined up for 5.90;
More humanoid NPC's in the maps,
Can level a white vessel all the way to 30 in GR,
Little bump in durability on armor.

There are additional tasks we were planning to do as well, unfortunately we ran out of time for 5.8.6 build.
 

 

 

With the few years I spent in game dev in my younger years I'm 100% with you on how important rapid iteration is, especially in the current phase of development.  Getting across the weird art-science of game design that you have to find the fun and then strip out all the stuff that you don't need for that fun and build parts to glue all the fun together is really hard from developer to player, and one of the reasons game dev is hard to talk about (at least for me). 

I think it is one of the really hard things about the way Crowfall is current being run as half-indev product leaving the prototyping phase and half live service with paying customers.  Especially mounted with the feedback loop of a live game.  A lot of player-testers are much more concerned with Now Problems than the end product because the end product is less visible, and the incomplete state of the product creates problems that wouldn't be a thing even through the course of cleaning up your tech debt from prototyping (like storage).

Anyways thanks for reading my post, as I always tell my guild it always takes you guys a few tries any time you implement something new to find the sweet spot but you always find it eventually.  You are so receptive to feedback that I always have high confidence you'll get it sorted out.

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3 hours ago, thomasblair said:
  • I don't think it is a bad idea limiting the discipline quality that is allowed into a vessel, white discs could only go into white vessels, epic discs into epic and lower vessels, etc.
  • Based on play and feedback we already have some tweaks lined up for 5.90;
  • More humanoid NPC's in the maps,
  • Can level a white vessel all the way to 30 in GR,
  • Little bump in durability on armor.
  • There are additional tasks we were planning to do as well, unfortunately we ran out of time for 5.8.6 build.
  • I already did the recipes for both the Exploration and Major disciplines for 5.90, the runecrafters will have another in demand category of item to sell ontop of tools.
  • I removed the data for the mount that is produced to be non-tradeable, however I am not sure it made the 5.8.6 build. If it is not in live then 5.90 will bring that change.  Long term I don't see the scroll slot being used to craft mounts, I just didn't have a better slot to put it in yet.

@thomasblair @jtoddcoleman

Any chance there could be some sort of pinned "What we're working on" or "We hear you" topic in News, General, or Testing?

A Dev Tracker would be nice, but this quick bit of info answers many comments across multiple discussions.

Would be great to have any dev be able to post a few words if they have a response to a burning topic that we are allowed to know. Along with any new details from streams that get lost in an hour+ time frame. The Alchemy follow up by @vkromas was excellent and exactly what I'd like to see more of.

Making items in game should be a multiple step process, seeking out updates about development shouldn't be the same.

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3 hours ago, thomasblair said:

I don't think it is a bad idea limiting the discipline quality that is allowed into a vessel, white discs could only go into white vessels, epic discs into epic and lower vessels, etc. I think we should all agree white vessels are like the Ibis in Eve, it gets you going but anyone who sticks around for a few days buys a better ship (vessel in this case). We are still discussing this one internally.

I don't disagree with that sort of limit. What I disagreed with was the suggestion that low ranked major disciplines should be readily available from vendors.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Staff said:

Why?

Because it would detract from the mystique of major disciplines. I still hold out hope that hunting major discipline thralls will be as satisfying as discipline rune hunting was in Shadowbane. If you can readily buy them from npc vendors, it won't be.

Edited by Jah

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Very minor bug report:

 

I came back into the game and found I had lower than expected food level, just under half - then ate 1 ordinary apple and it went to max.

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Has there been any consideration to lower water/milk vendor costs considering how much gold is in the system now?

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100 gold per milk and 80 gold per water seems very steep these days.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Jah said:

Because it would detract from the mystique of major disciplines. I still hold out hope that hunting major discipline thralls will be as satisfying as discipline rune hunting was in Shadowbane. If you can readily buy them from npc vendors, it won't be.

I have some severe reservations about randomly spawning thralls at night in random locations that despawn when daylight happen.  It makes more sense to me for the farie ghost that will drop a component used for naiad, pixie and dryad to haunt the glade it was killed in than to randomly wander.  O that human ghost that was a solider and drops the component for blade-master, standard bearer siege engineer, he died in a battle at this  location.  That shaman who drops the rune component for rune caster, Elementalist and banshee o she died here.  The whole random location doesn’t sit well with me.  Ghosts (thralls) shouldn’t be random.  We have enough rng in the game already and putting them in set locations was probably the best moment to moment driver of Shadowbane, CF should follow that imo. 

For clarification disc drops (the good discs at least) was always going to be a fight.  People brought their friends and allies to get early commander, bounty hunter/huntsman or gladiator.  It was a reliable source of combat.  It was always a fight for the valuable ones, even on dead servers and low pop emulated Shadowbane.  We need more of that in CF. 

Make us find their locations but let that be where they spawn.  

There were also warning messages that went out before they spawned (later in sb, I think) and it really helped get people out to contest them.  I have reservations about that because it feels easy but it did increase the PvP. 

That announcment was there for Godly stat runes too.  Not something we have in CF but something to maybe consider for minors dropping off war camps.  

@jtoddcoleman

Edited by mandalore

This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

wiDfyPp.png

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17 hours ago, Tinnis said:

 

if we were going to go with accessible minor discs on 'vendors' - forget gold

- make the 'night monsters' drop a generic x1* "shattered runestone" item as a 'currency' that you then take to a dedicated 'runestone repair' vendor and you can then 'buy' the minor you want 😜

*or a variety of base types for differing 'vendor' selections <shrug> e.g. x5 base shattered types, with their corresponding spread of options on 5 vendors

More stuff to store in our banks.. Oh great :(


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Jah said:

Because it would detract from the mystique of major disciplines. I still hold out hope that hunting major discipline thralls will be as satisfying as discipline rune hunting was in Shadowbane. If you can readily buy them from npc vendors, it won't be.

I see it as starting vessels and gear to get people going that allow players to try things out and see if they want to spend X time/gold going down a particular path.

IMO a player should be able to leave GR with a lvl 30 starter vessel, white/green gear, and disciplines.

If disciplines of all types were available from vendors, crafters, and rare drops there could be varying versions.

Vendors would be 50% as powerful, have limited life with low durability, and come with an okay gold cost to make them not efficient long term.

Crafting could be 75% power, high durability and components require an acceptable amount of grinding.

Rare drops would be 100% power, no durability, and require finding a Thrall/mob that doesn't want to be found and give it up.

Just example numbers, but don't see why having a disposable weak option would take away from having a permanent strong option. There would still be progression and goal to achieve. 

I can't remember how grindy SB was in comparison to current CF, but they aren't identical game designs. New players need away to get into the good stuff quickly to get attached to their character and the game. Doesn't mean they need to start with a full legendary character, but more a taste of what they could become if they put in the time/effort. If vendor disciplines were limited to white/green vessels that would be another check in place to keep players seeking crafted/dropped disciplines for higher quality vessels which I assume we will all be going for asap.

Edited by APE

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1 minute ago, APE said:

I can't remember how grindy SB was in comparison to current CF, but they aren't identical game designs.

You didn't grind to get disciplines in Shadowbane, you hunted down specific named mobs that dropped the rune 100% of the time. The locations where those mobs spawned were highly contested pvp hotspots. That is what I want for major discipline thralls in Crowfall.

My understanding is that RNG drops for majors is a stop-gap, and it will be going away.

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Just now, Jah said:

You didn't grind to get disciplines in Shadowbane, you hunted down specific named mobs that dropped the rune 100% of the time. The locations where those mobs spawned were highly contested pvp hotspots. That is what I want for major discipline thralls in Crowfall.

My understanding is that RNG drops for majors is a stop-gap, and it will be going away.

So far seems ACE is all about the grind so don't know. If it was 100% drop and relatively easy to come about "good" Disciplines, I don't see it as an issue. I am not a fan of RNG, especially very very grindy RNG.

Since this game is not horizontal, vertical progression for everything would allow players to find what works for them at the time.

Expecting green players without disciplines to compete for rare mobs against purple players with disciplines seems like an un-fun uphill battle.

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1 minute ago, APE said:

So far seems ACE is all about the grind so don't know. If it was 100% drop and relatively easy to come about "good" Disciplines, I don't see it as an issue. I am not a fan of RNG, especially very very grindy RNG.

Since this game is not horizontal, vertical progression for everything would allow players to find what works for them at the time.

Expecting green players without disciplines to compete for rare mobs against purple players with disciplines seems like an un-fun uphill battle.

As much as ACE does seem keen on the RNG grind at the moment, I still hold hope that the thralls for major disciplines will not work that way. 

I don't want major disciplines to be easy to come by. 100% drop, but not easy. I want them to be a coveted item so that they drive pvp like they did in Shadowbane.

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