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How To Slow Down Random Killers


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I'm the same way... I don't PVP and I like to play for fun.  I guess you could say I am a recreational player.  Most bugs I find are glitches and grammatical errors.  So I am a moderate player.  That being said, PVP never struck me as fun.  Mainly because people can be so immature when they win or lose.  I prefer fighting npcs/monsters for that reason and enjoying the story-line for what it is.  Even so, I am not opposed to trying PVP.

I think of it like this:

  • PvE gets boring quickly, because the AI for the monsters is easy to predict.
  • In PvP, other players are the most challenging monsters.
  • Crowfall will have strategic reasons to fight other players, and rewards for doing PvP well.

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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go find a guild...they'll protect you   politics will be a form of consequence... and we'll have plenty of that

This is a FANTASY game.   Not sure what real life has to do with it.  I have not encountered a gun toting Guinea Pig at the local Wally World in forever.  

LOL   There's enough games for Carebear scrubs. I hope you die until you quit the game.

LOL

 

There's enough games for Carebear scrubs. I hope you die until you quit the game.

This.

 

@OP - If you want to be a carebear, then don't try to modify the gameplay of a PVP focused game to suit yourself. Leave and find another game, or harden up.

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why do you need Code for any of these things you mention? perfectly fine being done by other Players themselves, is it not?

 

that appears to be the crux...

 

and for the Record, i did play UO and DAoC....i just enjoyed EVE and SB more...for reasons which should be fairly obvious by now to most gentle Readers of these forums...

 

everything you mention in what i Quoted is to be desired....but it should be done by and with Players, not by Code....and that's my real Point of Contention here

 

you keep stating that only "big guilds" can do these things...how do you KNOW such things for certain, i am very interested in where this canard comes from

 

are there things "big guilds" should be able to do that a soloist or 5 man squad cannot do?

 

i sure as hell hope so....and vice versa....

 

do i want special artificial mechanics to be put in place to ensure such things?

 

no thanks....the Players will handle all that and more in an open environment with a decent toolset.... and i recognize that you think part of the requirements of a good "toolset" includes things that you are talking about...

 

my point is that the "set" should be Player determined as much as possible...what tools they carry, how many of them....the Code behidn the World should be as unobtrusive as Physics, imo

 

your mileage may vary...

 

Because in my experience leaving it to the players doesn't work most of the time and  a large amount of people fall through the cracks (especially those not in guilds or small guilds), and it also opens it up for many people to get trolled/griefed.

 

IE the bounty system.

 

How do you know the person you hire actually found the person you put a bounty on? How do you process the rewards? Would players simply spam chat "Offering bounty for >player name<?"  Having no game mechanics to support a bounty system I think largely players wouldn't do it themselves at all or they'd just be full of people trolling others and not giving the rewards or anything.

 

As I said I have never played an mmo where players themselves did anything like this with "bounties" and the game had no system in place to help support it.

 

I keep stating for big guilds because that is the example most people are using for how players will do it themselves, by being in guilds. Guilds that keep "lists" and guilds that help you get revenge on pkers and so on.  If you aren't in a big guild, or if you're in a small'ish guild or one that isn't structured that well with no lists then what? I have been through many guilds over the years. A lot of them had little/no structure, players come in, players go out, things change, it's quite hard to find a good solid guild that keeps strong leadership and does all the things people in this thread want them to be able to do (IE bounty system, lists of players that wronged them, etc).

 

So I am just trying to figure out how the game itself having a mechanic in game for players to post bounties, players to collect bounties, is somehow going to take anything "away" from the game. It's merely a tool that promotes players to use it and allows all players, lone wolves, guilds or not, to partake in it. No one is "losing" anything by having this in place, at least from what I can see. Where's the freedom being lost with this? That is what I am trying to figure out from the past few comments. Just an example or something that this takes away something or takes freedom away from players in any way.

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So I am just trying to figure out how the game itself having a mechanic in game for players to post bounties, players to collect bounties, is somehow going to take anything "away" from the game. It's merely a tool that promotes players to use it and allows all players, lone wolves, guilds or not, to partake in it. No one is "losing" anything by having this in place, at least from what I can see. Where's the freedom being lost with this? That is what I am trying to figure out from the past few comments. Just an example or something that this takes away something or takes freedom away from players in any way.

 

 

A hardcoded merc or bountry system takes away from the game because it hard codes it. You set it, someone completes it, done deal.

If it's as simple as a gentleman's agreement -- then the bounty agreement is now subject to players not following a hard coded outcome. Maybe I decide to turn on my bounty payer. Maybe I want to lie, get the gold before hand, and then go on my own way.

 

Maybe I want to play bounties on people myself without any real intention of paying. Point is, as long as it's player driven, it's dynamic. A hard coded system is not. Every time you hard code a system in, it is no longer subject to player decided change. It's just that -- hard coded.

 

Political forums and discussion between players is all that's needed to set into motion every single mechanic you've asked for, and it allows for political manuevering.

Edited by fuggeroffuggington

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Fugger of Fuggington - Shadowbane

SkippyBojangle - PS4

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I believe what we are trying to say is that players will get horrible reputations if they choose to partake in activity that is detrimental to the player base. They won't be able to get in major guilds or groups since they will cause too many problems. They will most likely be kill on sight for the entire campaign. The other side of the coin is that again we have multiple world/campaign rule sets that will give players the option to play outside of the PK environment (primarily the FFA campaign). Developers have also stated that punishments will come from friendly fire, we don't have a real clue as to what those are just yet.

 

Taking the example from UO for the bounty board, they were hardly used and just ended up being more abused anyway. The problem isn't that it is a bad idea. It really works great on paper, but most games that have tried this feature either remove it or it gets little use.

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 i'll try and keep things simple and explain as clearly as i can...

Because in my experience leaving it to the players doesn't work most of the time and  a large amount of people fall through the cracks (especially those not in guilds or small guilds), and it also opens it up for many people to get trolled/griefed.

 

IE the bounty system

 

Objection your Honor...anecdotal at best, examples were given that clearly demonstrate postulated approach working in those aforementioned Games, no PvP centric game has been mentioned to counter...the closest is the total RvR in DAoC which is in no way similar....UO is a given, yet how badly the red/bounty system was abused and bypassed appears to also have been ignored...

 

How do you know the person you hire actually found the person you put a bounty on? How do you process the rewards? Would players simply spam chat "Offering bounty for >player name<?"  Having no game mechanics to support a bounty system I think largely players wouldn't do it themselves at all or they'd just be full of people posting others and not giving the rewards or anything.

 

As I said I have never played an mmo where players themselves did anything like this with "bounties" and the game had no system in place to help support it.

 

Doc sez: yep...it would be up to the Players to enforce, somebody doesn't pay? go kill him...a lot, post that he is a deadbeat on the Forums, spread the Word...it's called a Reputation and the ONLY one that really counts is the one held by the Players.... why do you need any other mechanisms besides the Players and the Forums for what is, a social issue?

 

I keep stating for big guilds because that is the example most people are using for how players will do it themselves, by being in guilds. Guilds that keep "lists" and guilds that help you get revenge on pkers and so on.  If you aren't in a big guild, or if you're in a small'ish guild or one that isn't structured that well with no lists then what? I have been through many guilds over the years. A lot of them had little/no structure, players come in, players go out, things change, it's quite hard to find a good solid guild that keeps strong leadership and does all the things people in this thread want them to be able to do (IE bounty system, lists of players that wronged them, etc).

 

if you or your Group can't handle their problems...might i suggest you are doing it wrong and perhaps either seek help, get better or avoid places you obviously don't belong in Game? one Question in return here...what is a "big" Guild to you?

 

So I am just trying to figure out how the game itself having a mechanic in game for players to post bounties, players to collect bounties, is somehow going to take anything "away" from the game. It's merely a tool that promotes players to use it and allows all players, lone wolves, guilds or not, to partake in it. No one is "losing" anything by having this in place, at least from what I can see. Where's the freedom being lost with this? That is what I am trying to figure out from the past few comments. Just an example or something that this takes away something or takes freedom away from players in any way.

 

any Code that is not needed to run a Game is superfluous by definition....in my own personal Opinion, this kind of Code is not needed to fulfill the function within the Game....

 

i appreciate you having a different opinion....i just don't agree with it

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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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This.

 

@OP - If you want to be a carebear, then don't try to modify the gameplay of a PVP focused game to suit yourself. Leave and find another game, or harden up.

 

 If you knew where that term was from you'd see the irony (UO, ffa pvp game with consequences for pk'ing, which is what the op is asking for).

 

 

In an FFA PVP game (keep in mind , crowfall will have different rulesets for the realms, we already know about faction vs faction, guild vs guild, so there might be ffa for one)  it's far more enjoyable to have all types of players, from those that do not "wish" to pvp (gasp) to pkers (who prey on the neutrals, usually crafters/gathers) and the anti-pkers (those who fight pkers/protect the neutrla players).

 

Having all types of players creates a gameworld that's much more varied and filled with players, that while not directly impacting you, but rather through a "ripple" like efffect it can affect other aspects of the game and players.

 

The crafters/gathers make the things you need (armor, tools, etc), in turn the pkers try to ambush other players and take their loot, which in turn gives anti-pkers people to fight against all while it feeds back into the crafters and others making the items all players need.

 

Everything is connected in different ways and having a system of consequences helps promote a more balanced community of players , instead of simply everyone being a pker it gives reasons for people not to pk, for people to go anti pk, etc.

 

Also keep in mind, pk'ing does not mean PVP, you can still have guild vs guild warfare, factions, etc and pk'ing is a separate thing apart from this. So you can have a guidl declare war on another, and fighting them wouldn't carry any consequenes like pk'ing someone could.

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 If you knew where that term was from you'd see the irony (UO, ffa pvp game with consequences for pk'ing, which is what the op is asking for).

 

 

In an FFA PVP game (keep in mind , crowfall will have different rulesets for the realms, we already know about faction vs faction, guild vs guild, so there might be ffa for one)  it's far more enjoyable to have all types of players, from those that do not "wish" to pvp (gasp) to pkers (who prey on the neutrals, usually crafters/gathers) and the anti-pkers (those who fight pkers/protect the neutrla players).

 

Having all types of players creates a gameworld that's much more varied and filled with players, that while not directly impacting you, but rather through a "ripple" like efffect it can affect other aspects of the game and players.

 

The crafters/gathers make the things you need (armor, tools, etc), in turn the pkers try to ambush other players and take their loot, which in turn gives anti-pkers people to fight against all while it feeds back into the crafters and others making the items all players need.

 

Everything is connected in different ways and having a system of consequences helps promote a more balanced community of players , instead of simply everyone being a pker it gives reasons for people not to pk, for people to go anti pk, etc.

 

Also keep in mind, pk'ing does not mean PVP, you can still have guild vs guild warfare, factions, etc and pk'ing is a separate thing apart from this. So you can have a guidl declare war on another, and fighting them wouldn't carry any consequenes like pk'ing someone could.

 

PKing does mean PvP. It's the old square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square argument. It is one facet of PvP. The developers here want to create a risk vs. reward system. It will be risky to be a PK on servers that allow it, people will amass to hunt you down if you are enough of a nuisance, but the reward could be great if you can snag all that freshly chopped lumber. Learn to group up and not travel alone as a way to protect yourself. Enhance your skills with your combat execution to better your chances of survival, or be left on the ground every single time naked and bleeding out.

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If you are a solo player and all you want to do is gather supplies out in the big bad world you have options. Play a stealth class and hide. Play a rat and dig a hole. Play a horse man and build him so he is awesome at escaping. Build the way you want to play.  ;)

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A hardcoded merc or bountry system takes away from the game because it hard codes it. You set it, someone completes it, done deal.

If it's as simple as a gentleman's agreement -- then the bounty agreement is now subject to players not following a hard coded outcome. Maybe I decide to turn on my bounty payer. Maybe I want to lie, get the gold before hand, and then go on my own way.

 

Maybe I want to play bounties on people myself without any real intention of paying. Point is, as long as it's player driven, it's dynamic. A hard coded system is not. Every time you hard code a system in, it is no longer subject to player decided change. It's just that -- hard coded.

 

Political forums and discussion between players is all that's needed to set into motion every single mechanic you've asked for, and it allows for political manuevering.

 

 

 

 

 i'll try and keep things simple and explain as clearly as i can...

 

any Code that is not needed to run a Game is superfluous by definition....in my own personal Opinion, this kind of Code is not needed to fulfill the function within the Game....

 

i appreciate you having a different opinion....i just don't agree with it.

 

Can either of you give me an example of a game that had no official "bounty" system support through in-game mechanics but the playerbase regularly on a daily basis did bounties with players constantly taking up bounty hunting jobs, being paid for them, etc?

 

In my experience with the pvp games I played, that had no actual "bounty" system, I hardly if ever saw players partaking in one through their own means.

 

I feel if the game doesn't actually have some kind of "bounty" system that's actually supported by the game itself that allows players to place bounties, collect, etc that you for the most part won't be having a bounty system that players actually engage in.

 

 

For example you suggest posting on the forums, a huge number of players that play mmo's do not even read the game forums, let alone on a regular enough basis to sustain a reputation system across a server that keeps up with a large number of people. Would you expect people to read someone's name and then remember it along with all the other people on their server? This to me again sounds liek something that "guilds" might do (IE keeping a check of reputation against other guilds and such).

 

As for "big" guilds? I consider say, the SA guild and others "big guilds. Having hundreds and hundreds of players

 

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@stiler.....

 

it's funny you should mention keeping track and such as something not to be desired...and thus ruling out much of player driven politics by omitting....

 

to an errant olde geezer who can tell you the rep and chunks of history for a few hundred players at least...on these forums

 

I do get what you are saying...and it's no game breaker to me if it's there.....

 

a large part of my objections to things like this boils down to a dislike of anything hardcoded that Players should deal with and because of that...any extra are wasted Resources that could be better utilized on more important things.....

 

could just be me...

FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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