Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
silhaku

Unpopular Opinion about the Discipline Changes

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

So as the title suggest I actually agree with the decision to make disciplines harder to get. I know a lot of people are threatening to quit the game because of it but here's my thoughts on it. Right now resources in the game are pretty plentiful, to the point where contesting the resources of another faction isn't really worth it because there's enough for everyone. But the contesting of resources was suppose to be a key conflict of the game. Honestly even when the game goes live and there's a bunch of players roaming around it still won't be too big of a issue because most of the map a barren even with the campaign at its highest pop. On top of this the only thing really worth camping from the other faction is gold mainly due to this discipline change. 

 

So i'm about to look at this as objectively as possible. Her are the cons to the change.

*Much harder to get your ideal build

*Ancients and camps aren't solo friendly (need friends to help you farm)

*Drop rates are crap

Now here are the pros

*Adds more key farm locations for factions to fight over

*Encourages more group play

*Brings up the value of the non meta Disciplines

The pros have as much a impact because of the low population but when it goes up that will improve drastically what most of the cons will diminish. All but the drop rate one which I agree that this needs to be improved. I mean if it takes 4 or 5 people to take these things down then you should get 4 to 5 Disciplines. Hell and that's with mostly maxed levels. Ideally you want to be farming Disciplines as you unlock them for you vessel so it might take even more people. But that's arguable because most people farming them would probably be maxed level already farming them for a new vessel.

 

Only other negative I see of this is the fact that the plan is to eventually make Disciplines permanent on vessels without a option to destroy them later on. If this is true then this will completely do the opposite to the value of non meta Disciplines and will definitely cause a lot more harm then good.

 

Anyway if anyone agree, disagree, have their own opinions, etc. don't be afraid to post them here.

Edited by silhaku

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The drop from mobs is still a placeholder, a new placeholder granted...   discs will be crafted by runecrafters and the thrall component will be the one we hunt that is rare.  Blair said the disc recipes are done...  we can hope the first iteration for thrall capture and an actual use for polished soulgems comes with 5.9.   For this patch it is mostly...   oooo   PvE...   yawn, rest up for 5.9.

Yea, the grind for the discs really sucks.

Edited by Frykka

6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the scarcity because it makes you think... but minors are not implemented well imo.  The “everything can drop anything “ loot tables are problematic. Same level of scarcity with divided loot tables would be perfect imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, silhaku said:

*Ancients and camps aren't solo friendly (need friends to help you farm)

I disagree vehemently with the approach to "force" people to play a certain way ie.  in a group.  Due to real life many people aren't in a position to be heavily into groups and yet they could very much enjoy and bring a lot to the game as a solo player.  Its not an either or thing for me.  Yes, give incentives and such to people who play in groups and of course there can be many many things you can't do solo (which is the case with many games) but there can also be much a person can and should be able to do solo and still contribute to the game and such as a whole.  That being said, as far as disciplines go, I had just gotten into crowfall and really hadn't figured out which ones to use with what build and then they changed it making it impossible for me to get my hands on one let alone experiment with what works and with this being "pre-alpha" where I would expect to be able to test and experiment and such made me even less pleased so needless to say I was, nor am I happy but like many things in a pre-alpha game I tell myself "its just pre-alpha.  it probably won't stay like this"  which is a small consolation to being able to actually test and experiment with these things but oh well....  If it stays like this and does NOT change in the fully released version however I would be very very unhappy and probably not play the game again.  There are to many games out there seeking my attention to stay with one that is un-enjoyable..  :)  my two cents.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Drizzzt said:

impossible for me to get my hands on one let alone experiment with what works and with this being "pre-alpha" where I would expect to be able to test and experiment

Test server has free gold and all disciplines on vendors. Can make a basic lvl 30 relatively easy with everything you need to test things out, on dummies at least. Can also find crafting supplies to make high end gear but still have to put in the effort to craft it.

Beyond this, making new characters or builds and experimenting with the supposedly complex character system shouldn't be a chore. Why make a billion options if we can't realistically try more than a handful over a given time.

Maybe we could have EK only disciplines or even characters to test things?

Almost every MMO that I can think of has made the new player experience and new character building as easy as possible. When the "real" or "end" game is the goal, smacking boars or throwing gold in a fire should not be a hassle or a huge time sink.

Prior to the CF Kickstarter, even ACE made a statement about how they didn't want to do the same old kill rats, level, meaningless badge routine. Yet here we are.

For those with unlimited time and that like to no life games as a second job this is probably crazy talk, but not everyone has that luxury nor wants to play a video game like this.

I agree they need to have solo or casual friendly content, but they need more content in general. We've had the same bang on rocks, craft, kill spiders for a good while. Siege was a nice addition, but a lot more is needed. Players being the content only works if there are players and they have things to do that keep them logging in.

Edited by APE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, APE said:

Test server has free gold and all disciplines on vendors. Can make a basic lvl 30 relatively easy with everything you need to test things out, on dummies at least. Can also find crafting supplies to make high end gear but still have to put in the effort to craft it.

Beyond this, making new characters or builds and experimenting with the supposedly complex character system shouldn't be a chore. Why make a billion options if we can't realistically try more than a handful over a given time.

Maybe we could have EK only disciplines or even characters to test things?

Almost every MMO that I can think of has made the new player experience and new character building as easy as possible. When the "real" or "end" game is the goal, smacking boars or throwing gold in a fire should not be a hassle or a huge time sink.

Prior to the CF Kickstarter, even ACE made a statement about how they didn't want to do the same old kill rats, level, meaningless badge routine. Yet here we are.

For those with unlimited time and that like to no life games as a second job this is probably crazy talk, but not everyone has that luxury nor wants to play a video game like this.

I agree they need to have solo or casual friendly content, but they need more content in general. We've had the same bang on rocks, craft, kill spiders for a good while. Siege was a nice addition, but a lot more is needed. Players being the content only works if there are players and they have things to do that keep them logging in.

I mostly agree with all of this but I just want to state that moving class progression to the vessel from the passive training was definitely a improvement. The issue now if the level grind they have now that have little reason to be in the game. And the fact that you have to do it with each new vessel you make. It does add value to protecting and assaulting grinding areas but is adds more frustration for the little depth that it adds. So I hope they improve on this system some more and figure out a way to remove this leveling process. Hell for now I'd even say keep everything the same and just start the vessels at level 30.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Drizzzt said:

I disagree vehemently with the approach to "force" people to play a certain way ie.  in a group.  Due to real life many people aren't in a position to be heavily into groups and yet they could very much enjoy and bring a lot to the game as a solo player.  Its not an either or thing for me.  Yes, give incentives and such to people who play in groups and of course there can be many many things you can't do solo (which is the case with many games) but there can also be much a person can and should be able to do solo and still contribute to the game and such as a whole.  That being said, as far as disciplines go, I had just gotten into crowfall and really hadn't figured out which ones to use with what build and then they changed it making it impossible for me to get my hands on one let alone experiment with what works and with this being "pre-alpha" where I would expect to be able to test and experiment and such made me even less pleased so needless to say I was, nor am I happy but like many things in a pre-alpha game I tell myself "its just pre-alpha.  it probably won't stay like this"  which is a small consolation to being able to actually test and experiment with these things but oh well....  If it stays like this and does NOT change in the fully released version however I would be very very unhappy and probably not play the game again.  There are to many games out there seeking my attention to stay with one that is un-enjoyable..  :)  my two cents.  

That's exactly what a guild is for.  We have people who cannot grind out discs due to RL requirements.  Thats ok, they log in when they can and skin or mine or craft etc.  We do the disc work for them while they're at work/sleeping/afk.  They help feed the machine in whatever way they can.

If every aspect of the game is soloable, it becomes very boring for group play very quickly.

And you're insinuating that discs are required to play the game.  This is not true, as you saw keeps getting sieged by white vessels with no gear and no discs just two nights ago.

If I was a solo player I might think about ways to maximize my econ (get money) so that I can buy the discs I want as the "guilds" likely have several spirit banks full of them by now and are starting to sell them.

Additionally, I think you're missing the point of pre-Alpha.  We're not here to test things to our liking, we're here to test whatever they throw at us and be prepared for full wipes and to redo everything on no notice multiple times.   In this aspect your concerns have validity, but only if they agree with you that the game should be soloable, and I do not think they do.

Lastly, they've said multiple times that the current implementation of dics is a placeholder for the thrall/crafting method of obtaining discs, so do not fear, this will not go live.  We've both alpha and beta to get through, and at this rate, thats 8 or more years.  😯

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, silhaku said:

I mostly agree with all of this but I just want to state that moving class progression to the vessel from the passive training was definitely a improvement. The issue now if the level grind they have now that have little reason to be in the game. And the fact that you have to do it with each new vessel you make. It does add value to protecting and assaulting grinding areas but is adds more frustration for the little depth that it adds. So I hope they improve on this system some more and figure out a way to remove this leveling process. Hell for now I'd even say keep everything the same and just start the vessels at level 30.

There are any number of ways to deal with vessels, leveling, and specifically how it works for a new player.

I'd like to see sped up leveling in GR and starter vessel xp cut in half. Or build initial progress into a tutorial be it EK/GR where the end result is a lvl 30 basic geared character. Disciplines coming from multiple sources (vendor/drop/crafted) with various qualities would be great as well.

We should be encouraged to experiment.

There are ways to balance it out so new players/characters aren't popping out in legendary gear nor as powerful, but still gives players a starter place to then spend hours and hours of their lives working towards something.

They could have the vendors they have on Test be in GR. Vessels could require half the exp they do now. Allow players to learn the basics and build whatever they want. Eventually being able to leave to a "real" campaign with a lowly bare minimum character, but not totally naked and afraid.

Some view things from that of an experienced player or knowing how things will work weeks, months, years post launch. I'm concerned about new players, new blood, and how the initial game will be reported. This is what keeps games going or not. Sieges or whatever can be amazing, but if people won't/can't get there, it's all for nothing. Those that believe this makes some weak or unworthy, oh well, I'd rather have more like that in the game then 1 server with two guilds battling it out. Believe some overestimate how many cutthroat hardcore gamers are out there or interesting in this type of game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, APE said:

There are any number of ways to deal with vessels, leveling, and specifically how it works for a new player.

I'd like to see sped up leveling in GR and starter vessel xp cut in half. Or build initial progress into a tutorial be it EK/GR where the end result is a lvl 30 basic geared character. Disciplines coming from multiple sources (vendor/drop/crafted) with various qualities would be great as well.

We should be encouraged to experiment.

There are ways to balance it out so new players/characters aren't popping out in legendary gear nor as powerful, but still gives players a starter place to then spend hours and hours of their lives working towards something.

They could have the vendors they have on Test be in GR. Vessels could require half the exp they do now. Allow players to learn the basics and build whatever they want. Eventually being able to leave to a "real" campaign with a lowly bare minimum character, but not totally naked and afraid.

Some view things from that of an experienced player or knowing how things will work weeks, months, years post launch. I'm concerned about new players, new blood, and how the initial game will be reported. This is what keeps games going or not. Sieges or whatever can be amazing, but if people won't/can't get there, it's all for nothing. Those that believe this makes some weak or unworthy, oh well, I'd rather have more like that in the game then 1 server with two guilds battling it out. Believe some overestimate how many cutthroat hardcore gamers are out there or interesting in this type of game.

I actually think it should be more like 1/3 of the exp required to level. 10 Should be the max level for them just like the mobs. Just increase the skillpoints gained per level and the hp to match where level 30s sit at now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Minor disciplines become available very early on, and are intended to be swappable. As things currently stand:

A. The average player has no access to decent minors at a low level.
B. Desirable minors are so sought after they have more value than a pretty decent vessel, making swapping them impractical.

This is why I keep repeating, mobs shouldn't be dropping random minors. Make them drop crafting components that can be used to make desired minors. If we didn't have to get 10 minors we don't want for every one we do, the minor economy would sort itself out fairly quickly and reach the level where it's reasonable to get the minors you want, and practical to swap them for people who are in a good place progression-wise. 


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Andius said:

Minor disciplines become available very early on, and are intended to be swappable. As things currently stand:

A. The average player has no access to decent minors at a low level.
B. Desirable minors are so sought after they have more value than a pretty decent vessel, making swapping them impractical.

This is why I keep repeating, mobs shouldn't be dropping random minors. Make them drop crafting components that can be used to make desired minors. If we didn't have to get 10 minors we don't want for every one we do, the minor economy would sort itself out fairly quickly and reach the level where it's reasonable to get the minors you want, and practical to swap them for people who are in a good place progression-wise. 

I pretty sure the Disciplines dropping from mobs are place holder. Even the backers are saying they will be something made by rune crafters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Ble said:

That's exactly what a guild is for.  We have people who cannot grind out discs due to RL requirements.  Thats ok, they log in when they can and skin or mine or craft etc.  We do the disc work for them while they're at work/sleeping/afk.  They help feed the machine in whatever way they can.

If every aspect of the game is soloable, it becomes very boring for group play very quickly.

And you're insinuating that discs are required to play the game.  This is not true, as you saw keeps getting sieged by white vessels with no gear and no discs just two nights ago.

If I was a solo player I might think about ways to maximize my econ (get money) so that I can buy the discs I want as the "guilds" likely have several spirit banks full of them by now and are starting to sell them.

Additionally, I think you're missing the point of pre-Alpha.  We're not here to test things to our liking, we're here to test whatever they throw at us and be prepared for full wipes and to redo everything on no notice multiple times.   In this aspect your concerns have validity, but only if they agree with you that the game should be soloable, and I do not think they do.

Lastly, they've said multiple times that the current implementation of dics is a placeholder for the thrall/crafting method of obtaining discs, so do not fear, this will not go live.  We've both alpha and beta to get through, and at this rate, thats 8 or more years.  😯

You good sir/ma'am did NOT thoroughly read my post.  I SAID there should be stuff that some one can NOT solo.  I don't expect a solo player to take a fort or keep or what ever or take on a whole army of crows or many many other things.  What I do NOT want to see is this game become a group ONLY game where unless your part of your precious guilds, you can't do anything.  Its not an either or choice. You can have both. Quality hardcore group orientated content and plenty of content a solo player can do.  Eve online has that and I hear some of these guys worked on eve.  Maybe some of us don't want to be a member of your precious guilds...  Maybe we want to stealth kill your guilds harvesters while they are trying to resupply your guilds or maybe we want to hang around the fringes of your armies and pick off any unlucky souls that wonders away to take a piss or harrass your supply lines.  There are PLENTY of things a solo player can do to really shake things up and make it interesting withOUT becoming a member of your precious guilds.  All I am saying is don't cater to the solo player but also don't write them out of the equation or you will miss out on all the mischief a solo player can bring to the game. :):)  cheers mate. :):)  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drizzzt said:

You good sir/ma'am did NOT thoroughly read my post.  I SAID there should be stuff that some one can NOT solo.  I don't expect a solo player to take a fort or keep or what ever or take on a whole army of crows or many many other things.  What I do NOT want to see is this game become a group ONLY game where unless your part of your precious guilds, you can't do anything.  Its not an either or choice. You can have both. Quality hardcore group orientated content and plenty of content a solo player can do.  Eve online has that and I hear some of these guys worked on eve.  Maybe some of us don't want to be a member of your precious guilds...  Maybe we want to stealth kill your guilds harvesters while they are trying to resupply your guilds or maybe we want to hang around the fringes of your armies and pick off any unlucky souls that wonders away to take a piss or harrass your supply lines.  There are PLENTY of things a solo player can do to really shake things up and make it interesting withOUT becoming a member of your precious guilds.  All I am saying is don't cater to the solo player but also don't write them out of the equation or you will miss out on all the mischief a solo player can bring to the game. :):)  cheers mate. :):)  

 

Sure, you can do those things.... but you got to do it in crap gear, since you are a soloer.   Get maybe one kill or a momentary delay on a gatherer till you are mercd and camped by protectors.  Sounds fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ble said:

Sure, you can do those things.... but you got to do it in crap gear, since you are a soloer.   Get maybe one kill or a momentary delay on a gatherer till you are mercd and camped by protectors.  Sounds fun.

No I won't.  I won't have to do it with crap gear.  I will have several options to get my hands on great gear.  1.  I will be able to craft it myself (harvest the mins myself etc etc).  In fact I am currently learning how.  2. I can commission someone to do it for me.  I am confident I will NOT have a problem finding a crafter willing to so for a fee of course assuming I don't want to do it myself.   See??? where there is a will there is a way.  be wary harvesters!! and those taking a piss!!  lol.  I may not be winning any major battles or busting keeps and forts and what not wide open but by golly I will be bring the pain to a select few. :)  :)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Drizzzt said:

You good sir/ma'am did NOT thoroughly read my post.  I SAID there should be stuff that some one can NOT solo.  I don't expect a solo player to take a fort or keep or what ever or take on a whole army of crows or many many other things.  What I do NOT want to see is this game become a group ONLY game where unless your part of your precious guilds, you can't do anything.  Its not an either or choice. You can have both. Quality hardcore group orientated content and plenty of content a solo player can do.  Eve online has that and I hear some of these guys worked on eve.  Maybe some of us don't want to be a member of your precious guilds...  Maybe we want to stealth kill your guilds harvesters while they are trying to resupply your guilds or maybe we want to hang around the fringes of your armies and pick off any unlucky souls that wonders away to take a piss or harrass your supply lines.  There are PLENTY of things a solo player can do to really shake things up and make it interesting withOUT becoming a member of your precious guilds.  All I am saying is don't cater to the solo player but also don't write them out of the equation or you will miss out on all the mischief a solo player can bring to the game. :):)  cheers mate. :):)  

 

It takes 10 accounts worth of training to reliably get/make everything required fully equip a character. You may want to buy nine more accounts and start training them now if you don't want to be stuck farming for an eternity to buy whatever random stuff people want to put on a vendor.

Crowfall is not kind to the solo player, and this is intentional. You are signing up for a very rough life.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

It takes 10 accounts worth of training to reliably get/make everything required fully equip a character. You may want to buy nine more accounts and start training them now if you don't want to be stuck farming for an eternity to buy whatever random stuff people want to put on a vendor.

Crowfall is not kind to the solo player, and this is intentional. You are signing up for a very rough life.

I won't be buying them right now because we have not hit final wipe and any training I do now is a moot point.  There is a strong possibility however that I will give crowfall my hard earned cash after final wipe to get the full experience. :)  I always get a kick out of people who claim to know the intentions of the developers.  :)  also fyi.  I know of a few people who currently have 8 to 10 accounts just for this purpose and some even have that many to help out their guilds so its not even close to being unheard of even in a pre-alpha model :)    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...