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ferrat

Arbiter Cleric Suggestions

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Posted (edited)

When you fix "Divine Alacrity" make it work with either the heal or dps ult, this would give the class the ability choose to be a better off-healer with CC or a dps with CC.

the Arbiter passive could also benefit from being a bit more healy to make it feel more like an off heal spec. (Have it build support pow and dmg)

 

EDIT: To Help all CC specs globally we should consider a system that uses the hard/movement CC bonus % stat to increase the stam cost of breaking it with retaliate..... IE. at half value, if i have 30% hard CC bonus, if an enemy tries to retaliate MY CC it cost 15% more.

 

Edited by ferrat

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, ferrat said:

When you fix "Divine Alacrity" make it work with either the heal or dps ult, this would give the class the ability choose to be a better off-healer with CC or a dps with CC.

the Arbiter passive could also benefit from being a bit more healy to make it feel more like an off heal spec.

 

could we have one CC that debuffs retaliate costs or CC immunity time on the player(s) effected buy it for some time longer then the CC.. making it harder but not impossible to escape. 

or make increases to hard/movement CC bonus % increase the stam cost of breaking the casters CC..... IE at half value if i have 30% hard CC bonus, if an enemy tries to retaliate MY CC it cost 15% more.

 

Arbiter isn't a healer at all, not even a hybrid healer: its a hybrid dps/cc.  It's short 600 support power, lacks illuminate heal, hand of gods doesn't heal, no barrier for healing people at 50% or below and holy symbol loses it's 20% buffs to crit heal chance and crit heal amount.  All of it's abilities are about CC, DMG and durability.  Not a single talent in the arbiter specific line is a healing related talent. 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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Posted (edited)

thats the point and they get some support power in the line (Base 150 + spec 300 = 450). there is a solid dps line, there is a solid heal line, this should be the hybrid line. Comes with CC abilities and should allow the player to decide the direction of the rest. sub par DPS or sub par heals.

 

Edit: added exact support values

 

Edited by ferrat

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5 hours ago, ferrat said:

thats the point and they get some support power in the line even if its rooted in the base. there is a solid dps line, there is a solid heal line, this should be the hybrid line. Comes with CC abilities and should allow the player to decide the direction of the rest. sub par DPS or sub par heals.

 

I'm not arguing about what it SHOULD be, only Blair knows that.  Calling it a hybrid healer is like saying my bandage spec knight is also a hybrid healer: it lacks the tools to even marginally heal more than a bandage.  Archdruid is a true hybrid that does amazing dps in the process and some eh heals, Arbiter isn't a hybrid and I used to think it was too.  It's just a poorly built cc/dps hybrid. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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14 hours ago, ferrat said:

When you fix "Divine Alacrity" make it work with either the heal or dps ult, this would give the class the ability choose to be a better off-healer with CC or a dps with CC.

Fully agree with this. Tried to use that passive a few times after I specced it and was pretty disappointed. It's essentially a wasted point right now as it completely fails to do anything.

As to the overall viability of the class, I really enjoy it. Just don't try to force it to be something that it's not. Once you understand what it actually is and start building around that is when it starts to shine. I PMed you some general tips about playing it though I'm afraid I need to keep most of my tricks closer to the chest.


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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2 hours ago, mandalore said:

I'm not arguing about what it SHOULD be, only Blair knows that.  Calling it a hybrid healer is like saying my bandage spec knight is also a hybrid healer: it lacks the tools to even marginally heal more than a bandage.  Archdruid is a true hybrid that does amazing dps in the process and some eh heals, Arbiter isn't a hybrid and I used to think it was too.  It's just a poorly built cc/dps hybrid. 

i think you mis read my post, i'm asking to give it the option to be an off healer. not calling it one.. having your group insta refresh your ground target heal would let you be an off healer instead of a roaming bandaid... like you said

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3 minutes ago, ferrat said:

i think you mis read my post, i'm asking to give it the option to be an off healer. not calling it one.. having your group insta refresh your ground target heal would let you be an off healer instead of a roaming bandaid... like you said

They would have to add a lot of support power and add heals to its abilities at which point what’s the difference between the two cleric healers??


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, mandalore said:

They would have to add a lot of support power and add heals to its abilities at which point what’s the difference between the two cleric healers??

nah.... you can get 700+ support power on a naked arb easy, more would be nice but they dont need it for an Off healer build especialy if they made the passive build support power and dmg on CC.....

Edited by ferrat

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22 minutes ago, ferrat said:

nah.... you can get 700+ support power on a naked arb easy, more would be nice but they dont need it for an Off healer build especialy if they made the passive build support power and dmg on CC.....

700+ support power naked?  How? 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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19 hours ago, ferrat said:

When you fix "Divine Alacrity" make it work with either the heal or dps ult, this would give the class the ability choose to be a better off-healer with CC or a dps with CC.

Makes perfect sense to me, would give a bit more customization to your build to have the Ult option either way. I thought Arbiter was suprisingly fun when I tried it briefly on TEST but need that "Divine Alacrity" power fixed.


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2 hours ago, ferrat said:

Spec for it

Where did you get 700 from though? 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)

I think the biggest issue and it’s a all class wide issue is the one tree for each class is supposed CC.  I personally like the potential to do a little of everything.  I don’t think it should be able to do any respectable dmg.  It should be a CC disrupter first that can toss spot heals.  

KD/stuns/snare/KB and the ability to heal and slightly better than crusader Dps.  Maybe give them the option to debuff instead of some CC.

there is so much unused potential with this class.

 

Edit: I think a lot has to do with the complete lack of choice in what needs to be taken.  Add in a more robust tree to really create that diversity and uniqueness of potential specs would help.  I’m not convinced anything less than that will fix classes.

Edited by Zintair

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yea i think my suggestion of having the CC penetration stat of the caster increase the cost of the retaliate for the victim could fix alot of CC specs

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, ferrat said:

yea i think my suggestion of having the CC penetration stat of the caster increase the cost of the retaliate for the victim could fix alot of CC specs

They just need to improve the entire mechanic it can’t stay as it is.  One third of every single class is broke because of it.

Once it’s corrected to whatever system they implement I think the arbiter will shine I just don’t think it’s going to be one or two things that’s going to be enough.  There are sweeping game mechanic changes of sledgehammer nature that need to happen before we can start using the scalpel.

that being said...

on blue+ vessels you should be able to start hybridiIng your cleric.  Lots of int spirit and con could allow for a nice base of mixed stats.  Combined with some talent changes / rearranges I think the arbiter could Be a beast.

the class itself doesn’t need to support all this either you can assist which role you want to improve with your majors.

want to heal better pick pixie field surgeon whatever.  Want to be more mobile take jugg bard or escape artist etc etc

 

edit: @ferrat

That’s definitely an interesting fix, debugging to increase steam cost or actually just giving retaliate a cooldown of some significance could fix the issue.  I am more for increasing retaliate CD across the board to make all CC more valuable instead of just one type of CC.

 

but I’d need to see it in action too

Edited by Zintair

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Posted (edited)

I agree, BUT the CC tree should not force you to play as dps or heals. it should allow for both to help you leave the options open for majors. otherwise you will be very un-optimized

Edited by ferrat

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1 hour ago, ferrat said:

I agree, BUT the CC tree should not force you to play as dps or heals. it should allow for both to help you leave the options open for majors. otherwise you will be very un-optimized

This I agree with at least for cleric to a degree buT I think for choices for me I was hoping more heal or more cc options.  So one way could get you that added support power and another way could add more cc or enhance already have Cc so you can’t really be great at both type of thing. It should be the same for radical I think too for Dps abilities or stats or healing stats.

not sure I agree with cleric being able to fully Dps there is already plenty of that.

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I really think that Arbiter should be designed as the support promotion not the CC promotion (vs Crusader as the healing promotion). Focusing it all around CC in a pvp-focused game where CC has to be limited seems weird.

A great addition to Arbiter would be something like "Purgative" cleanse from Field Surgeon. https://malekai.org/powers/purgative

Add more support type things that are NOT heals, and NOT CC.


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