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SmokinJoker46290

Questions for the Devs!

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1 minute ago, Zatch said:

Yes,  a post with the same five isues complained about for the last five years is the defenition of relevance.  Ill sum up everything in 5 sentences:

 

Population balance will be an issue in any faction game. Performwnce-while significantly improved from the dumpster fire of 5.5,-is still bad. Guild banks will be added when the guild system is added. Gear durability has and will continue to be in flux. Game systems are coming online as they're ready. Balance and fun don't matter at this poinr; its about getting the systems in game.

Is this more productive bucko? Its only been written 1000s of times I'm sorry I cant be bothered to care about the same five give complaints that have been addressed multiple times over the years.

If you can't be bothered to care about the same complaints, why are you replying to this thread?

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22 minutes ago, Zatch said:

I'm sorry I cant be bothered to care about the same five give complaints that have been addressed multiple times over the years.

This is exactly one of the problems here. If the community has addressed these issues "MULTIPLE TIMES OVER THE YEARS"  then why are they still an issue to this day? it wouldn't be hard to make temporary craftable boxes for EK's to use as a guild bank for now. Or at the very least do a performance tweak so we dont have mass disconnects and broken games during siege times instead of adding more stuff that's broken.  If these 5 problems have been a PROBLEM for years now then what is the point of us testing and voicing our opinions just to be givin half ass excuses. 

 

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, mandalore said:

The most HoA has had is 24-26 and that was the first trial, several months ago.  For the trial of Illaria, there's roughly 10-15 and last night there were 11.  I get that your upset but don't let confirmation bias give you some cognitive dissonance in the face of facts.  If you think there were 100 Balance then that means there was nobody else in the zone since the cap is 100 (thats a zone cap, not a faction cap). 

People often struggle with the idea of they or their friends are to blame when they lost but you should take a deep hard look at your own choices before you falsely accuse people of shenanigans and zerging.

Alright, I feel like I have to step in here. When SmokinJoker mentions numbers, he's not talking about in one zone; obviously that would be silly because Chaos and Order combined were about 45 people, so the most Balance could have had in the last fight was 55, and it's likely to have been 10 or so less because of random gatherers and spies.

Balance has shown regularly that they can field enough to put up a strong defense at two keeps. 100 may be an exaggeration, but I certainly don't think it's more than double the reality. The truth probably lies in between somewhere.

That said, props to Balance for being able to do that. Zerging seems to imply lack of individual skill so the group has to rely on numbers; I can tell you from fighting Winterblades and HoA frequently that skill is not in question. No, claiming a side is zerging is just a way of expressing frustration over a numerical disadvantage. If you have more people, bring them. Why tell some of your own guys that they can't come to a siege? That's the only alternative and that's silly.

I think the point SmokinJoker is making is that we've seen people jump to the faction that has the numbers. People want to win, and that's the path of least resistance in a lot of cases. But that only makes the winning side even stronger. Most of Order used to be Chaos and both factions have grown since the split so I think if we merged again we'd be equal to Balance, but then we'll just always be zone capped and people will be sitting out in a queue while the fighting is happening and that's just not fun. That leads to sitting in zone hours ahead of time, and honestly I'm glad that time is behind us.

At this point, the most fun is when Chaos and Order fight each other and Balance stays out of it. I think many on Order and Chaos would agree with me on that. And that's unfortunate. But when you have a faction that's good because they're skilled and organized, and then you see other groups and individuals join that faction on top of that, it creates a cascade effect. That's, ultimately, the problem.

That said, Corvus Citadel will always be Chaos and we've shown that we don't give up. So we'll see you on the battlefield. :)

Edited by Thimble
Blazzen clarified Order numbers in the next post, so I adjusted my estimate accordingly.

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Corvus Citadel is recruiting!

Come hang out with us on Discord

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6 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Order had 29 in discord last night and I don't think everyone was in zone for the last keep fight last night. Maybe 25 order actually in zone. And the zone was capped at 100. 

I’m pretty sure we had less than 20 in that. Several of our squad got queued. So that’s less than 50 of order and chaos combined. 🤔 

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33 minutes ago, Thimble said:

Most of Order used to be Chaos and both factions have grown since the split so I think if we merged again we'd be equal to Balance

I appreciate your attempts to tone down the OP's exaggerations, but you are still way off. Balance numbers do not match Order and Chaos combined. Its not even close to that.

These topics could be more fruitfully discussed without derailing them with false claims about Balance numbers.

Yes, the current faction mechanics would allow everyone to join the same faction and win effortlessly. Something probably needs to be done about that mechanic. But, no, it has not happened.


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8 minutes ago, Jah said:

I appreciate your attempts to tone down the OP's exaggerations, but you are still way off. Balance numbers do not match Order and Chaos combined. Its not even close to that.

These topics could be more fruitfully discussed without derailing them with false claims about Balance numbers.

Yes, the current faction mechanics would allow everyone to join the same faction and win effortlessly. Something probably needs to be done about that mechanic. But, no, it has not happened.

Going to have to start shaming them and posting SS of numbers with time stamps. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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39 minutes ago, oneply said:

I’m pretty sure we had less than 20 in that. Several of our squad got queued. So that’s less than 50 of order and chaos combined. 🤔 

Sounds about right


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Posted (edited)

Based on my coordination chat with Order last night and the head count we did when the zone capped the organized Order and Chaos forces combined were floating somewhere between 40-50 people. If there were more they were not working with either command group and were not included in our math. The only other active siege group on Chaos to my knowledge is FoE and they were not present as far as I knew unless they were off capping a fort or something in the same zone.

Based on rough head counts at the earlier skirmishes during the siege before the zone lock we thought their was around 20-30 balance at each keep they defended. There is a chance they just moved people around quickly so it seemed like there were more, but that wouldn’t explain the zone cap either, so I’m not sure. I suppose there’s also a chance we counted poorly during the skirmish but the cap later seemed to indicate we were close.

Even if we outnumbered Balance say 60 to 40 combined given the asynchronous action I’m not particularly surprised at the outcomes and have no real complaints to make. We’re getting better and we’re bringing a lot of new people up to speed so I’m fairly happy with our progress and showing.

The keep Order took was captured by a lone player jumping the wall and wailing on the tree for 15 mins and did not represent a commitment of anyone’s forces.

Edited by Duffy

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Duffy said:

 If there were more they were not working with either command group and were not included in our math.

This is often one of the reasons people underestimate their own faction numbers and overestimate the enemy faction numbers.

If you are only counting the people you are coordinating with, and then subtracting those numbers from the 100 person zone cap to estimate Balance numbers, you are actually counting your own uncoordinated Chaos and Order groups as part of Balance faction.

Edited by Jah

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1 hour ago, DocHollidaze said:

It just seems like a numerical imbalance because I was finally able to show up proper to a siege for once. I have an outsized effect on everything in this game.

Reported for overt and reckless use of the truth bomb. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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3 hours ago, Jah said:

This is often one of the reasons people underestimate their own faction numbers and overestimate the enemy faction numbers.

If you are only counting the people you are coordinating with, and then subtracting those numbers from the 100 person zone cap to estimate Balance numbers, you are actually counting your own uncoordinated Chaos and Order groups as part of Balance faction.

Of course no one has proved those uncoordinated groups exist and crossed the map mid siege time to not participate or do anything that anyone could see. The current math seems to line up pretty closely based on observation that the active balance throughout the night was pretty close to the same size as the combined active chaos and order last night, with maybe a +/- 10 people. 

If their was some hidden chaos or order tipping the population caps...where were you and what were you doing?


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1 minute ago, Duffy said:

observation that the active balance throughout the night was pretty close to the same size as the combined active chaos and order last night, with maybe a +/- 10 people. 

You admitted yourself that you don't know how many of us switched between the two active siege zones, so I don't know why you persist in claiming that Balance matches both other factions combined in players. You don't have accurate information, it is political propaganda at best, and only serves to derail what is otherwise a game feedback thread.


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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Jah said:

You admitted yourself that you don't know how many of us switched between the two active siege zones, so I don't know why you persist in claiming that Balance matches both other factions combined in players. You don't have accurate information, it is political propaganda at best, and only serves to derail what is otherwise a game feedback thread.

I admitted it was possible but it didn’t seem to match other info. I’m also well aware of how futile this discussion is. If your numbers are right then there was an unaccounted for 20+ players active in a siege zone that no one can find. 

My observations: We setup at Aerynth with our 21, hit the wall to half before a similar size group sallied out and wiped the trebs and most of us. Stealth team was mostly alive and head counting and scouting. Around us rezzing Order breached the other side of the keep and started pushing in. By the time they wiped we had recalled and headed to Thracia (after a slight detour to our keep and missing it getting soloed by Order) where we wiped again against another similar sized group to us. Thus we attacked two locations in relatively quick succession while Order was fighting at one keep. I suppose it’s possible that there was a very quick recall and transition but if that happened then the original keep was close to free for Order to take and we flubbed the advantage.

We reset again to temple based on bad intel due to UI bugs, so we ended up running back to Thracia from Aerynth as the bane trees went down. As we started zoning into Thracia our last group hit the zone cap, right about the time the Aerynth Balance defenders should have made it back to Thracia via their temple. We took out 4 or 5 as they finished a bane tree then rushed the last tree to die, which easily had 30ish balance on it at the very least.

So it appears when the observed numbers and events are put together there was similar numbers. If there wasn’t, which is technically plausible, balance managed to masterfully or luckily move around folks to counter our admittedly somewhat random decision making last night. Which means there is a mystery 20ish players in zone nobody can find. Maybe they’re a mix of factions, maybe they’re not, I don’t know. So if those mystery players are out there, speak up and resolve this for us, otherwise this is all futile propaganda as you stated.

And ultimately I don’t really care about the numbers aside from gauging when I should be happy about our successful fights or not.

Last time we argued about numbers at a fort fight a week or two ago we went over the recording and found we were right, so I’m skeptical of any propsoed numbers. Without video it’s mostly hearsay for this.

Also note I’m not arguing for any changes nor do I think they should do anything to mess with faction numbers regardless of all this. I only replied due to the ninja edit to state a maybe as a fact in an attempt to “win” the argument, I have nothing else to add at this point and I was/am content to leave it a little nebulous and with a possible margin of error, but please don’t think I trust opponents to be honest or play fair if they can’t show the hard evidence either.

That’s how you lose keeps to a solo player 😛

 

Edited by Duffy

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5 minutes ago, Duffy said:

If your numbers are right then there was an unaccounted for 20+ players active in a siege zone that no one can find. 
....
Which means there is a mystery 20ish players in zone nobody can find.

At this stage, I wouldn't find it that mysterious that we can't "find" accurate counts of everyone in the zone. We are dealing with estimates and self-reported numbers from various groups about their own numbers.


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5 minutes ago, Jah said:

At this stage, I wouldn't find it that mysterious that we can't "find" accurate counts of everyone in the zone. We are dealing with estimates and self-reported numbers from various groups about their own numbers.

Order and chaos have accounted for every known member in the zone, if youd like I'm sure we'd all be happy to screenshot our discords tonight, there really aren't many rogue players in siege zones especially ones that arent directly next to their own gate, most rogue players are in adventure zones struggling to get the bare minimum 

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3 minutes ago, Staff said:

Order and chaos have accounted for every known member in the zone, if youd like I'm sure we'd all be happy to screenshot our discords tonight, there really aren't many rogue players in siege zones especially ones that arent directly next to their own gate, most rogue players are in adventure zones struggling to get the bare minimum 

Order and Chaos have self-reported their own numbers for the groups that were actively coordinating together. And while I have no idea how accurate those numbers are, and I have no idea how many "rogue players" there are, I do know that I've seen random untagged players from all three factions in the siege zones during sieges. They certainly exist.

My point is that you don't actually know how many Balance players there are, and so should neither claim that we outnumber someone 100 to 25, as the OP did, or that we match the numbers of Chaos plus Order combined, as Duffy did. These are not claims based on facts.

Screenshots of discord channels would be something, but I'm not sure there is much to be gained from it. As soon as it is established that Balance doesn't outnumber everyone, the goal post would move to some other claim, as happened a few Trials ago when similar claims were being made and I started posting screenshots of /who that proved them wrong.


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