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The State of Duelists, Fix Me!


Puffs
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The state of duelist is abysmal. 

Anyone who has played Duelist in any amount of time likely has noticed at least one of the issues I’m about to list. For those few Duelist mains out there like myself, you most certainly know the struggle. I will confess, I have not played every class, however I will still say that Duelists currently are the most broken. Not the “good” broken either, broken as in nothing works properly, and it hasn’t for a long time.

This is an utter shame, because in my opinion compared? They are in a good area, an area of not being overpowered, but yet not being useless. They could use a tweak here or there, but they’re somewhere in between. Balanced. Dirge (which has issues more often) has such great potential currently but simply is almost unplayable. For anyone that doesn’t know, it’s because our main abilities, especially on Dirge, just don’t work consistently. I’ll list the bugs:

  • Using Impale, it does not register, and goes on cooldown. This forces you to try again, or use something else and then try again(usually makes it work). My current record for how many times in a row it didn’t work is five.
  • Activating Inconceivable!, it does not register, and goes on global. (Both)
  • Activating Inconceivable!, it does not register, goes on global, and uses your pips. (Mainly Slayer)
  • Activating Redirect Pain, it does not register, and goes on cooldown. (Mainly Dirge)
  • Activating Redirect Pain, it does not register, goes on cooldown, and uses your pips. (Mainly Dirge)
  • Slayer’s Dynamite. I have seen it deal the damage/knock before the fuse, after, and way after the animation when an enemy comes back into it towards me. I will also add the range on it is extremely inconsistent, I’ve seen it miss at melee, and hit at over 15m.
  • Slayer’s Feeling Lucky stacks disappearing immediately after the transition from a stealth attack to the combat tray.
  • Feeling Lucky’s buff icon is still almost unreadable with a white square behind white numbers for the stacks.
  • Inconceivable!’s buffs losing visual representation on the pip tracker but still active and listed with other buffs.

These are what I can think of off the top of my head. There is something about Dirge that makes these issues occur much more often with Redirect Pain, and they all need to be fixed. What other class has this many bugs with all of their main abilities? It utterly breaks the class and how fun it is. All of this coupled with the issues on targeting that everyone suffers, Guinecean’s camera angle being so wonky, and basic attack registering? Why even touch the class when every rotation is 50/50 on if what you do will work?

After Slayer’s nerf to Pepperbox, our main hard hitter is Dynamite, which is already an extremely easy ult to shut down.. compared to let’s say Alpha that can deal upwards of 5k without a fuse timer for that damage and without buggy range.

I truly love Duelist, but these issues are so consistent it’s ridiculous and perhaps they’ll soon get attention.

Thanks for taking the time to read this! - Puffs 

Edited by Puffs
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On the Dirge:

redirect pain works every single time for me. Occasionally I don’t see the green numbers but my health bar goes up. 

Impale works 90% of the time in pve a lil less in PvP. The latter I think is due to resistances more so than a broken mechanic. I suspect the issue mainly lies in the way you’re playing or rather moving it. 

 

Also so would love if they would just allow us to move the crosshairs. Would vastly improve camera angle issues. 

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31 minutes ago, Phr00t said:

You must be one of the lucky ones, these abilities don't work reliably for most duelists @oneply

It used to not work consistently at all. Then after using force nova on another toon it gave me ideas as to why a few abilities do not work “right.” Not only did impale improve but so has my knights ult. 

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10 hours ago, oneply said:

On the Dirge:

redirect pain works every single time for me. Occasionally I don’t see the green numbers but my health bar goes up. 

Impale works 90% of the time in pve a lil less in PvP. The latter I think is due to resistances more so than a broken mechanic. I suspect the issue mainly lies in the way you’re playing or rather moving it. 

Either you’re extremely lucky, aren’t aware, or you think it’s working when it isn’t because life goes up for numerous reasons, or a mix of all. 

I’m a skinner, and I skin on a Dirge alt. So while I have the most hours on Slayer, I’ve spent tons of hours killing animals on Dirge. It definitely does not work every time, let alone 90%, same with RP, and in both PvE & PvP. 

Could you explain what you mean by resistances causing an ability to entirely not register, not consume pips, and yet go on cooldown, repeating up to 5 consecutive tries? My apologies but that makes absolutely no sense to me. 

Moving as in, moving my character and targeting an enemy? I’m quite confident in my ability to do so, and while I have a good few hours of PvP, most of my Dirge testing is PvE. Issues on both and all the same. No changes. If that’s not what you meant, please elaborate.

I thank you for the reply to my post. 

Edit: I should note that while I don’t have an exorbitant amount of time on Dirge in PvP? It is highly unlikely anyone can discern if it occurs more-so in PvE or PvP. 

We or at least I don’t know why these bugs occur, but a “feeling” of if it occurs more often in this or that is just speculation. I’ve farmed all night and morning multiple times, and they occurred consistently, while in comparison I had an instance of PvP and it happened once. A siege night? A couple, maybe a few.

There are just too many variables and the average player isn’t going to remember all that’s needed to accurately gauge that. In my feeling? Abilities work more often in PvP, but that could simply be because it doesn’t last as long. I don’t have much PvP time on Dirge compared, and that could likely be why I have that feeling. With the same reasoning, it could be why you feel they work more in PvE. 

Edited by Puffs
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On 4/27/2019 at 11:44 PM, Puffs said:

 

  • Using Impale, it does not register, and goes on cooldown. This forces you to try again, or use something else and then try again(usually makes it work). My current record for how many times in a row it didn’t work is five.
  • Activating Inconceivable!, it does not register, and goes on global. (Both)
  • Activating Inconceivable!, it does not register, goes on global, and uses your pips. (Mainly Slayer)
  • Activating Redirect Pain, it does not register, and goes on cooldown. (Mainly Dirge)
  • Activating Redirect Pain, it does not register, goes on cooldown, and uses your pips. (Mainly Dirge)
  • Slayer’s Dynamite. I have seen it deal the damage/knock before the fuse, after, and way after the animation when an enemy comes back into it towards me. I will also add the range on it is extremely inconsistent, I’ve seen it miss at melee, and hit at over 15m.
  • Slayer’s Feeling Lucky stacks disappearing immediately after the transition from a stealth attack to the combat tray.
  • Feeling Lucky’s buff icon is still almost unreadable with a white square behind white numbers for the stacks.
  • Inconceivable!’s buffs losing visual representation on the pip tracker but still active and listed with other buffs.

 

most of the issues is about retaliate bug right? last patch did it. do not use any of skills right after retaliate, just wait for 1-2 seconds. this hurt every single class. some classes have the same issues with other skills like parry and such.

all dirge skills working for me. impale have some delay and required aim reticle to be right on the target.

well, last patch can make some dirty things but before I tested this class quite decent.

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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if duelist is bad why are more people rolling duelist then, i havent seen this many duelists in top guilds since the days of 5k wallhax peppershots

hoayaga2.jpg

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@Puffs I’m being intentionally cryptic. I spent several hours on dirge last night. Every miss was repeatable, as in the same mistakes caused the misses. Every time my redirect pain worked. Not one single fail or global cooldown.

And you do realize there are resistances besides damage type right? PvP should be the least consistent. Mobs have built in resistances too, and pretty sure night changed it too. 

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8 hours ago, makkon said:

most of the issues is about retaliate bug right? last patch did it. do not use any of skills right after retaliate, just wait for 1-2 seconds. this hurt every single class. some classes have the same issues with other skills like parry and such.

all dirge skills working for me. impale have some delay and required aim reticle to be right on the target.

well, last patch can make some dirty things but before I tested this class quite decent.

Exactly. You need to have a bit of downtime between abilities, some intentionally are there to stop animation and let you reset basic attack, or go into another ability. There is a bit more de-sync with ranged as opposed to melee, however, there is at least an ability or two across all classes with much of the same behavior as your described @Puffs

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9 hours ago, Staff said:

if duelist is bad why are more people rolling duelist then, i havent seen this many duelists in top guilds since the days of 5k wallhax peppershots

Are you  implying that Balance is running duelist at sieges or is using a gank class to gank in skirmishes? 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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4 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Are you  implying that Balance is running duelist at sieges or is using a gank class to gank in skirmishes? 

Neither, I would never imply anything about my elven overlords and their pompous outfits but some classes are better for siege, some for ganking, if a class excells at one why should it be good at the other

hoayaga2.jpg

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1 hour ago, Allinavi said:

Exactly. You need to have a bit of downtime between abilities, some intentionally are there to stop animation and let you reset basic attack, or go into another ability. There is a bit more de-sync with ranged as opposed to melee, however, there is at least an ability or two across all classes with much of the same behavior as your described @Puffs

It was way more fun hinting to the solution then just plain spilling it. Animation and speed of skill are definitely not in sync with each other. Hoping 5.9 cleans that up. 

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7 hours ago, oneply said:

@Puffs I’m being intentionally cryptic. I spent several hours on dirge last night. Every miss was repeatable, as in the same mistakes caused the misses. Every time my redirect pain worked. Not one single fail or global cooldown.

And you do realize there are resistances besides damage type right? PvP should be the least consistent. Mobs have built in resistances too, and pretty sure night changed it too. 

If I’m incorrect and there is proof or something already known, being cryptic is likely the worst possible way to behave on the forums. I’d hope we’re all here for the same reason of bettering the game.

What type of resistances would ghost-use a player’s skills in this way, or is it a bug with them? If you’re talking about barriers or invulnerabilities, that type of resistance would still cause my ability to consume its pips, and as it should.

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14 hours ago, makkon said:

most of the issues is about retaliate bug right? last patch did it. do not use any of skills right after retaliate, just wait for 1-2 seconds. this hurt every single class. some classes have the same issues with other skills like parry and such.

all dirge skills working for me. impale have some delay and required aim reticle to be right on the target.

well, last patch can make some dirty things but before I tested this class quite decent.

I can’t recall having any issues on my Sin, or having issues immediately after retaliate while playing Slayer, but perhaps it affects Dirge more. Even then, I do recall it happening even when not having retaliated.

I’ll test a bit more with what I’ve been told on here as soon as I get the chance. Thanks for the reply!

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13 hours ago, Staff said:

if duelist is bad why are more people rolling duelist then, i havent seen this many duelists in top guilds since the days of 5k wallhax peppershots

You can still shoot through walls with it, aha.

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30 minutes ago, Puffs said:

I can’t recall having any issues on my Sin, or having issues immediately after retaliate while playing Slayer, but perhaps it affects Dirge more. Even then, I do recall it happening even when not having retaliated.

I’ll test a bit more with what I’ve been told on here as soon as I get the chance. Thanks for the reply!

you can Go for broke and use RMB to get stealth with normal speed 😃

well, 5.8.9 soon, so I think all those bugs will be fixed and new ones appear

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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15 hours ago, Puffs said:

What type of resistances would ghost-use a player’s skills in this way, or is it a bug with them? If you’re talking about barriers or invulnerabilities, that type of resistance would still cause my ability to consume its pips, and as it should.

Control Defense I believe. Check your combat details.

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8 hours ago, oneply said:

Control Defense I believe. Check your combat details.

As far as I'm aware Control Defense would not cause an ability to activate as if it was used (seeing the animation), and then set it on cooldown (without using pips). However, I could be entirely wrong as to how this mechanic works, many things in this game are vaguely explained, I think a lot of the text needs to be rewritten but in this case? I don't think I'm wrong.

Blind is quite obvious, suppress gives a notification, and cooldown reduction and former, would show a debuff. When this occurs I never have a debuff on me, so, not 100%. It's most likely the retaliate bug (for some of these) and me being out of date on that. I'll likely not be able to play again until after the fix, but I'm going to make sure I try to make it happen again and see if it was in fact that known bug.

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The new client controller update fixes most of the no regging stuff that takes your cooldowns. the biggest issue now will be broken animation and the fact that burrow now glitches you into walls and under floor panels you're not suppose to get into causing you to get stuck quite a bit. Happy to say that i hit a target dummy on test for like 5 minutes and didnt get bugged out ability not working as intended.

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