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Crafting Disappointment


Reecy
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I am a serious Craft monkey and I was actually excited to try this game out. I have been here offically 3 days and still I am not even able to get into the crafting professions. I find this majorly discouraging and actually ridiculous. My experience in this game has been a mixed bag. 

Please do not jump the gun and really read what I have to say if you are going to reply.

I can totally understand the investment you are looking for as far as crafters and that I think is great it. Early on when the game starts everyone will have a niche but when you do the math new players will be obsolete while Vets have all these different skills mastered. Now you are always behind the curve and quite frankly you are completely useless to anyone being out leveled and out geared and literally no way to catch up or help your faction. 

Doing the math you have to wait at least 10 days before you master one section at least and then you just get into the basics of the next or finally get into the craft you want and then you have wait another 10 days at least to master it. Now I tried going out and leveling while doing exploration and crafting and it was not very forgiving. I have to give up time in gathering or crafting to get buffed enough to be more effective. 

The world and the concept are awesome. But From where I am sitting if you are not a day player you have almost no incentive to play this game after its been live 6 months. And as a Crafter I was incapable of doing what I enjoy because I have to own the game for at least 20 days to even see a profession payoff and that is if I could figure out the convoluted STAT system to the Item quality.  Please let me know if I am missing something.

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We will be getting XP for harvesting/crafting activities added at some point in the future, so that will help with the leveling issue (so you can open the slots for crafting discs).

I do see some opportunities for newer crafters to focus on while waiting on the passive training for a desired specialization:

1. Craft white level starting gear/consumables, and sell or trade at prices low enough to be accessible for other new players that don't want to craft

2. Craft Artisan component parts, and help supply more advanced crafters like an apprentice role

3. Craft items like siege weapons and cooked food that don't rely on passive skill training for best results

4. Look to join a guild that can help you get up to speed faster

 

Part of the fun in a game like this is finding a niche where your current skills and character build meet a need in your team. Be creative in thinking about how you can contribute right now, it's not always necessary to be maxxed out in everything - that is a long term goal.

tiPrpwh.png

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Another thing the developers discussed, quite a long time ago, is that, after the game launches, there will be a catch up mechanic available, like a research book. Honestly I can't remember the whole concept. You will be able to purchase training, which should help. There are more experienced posters that could go into this a lot better than myself. 

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You just need a guild, which will handle your leveling, provide you resources and defense. Crafters are rare, most of us are combatants and will take any crafter we find. Your experience will massively improve one you stop playing solo.

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6 hours ago, Doomshadow said:

Another thing the developers discussed, quite a long time ago, is that, after the game launches, there will be a catch up mechanic available, like a research book. Honestly I can't remember the whole concept.

If I understand the concept correctly, it would be something like Eve's skill extractors/injectors, but the skill tomb would be tied to the skill tree it was extracted from.

Veteran player says to self, 'I've mastered combat, mining & blacksmithing, and I'm not actually interested in gathering or crafting beyond my immediate needs. Necro & Harvest Leadership have been selling well, so I'll train those and sell the skills.'

Afaik, actual mechanics have never been discussed, and are certainly not set in stone, so any details beyond "we can have veteran players create skill tombs for new players," is conjecture. Needless to say, it's not a huge priority at this phase of development.

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1 hour ago, VaMei said:

If I understand the concept correctly, it would be something like Eve's skill extractors/injectors, but the skill tomb would be tied to the skill tree it was extracted from.

Veteran player says to self, 'I've mastered combat, mining & blacksmithing, and I'm not actually interested in gathering or crafting beyond my immediate needs. Necro & Harvest Leadership have been selling well, so I'll train those and sell the skills.' 

Afaik, actual mechanics have never been discussed, and are certainly not set in stone, so any details beyond "we can have veteran players create skill tombs for new players," is conjecture. Needless to say, it's not a huge priority at this phase of development. 

This pretty much sums it up, though as I recall there was also a condition of having to master the tree before you can start making books. E.G. you can't devote your training time to a Blacksmithing" book unless you've 100% the "Blacksmithing" tree.

This approach is specifically to prevent low end trees from being too cheap to be worth selling and ensure a sompetitive market for books by restricting people's ability to bandwagon on to trends.

The other important element of this system Todd specifically mentioned was making sure it clamps total skill points so that one can not use books to gain more *total* points on an account than would be available to a day 1 account. E.G. you wouldn't be able, as a day 1 account, to use these books to actually combine the training of multiple accounts in a way that would result in you being more trained than you could have been if you were a day 1 player.

Edited by PopeUrban

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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Thank you for all the feedback but this brings up additional questions. 

As someone said most people are combatants and very few crafters I am one of those craft monkeys.

1. How does joining a guild progress skill points? - This is the specific bottle neck I am referring too, this is a static earned amount based on account time. So regardless of joining a guild or not you can not even start truely crafting for a week. 

2. Apprenticing was mentioned and tomes. I would definitly think this would be a far more productive use of the skill trees

   A. Take the Basic crafting  Tree and tier it out into apprentice branches that work based on how the skills overlap would perfect fill for that waiting process. You can spend points over the course of time try different professions and figure out your niche when you join up with a guild.

B. Tomes - I dont know if I agree with a tome idea. I think having a master Crafter be allowed to Link to X number of apprentices would increase their skill point earnings so you could can catch up more quickly. But have a stipulation that you can only do that with 1 profession ever.  It would allow guilds to be more organized and get people where they are needed if they needed a crafter.

3. I dont think the Low level tree needs to be cheap but it does need to be more related to the professions - As I mentioned before I can not even access the tree to start crafting at all and nothing unlocks new recipes  to give me something to do in the meantime.

 

As a new player to the game the issue I see is as a crafter, your path for where you want to get is very unclear. 

If I want to get to blacksmith per say Looking at the basic crafting tree you do not see anything in the tree that helps you get there minus tracing a line directly to that trade and there is nothing that unlocks on your way there to give you the ability to help from a lower level standpoint. All you can do is go out explore a bit and as you run into nodes that you can or are incapable of even farming. 
 

 I think the game has a lot of potential and this is coming from someone who is a dedicated crafter.

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1 minute ago, Jah said:

You don’t need to wait for training to start crafting. The advanced recipes are unlocked by crafting runes, not training.

Correct. You only need to get some gold and buy the disciplines from the vendors at the Temple for whatever profession you want to craft. 

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10 hours ago, miraluna said:

We will be getting XP for harvesting/crafting activities added at some point in the future, so that will help with the leveling issue (so you can open the slots for crafting discs).

I do see some opportunities for newer crafters to focus on while waiting on the passive training for a desired specialization:

1. Craft white level starting gear/consumables, and sell or trade at prices low enough to be accessible for other new players that don't want to craft

2. Craft Artisan component parts, and help supply more advanced crafters like an apprentice role

3. Craft items like siege weapons and cooked food that don't rely on passive skill training for best results

4. Look to join a guild that can help you get up to speed faster

 

Part of the fun in a game like this is finding a niche where your current skills and character build meet a need in your team. Be creative in thinking about how you can contribute right now, it's not always necessary to be maxxed out in everything - that is a long term goal.

Right now that is a pretty big missing piece.  With all the interdependence, and required crafting time, guild crafters simply don't waste time building white quality gear. 

There is certainly a niche for it. I have done quite well for myself this campaign selling white quality rune tools, despite anemic gold supply, AND the tax on a vendor.  Getting to the point of making those takes the initial sprint to rune crafting, and a table. 

There are plenty of white items that you can build to grease the wheels of other white crafters.  Leather padding for leather workers sells to armorers, and buckles from blacksmiths to leather armor crafters comes to mind.

Also cooking.  That can be done without training, and everyone can use those buffs.

New crafters belong to the public market, because none of the really good stuff makes it outside of the guilds. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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8 hours ago, Reecy said:

1. How does joining a guild progress skill points? - This is the specific bottle neck I am referring too, this is a static earned amount based on account time. So regardless of joining a guild or not you can not even start truely crafting for a week. 

So it's not very intuitive atm with no tutorial, but all the recipes are now available when you equip the appropriate Discipline Rune on your character sheet slot. These are sold on an npc vendor at the faction Temple marketplace area. Artisan is a minor Disc, and each crafting specialty has a Major Disc associated with it.  You'll need to be around level 15 to open that slot.

Once you have a crafting Disc equipped in one of your slots, you will need to go to a Fort, Keep, or Eternal Kingdom with advanced stations to see the recipes. The passive training improves your skill in a specialty so you can get better experimentation results and can work effectively with higher quality resources that increase the difficulty rating. As a new  crafter with low skill training, you would want to start working with white/green quality first, and the best customers for these items are other new players.

For some explanation on the math behind the crafting check out this developer livestream video (timestamp on the difficulty discussion):

 

tiPrpwh.png

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