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SmokinJoker46290

Why do you hate skinners?

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There is no love for the skinning profession.

With the day / night cycle affecting the hide drop tables, waiting for spawn time of mobs and the recent nerf to the amount of mobs found inside forests and other area's its making skinning not worth it. Sitting at a whopping 2  R9 hellcats in our forest of silence trying to get enough flexible hide to gear out 1 person is hours worth of nonsense.  Even if my beneficial harvest did happen to Proc, i would get that bonus only on the second cat i skin then wait another 3 minutes for spawns. Why is this happening to the skinning profession when ore/stone can go from pocket to pocket burning thru hammers/picks??? I understand that leatherworking might not be as important as Blacksmithing but if we are 4/5 days into a new item wipe and everyone who can use mail/plate armor has greens/blues and the leather wearers are still in commons then there seems to be an issue.

Then u nerf the gold drop and replace it with 1 dust......  i get that animals shouldn't be rollin down the street with fat stacks in their pockets but 1 dust in compensation?!?!? i can go smack a tree twice and get 2/3 dust. 

Dont forget the new Ancient mobs which have turned solo skinning into a nightmare. Accidentally agro an ancient anything on your journey and its game over unless you have a pocket healer at all times. Then when you do kill a R5 ancient you are rewarded from the gods with.... you guessed it....more dust. We spent a good 10 minutes killing a R5 expecting to see our first majors of the game after this new wipe, instead we got 45 dust and a kick to the moral. We where all on white vessels with common gear and didnt expect to kill it easily but good gravy!!!! 

 Not sure how many people have to complain about this before a change that actually happens to make skinning worth it.

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Posted (edited)

Agreed.

Devs said that skinning should be a BONUS to when we are out farming monsters. That doesn't compute.

Nobody is going out to farm spiders, pigs, elk or auroch due to their low quantity and inability to drop gold anymore. The entire purpose of killing them now is to skin them. Even discipline farming from Hunger mobs is not working, we have seen a grand total of 4 major disciplines farm from high rank monsters after hundreds of game hours of play this campaign.

 

If you truly wanted Skinning to be a bonus, Leatherworking should take HALF the material that it does now per item.  Because it takes at least DOUBLE the time to harvest, considering we have to kill the monster too.

Right now, leatherworking takes MORE materials than blacksmithing does to make the same set, and mining is drastically easier to get that quantity of material as well..

@jtoddcoleman @thomasblair your design for skinning and leatherworking is not consistent with other tradeskills, and it is affecting gameplay unless resolved. We have players rolling off of leather wearing classes just because of how much easier it is to gear up anyone wearing mail or plate. 

Edited by Phr00t

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1 hour ago, Ble said:

I think you're just doing it wrong(ly):

unknown.png

Now put that next to the screenshot of 4 people hitting motherlodes for 4 hours.

Also screenshot the durability on the gear of both parties.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

Now put that next to the screenshot of 4 people hitting motherlodes for 4 hours.

Put that next to a screenshot from a solo miner doing laps of a keep, just hitting the normal nodes for 4 hours. He'd have all 5 ore types and a pile of dust, all while never going more than a minute or two from a safe banking spot.

The gold nerf took a big bite. Before that, I may have come back with fewer resources for the time spent, but I had gold.

The armor durability change is another bite. Spending half my time in combat stance is shredding my gear while I, wait for it... farm material to make gear. It's still net positive, but wow...

The beneficial 'fix' has turned beneficial harvest into a small time lottery system that is not worth betting on. Skinners have 2 modes of operation:

  1. They're running solo on a small spawn. Kill 3 mobs, skin them. Wait. Rinse & repeat. Lets give our skinner good training and gear for ~33% chance to proc. On mob 1 there's only a 1 in 3 chance to proc, odds are no stamina regen & no crit bonus. On Mob 2, there's a 33% chance to proc, or ~54% running chance of a single proc. On Mob 3, who cares, there's no benefit. 
  2. They're running with a group on a large nest. There are more corpses on the ground than they can skin before despawn, but we have to stand around waiting for stam while guildies are fighting to keep mobs off us (loving the KDs while I'm trying to regen stamina). Assuming the same skinner from above, one time in 3 there's a proc to help with stam for the next mob. the rest of the time... (cue elevator music).

If I run out of stamina, having any left over beneficial buff is of no help while I just stand there. If I can't count on beneficial for Stam, I'd rather just gear for Crit Chance/Amount. It's really starting to look like Villein is out, hoarder is in, and knives are going to go fast.

On the plus side, I've found good spawns for spiders, wolves, elk, auroch & pigs. Haven't looks for cats yet. It's still sparsely scattered all over the map, where ore, stone & tree harvesters can just step out the front door of any keep, but for a second campaign in a row skinners do have quality and choice.

BTW... do mobs go out of their way to target the guy in survival stance? These things are charging past an entire combat party that's slaughtering their friends & family to come after the guy that's just taking a breather.

Edited by VaMei

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

Now put that next to the screenshot of 4 people hitting motherlodes for 4 hours.

3 people hitting MLs for 1 hour:

unknown.png

RIP Skinners.

P.S. in4 ML drops rates are getting nerfhammered after this screenshot.

Edited by ComradeAma

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2 minutes ago, ComradeAma said:

3 people hitting MLs for 1 hour:

unknown.png

RIP Skinners.

P.S. in4 ML drops rates are getting nerfhammered after this screenshot.

this is not a full drop coz common resources not included 😃


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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21 minutes ago, ComradeAma said:

3 people hitting MLs for 1 hour:

unknown.png

RIP Skinners.

P.S. in4 ML drops rates are getting nerfhammered after this screenshot.

dedicated 4 hours to a good route of ore ML's a couple camps ago and we walked away with a lot more, really just shows how screwed leather is


hoayaga2.jpg

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I challenge the devs to gear a 20 man guild in blue armor, split up in 3rds. 1/3 leather 1/3 mail 1/3 plate. Actually play the game in the same area as the rest of us. Leather padding included, no cheating. Willing to bet it would take one day of that bullsquat until you make changes. At least make it so dust explodes out while I skin. 

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Ya'll acting like they don't know or they are doing intentionally.  There's a lot being worked on and they have heard people, for years, inform them that LW is getting the short end of the stick.  I don't always agree with the dev team, I am often a loud critic of them, but they are making a complicated game and its a long, arduous and tedious task.

"It's late at night, Emperor Blair is surrounded by cats, d20's, collected tears of the community and on the ground is the smashed bits of last jedi collectibles.  He's knows hes a busy man, he has tons of things to work on but he is taking a moment to charge up and read the boards.  He goes from thread to thread, collecting our sadness and making a list.  It's then he see's a great source of untapped power: the 45th crying thread about leather.  He knows it's a great feast for him to consume and then finally rest but he can't help himself so he uses his admin powers and reduces the leather loot tables by 1."

  giphy.gif

^ the above is how I feel the LW community pictures Blair. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Pointing out issues and pain points is the purpose of the testing, we're not saying "BLAIR IS RUINING OUR LIVES" but more "Hey this totally sucks really bad, worse than you are probably aware of, please fix it"

Considering the last dev stream they thought skinning was in a good place ("People go hunting and the leather is a bonus") it is our responsibility, as testers, to point out to the devs that this is not the case.

 

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1 minute ago, Phr00t said:

Pointing out issues and pain points is the purpose of the testing, we're not saying "BLAIR IS RUINING OUR LIVES" but more "Hey this totally sucks really bad, worse than you are probably aware of, please fix it"

Considering the last dev stream they thought skinning was in a good place ("People go hunting and the leather is a bonus") it is our responsibility, as testers, to point out to the devs that this is not the case.

 

They have said that they know LW needs a mother load style node just not sure how to do it. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)

Current main issues with skinning and suggestions to fix, as I see them

1) Time to kill and durability loss.
   Skinning is unique from other gathering professions where we must first kill our resource node. With the introduction of 5.8.6 and gold being removed from monsters, the main purpose of targeting skinnable monsters is the hide. You may argue that targeting these for Major Disciplines is a side goal, but after farming Rank 9's for 3+ hours last night with a group of 5 and only seeing one Major Discipline drop, this is not the actual method that anyone is farming these disciplines presently and not significant enough of a reward to target farm in this fashion. 

Secondarily, no other gathering profession takes a durability hit to equipped gear to be able to harvest. Sure you may need to kill a spider or two while you run to the next motherlode, but Skinners have to deal with weapon, armor, AND tool durability. 
On top of this, the skinning 'node' itself seems to take longer than mining or quarrying nodes. It regularly takes longer to skin a node, with full training, than to kill the monster.

Potential Solution: Decrease the HP of the skinning "node" by 50% or more, or double the rewards from each skinning stage. Additionally, re-working skinning knife and/or armor decay may be required

2) Leatherworking Component Requirements

Leatherworking requires more component materials to craft than any blacksmithing armor does. To quantify:

A full set of leather armor requires 366 hide, and 75 ore. 
A full set of plate armor requires 258 ore + 42 hides.

This is significantly out of proportion, especially considering the quantity difference between skinning single nodes and motherlode harvesting for ore.

Potential Solution: Reduce the required leather components. For example, boots/helm/gloves require a minimum of 60 hide for leather squares. Reduce this by 33-50% to bring more in line, or be even MORE attractive than ore-based armor. 

3) Motherlode inequality

ACE has mentioned that they want to introduce Skinning motherlodes, but I hope there are more to these than just more hide.

Ore motherlodes provide the primary ingredients for weapons, armor, and jewellery
Stone motherlodes provide the primary ingredients for vessels and philosopher stones
Skinning (no motherlodes) provide the primary ingredients for leather armor, and secondary ingredients for potions and jewelery.

Given the discrepancy between these harvesting professions, if asked by someone if we would want another leather-wearer or a mail or plate wearer, we try to push them away from leather classes.

Potential Solution: Add something more than just hide to skinning motherlodes when introduced, such as disciplines, significant amounts of dust, embers, etc.


 


 

Edited by Phr00t

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19 minutes ago, mandalore said:

They have said that they know LW needs a mother load style node just not sure how to do it. 

Sure is a good thing they feel comfortable rebalancing the entire crafting economy while a third of its resource requirements are admittedly broken.

I mean it's not like they've ever used a temporary system to substitute for an unimplemented future system so that things that depend on it have their impact gauged more accurately.

Better leave it broken until the leather motherlodes are ready. This won't adversely effect testing anything else at all.


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14 minutes ago, mandalore said:

They have said that they know LW needs a mother load style node just not sure how to do it. 

Not that complicated. Ancients/bosses = motherload

but you’re still missing the point. What 1 person can provide for their effort in gathering is not anywhere near equal when it comes to skinning. Then add in durability loss and the new mob skills removing the face tank aspect. Motherloads don’t really address the issue. It will remain the far less efficient gathering skill. 

Imo, adding dust/embers to the drop table for skinning will silence most complaints. Giving a slight boost to the colored drop rate at night would go a long way too. 

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