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Ble

The increasing PvE Requirement

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My opinion may be unpopular but the only way for the game to survive is for there to be great PvE. People complain about running for a long while without seeing anyone, but that is because there isn't jack crap to do in the game. You need enough people out there, doing those other activities to get the interest up, otherwise you end up running through a dead world, just like Shadowbane.

At the same time, the only way to make these other activities matter is for them to be worth something and if you are better at PvP as a result of your farming, then those activities matter. I think it is good that people are going to be in the world gathering. I think it is good they get ganked and I think it is fantastic that they feel they have to protect their nodes, their mob spawns and other areas from those killers. We need more of that and for that to mean something, harvesting and being out in the world has to matter to the PvPers.

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9 minutes ago, Spawl said:

My opinion may be unpopular but the only way for the game to survive is for there to be great PvE.

They don't have time to add PvE content. It is a very expensive part of development and takes far longer. Not only that, players would then want better graphics. 

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20 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

They don't have time to add PvE content. It is a very expensive part of development and takes far longer. Not only that, players would then want better graphics. 

Greatness takes time and great graphics is part of greatness.  of course we can strive for mediocrity and do just the minimum possible but than whats the point of that type of game.  for those who want strickly pvp ONLY.......  well they can always turn the game into a world of tanks style game where you que for matches.  give you all your gear and vessels and just let you duke it out but that would suck if this game turned into that.  PvE is important for a number of reasons and should not be ignored.  Like I've said before, PvP heavy game and a brutal PvP game but with a important PvE aspect.

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I wish the new drop for crafters were something you wanted instead of needed. For example the bs hammer you need to have treated steel. I would like to see if the hammer did something like it lower resource cost of a piece of armor instead. So again you dont have to need the drop to feel your on equal ground with another player. Instead you would want it because it would help you in another way.

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39 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

They don't have time to add PvE content. It is a very expensive part of development and takes far longer. Not only that, players would then want better graphics. 

I agree with Drizzzt, if you don't have any other reason to be in game it will just be a glorified match map game with an empty world. Not sure that will keep anyone interested. They don't need to add much and they already have much of that stuff planned but if they don't make the world interesting to be in, we won't be in the game.

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24 minutes ago, Drewcifer said:

I wish the new drop for crafters were something you wanted instead of needed. For example the bs hammer you need to have treated steel. I would like to see if the hammer did something like it lower resource cost of a piece of armor instead. So again you dont have to need the drop to feel your on equal ground with another player. Instead you would want it because it would help you in another way.

That’s excellent. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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16 minutes ago, Spawl said:

I agree with Drizzzt, if you don't have any other reason to be in game it will just be a glorified match map game with an empty world. Not sure that will keep anyone interested. They don't need to add much and they already have much of that stuff planned but if they don't make the world interesting to be in, we won't be in the game.

Sure but if the barrier is too high we won’t have anybody in the game either.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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1 hour ago, Spawl said:

My opinion may be unpopular but the only way for the game to survive is for there to be great PvE. People complain about running for a long while without seeing anyone, but that is because there isn't jack crap to do in the game. You need enough people out there, doing those other activities to get the interest up, otherwise you end up running through a dead world, just like Shadowbane.

But they aren't making "great PVE" nor having any of the other content that typically goes with it (NPCs, Quests, Locations to travel to, a point to the PVE).

Mobs are no different then rocks. A means to an end, gear. They make this million step process harvesting/crafting system putting the power into players hands and then add in Mob grinding RNG requiring players to grind basically forever.

I don't know if there is an easy solution, but I'd start with making more PVP/Conflict focused systems that get players engaging with one another beyond timed events. There can be more to a game then grind on mobs or do simple sieges.

As there isn't really any progress once a vessel is 30, it's just grinding for hopes at drops. They could at least have some sort of active progression for PVE and yes even PVP, almost like other games have done this before.

Albion Online isn't perfect at all but they seemed to have found the balance a bit better. It isn't a PVE game for sure, but PVE is at least somewhat satisfying with progression, dungeons, world bosses, etc. They even manage to do full loot PVP which seems too scary for this crowd due to the degree of grind required for gear which matters so much.

2 hours ago, Drizzzt said:

You know.  Having never played shadowbane, I had no idea it failed.  It always sounded like a successful game to hear people talk about it but if it failed, why try to emulate it?????  If it failed, scrap the entire concept, distance your self from the "failed game" and work to make a better game.  sure you can incorporate things that worked from shadowbane into the new game.  Just don't link yourselves to the "failed game"  I will tell you a game these guys have "allegedly" worked on that didn't fail.  Eve online.  Maybe take some examples from that (which they have with their passive training system) but base them NOT in space of course and in a game of thrones style game..... just an idea :)  :)  

Who worked on EVE? When the 3 top devs come from SWG, SB, and UO you can believe they are going to use that and they did just that to get our money. If they were random nobodies I doubt they would of made it past Kickstarter. Not sure anyone worked on EVE as a dev, but they used it as a selling hype point as well even though EVE and CF have little in common when it comes down to actual implementation of features.

Shadowbane's concept and many features were great, but unfortunate things happened that resulted in it ending, which is why it still has such a strong following at least for nostalgia's sake. No need to throw the baby out as they say. However, simply copying things into a new game is not the answer either. Making something new and better than before should be the goal.

 

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4 hours ago, Drizzzt said:

Greatness takes time and great graphics is part of greatness.  of course we can strive for mediocrity and do just the minimum possible but than whats the point of that type of game.  for those who want strickly pvp ONLY.......  well they can always turn the game into a world of tanks style game where you que for matches.  give you all your gear and vessels and just let you duke it out but that would suck if this game turned into that.  PvE is important for a number of reasons and should not be ignored.  Like I've said before, PvP heavy game and a brutal PvP game but with a important PvE aspect.

You do understand that the manpower and money ACE has to develop this game is not infinite? The game is around 6 months of the point where nothing major will be added before launching. 6 months can fly by...

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25 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

You do understand that the manpower and money ACE has to develop this game is not infinite? The game is around 6 months of the point where nothing major will be added before launching. 6 months can fly by...

Launching? When? 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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13 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Launching? When? 

You missed it. Soft launched last year. Alpha was end of summer.

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2 minutes ago, APE said:

You missed it. Soft launched last year. Alpha was end of summer.

Well poorly made socks.  Is this the second CF expansion? 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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3 hours ago, mystafyi said:

You do understand that the manpower and money ACE has to develop this game is not infinite? The game is around 6 months of the point where nothing major will be added before launching. 6 months can fly by...

Ya no.  That argument doesn't work with me.  The choice is to either make a great game or a mediocre game.  If they hide behind the excuse of "manpower and money" to justify failure than the game will become mediocre and well.... After that, death of the game.  Or they can not even acknowledge the excuses of why it "can't happen", approach it with the mind set that it can and will happen and then find a way to make a great game....  In the end its really a question of mindset... A winning mindset or a losing mindset. :):)  

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5 hours ago, Drizzzt said:

Ya no.  That argument doesn't work with me.  The choice is to either make a great game or a mediocre game.  If they hide behind the excuse of "manpower and money" to justify failure than the game will become mediocre and well.... After that, death of the game.  Or they can not even acknowledge the excuses of why it "can't happen", approach it with the mind set that it can and will happen and then find a way to make a great game....  In the end its really a question of mindset... A winning mindset or a losing mindset. :):)  

Damn dude that is so inspiring how many years of experience do you have as a project lead in gamedev?

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5 minutes ago, Hungry said:

Damn dude that is so inspiring how many years of experience do you have as a project lead in gamedev?

I've lead many projects my friend over the years.  Many different types of projects and the success in my experience comes down to the mindset to succeed and win.  Its amazing what obstacles can be overcome and missions achieved and goals reached with the right mindset.  I would personally rate mindset as THE most important thing to have before anything else.  You could be given every opportunity and every leg up and still fail and I have seen it happen over and over because of the mindset.  :)  

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Drizzzt said:

I've lead many projects my friend over the years.  Many different types of projects and the success in my experience comes down to the mindset to succeed and win.  Its amazing what obstacles can be overcome and missions achieved and goals reached with the right mindset.  I would personally rate mindset as THE most important thing to have before anything else.  You could be given every opportunity and every leg up and still fail and I have seen it happen over and over because of the mindset.  :)  

That's awesome.

 

I worked 19 hour weekends for no additional pay and then was fired at the end of the project because my services were no longer needed because of that mindset of the project manager.  

Edited by Hungry

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, yianni said:

you need to stop comparing crowfall to shadowbane. two completely different games

Are they though?  Mostly the same races, same Lead Creative Dev, same lore, same classes, bane stones, trees of life, the dregs (soon) and where Uncle Bob has crushed the server under an iron (elvish themed winter) boot.  Sounds like Shadowbane to me. 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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