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Nextelum

Skill wipe for 5.9 plz

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TheMap said:

Competitive balance is exactly the testing environment we need to test properly. How can we test balance in a game lop sided due to passive skills that takes months to fully utilize? I could care less if they wipe or not, but you cannot get proper results in a test with variables all over the place. 

The live game will be lop sided due to passive skills that take months to fully utilize.

That is not a bug. That's the reason the skill trees exist. It is impossible to tell if new players are too disadvantaged by not having those trains if literally everyone has the trains at the moment of account creation.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Just now, TheMap said:

Competitive balance is exactly the testing environment we need to test properly. How can we test balance in a game lop sided due to passive skills that takes months to fully utilize? I could care less if they wipe or not, but you cannot get proper results in a test with variables all over the place. 

This same condition will exist in live. Players will start at the beginning and skill up. Other players will start later and be behind. That's the competitive balance that needs to be tested. Is it too much? Can new players still compete? If you wipe, all you are doing is removing that variable from the equation. 

I don't know how long you've been around. With 39 posts, probably not that long, so you probably haven't seen more than 1 wipe, if that. Wipes suck. If they want to set the skill gain to 100 per 10 seconds, fine, but I've been through a lot of wipes already and will go through several more. We don't need wipes for balance reasons. If the disparity creates an insurmountable imbalance (which is what we are testing), then they need to adjust the costs for skills so that earlier skills are faster and later are slower. We won't learn that by constantly wiping or by giving everyone max skill trees.

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1 minute ago, PopeUrban said:

The live game will be lop sided due to passive skills that take months to fully utilize.

That is not a bug. That's the reason the skill trees exist.

That is live, this is testing a pre-alpha. The concept of test balancing in a pvp focused MMO is a very important part. That is not possible with the current testing environment.

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Just now, TheMap said:

That is live, this is testing a pre-alpha. The concept of test balancing in a pvp focused MMO is a very important part. That is not possible with the current testing environment.

Explain to me how you're going to test the balance of skill trees if everyone has 4 years of skill training unlocked at account creation.


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2 minutes ago, Arkade said:

This same condition will exist in live. Players will start at the beginning and skill up. Other players will start later and be behind. That's the competitive balance that needs to be tested. Is it too much? Can new players still compete? If you wipe, all you are doing is removing that variable from the equation. 

I don't know how long you've been around. With 39 posts, probably not that long, so you probably haven't seen more than 1 wipe, if that. Wipes suck. If they want to set the skill gain to 100 per 10 seconds, fine, but I've been through a lot of wipes already and will go through several more. We don't need wipes for balance reasons. If the disparity creates an insurmountable imbalance (which is what we are testing), then they need to adjust the costs for skills so that earlier skills are faster and later are slower. We won't learn that by constantly wiping or by giving everyone max skill trees.

I've lurked on these forums for quite some time. And been testing just as long. Its not about competing at all, that is a very shallow way to view our testing environment. I'm looking at game balance, not numbers, not strength, not time played, actual balance.

If you read my post above you will see that I do not endorse a wipe. I suggested something else. IF that isn't possible then we need another Hunger Dome or siege test.

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2 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Explain to me how you're going to test the balance of skill trees if everyone has 4 years of skill training unlocked at account creation.

This is a test correct? Have you ever testing something that needed to remove variables in it? In order to be accurate you need to remove the variables. The same could be said about armor strength vs. slashing or crushing ect. Impossible to test if X is stronger than Y vs slashing if X and Y are not equal. Balance cannot be tested without equality across the board. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, TheMap said:

This is a test correct? Have you ever testing something that needed to remove variables in it? In order to be accurate you need to remove the variables. The same could be said about armor strength vs. slashing or crushing ect. Impossible to test if X is stronger than Y vs slashing if X and Y are not equal. Balance cannot be tested without equality across the board. 

What do you think we are testing right now? Do you think we are tweaking combat powers? The current focus of testing is economic and scoring metasystems.

By your own logic we can't test weapons unless they are all identical because there are too many variables. We are testing with variables in place because those variables will be in place and are relevant to the thing we're actually testing.

We have already done all of the testing without said variables like 2 years ago. Back in hunger dome, siege perilous, etc.

That's WHY we're now at a point where all of thes test recipies are being removed and the real economy is being slowly put in to place and balanced against the NPE and skill trees. Because THOSE are the variables we are testing.

They've stated multiple times that skills and detailed pvp balance will not see a detailed pass until all of these other systems are in and working.

Edited by PopeUrban

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3 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

They've stated multiple times that skills and detailed pvp balance will not see a detailed pass until all of these other systems are in and working.

If that is the case then I am fine with the current system. But , for the life of me I cannot find anything detailing this information. Please provide a link. I watch the pod cast, check the news every day or so. And also if you would have just said that from the beginning a lot of time would have been saved.

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Watch the last few months worth of QA streams, wherin Blair and Todd state repeatedly there are balance passes they want to do after all this stuff is in in response to questions about race balance, class balance, power balance, etc.


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On 5/3/2019 at 4:20 PM, Nextelum said:

wipe it all let us start fresh so we can enjoy all the new stuff from the ground up ….thanx .

No.

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1 minute ago, PopeUrban said:

Watch the last few months worth of QA streams, wherin Blair and Todd state repeatedly there are balance passes they want to do after all this stuff is in in response to questions about race balance, class balance, power balance, etc.

That is a bit excessive, I shouldn't have to watch a few months worth of QA pod casts in order to find out what is being tested on now and what will be coming. We sure could use someone who handles this type of thing around the community. Seems like direction is a little off, I sit and look at the discord of players sitting with there thumbs up there asses doing random poorly made socks wondering what is going on. News, updates, some sort of guidance other than this subtle hints of what is coming poorly made socks. Roadmap please.

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full wipe will be in alpha 6.0. before alpha I not sure there will be any more new player waves anyway.

skill wipes is not so effective without characters and banks wipe coz testers already get geared crafters and geared combat vessels and some minimum inventory stuff. no effect at all until they lose everything and unable to craft quality gear anymore.

so why topic starter want to kill current population until 6.0 I really do not understand except egoism notes


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4 minutes ago, TheMap said:

That is a bit excessive, I shouldn't have to watch a few months worth of QA pod casts in order to find out what is being tested on now and what will be coming. We sure could use someone who handles this type of thing around the community. Seems like direction is a little off, I sit and look at the discord of players sitting with there thumbs up there asses doing random poorly made socks wondering what is going on. News, updates, some sort of guidance other than this subtle hints of what is coming poorly made socks. Roadmap please. 

They post news about new feature implementations at least once a week, news about the path forward less frequently. They do streams to showcase new features and a QA stream once a month specifically to answer questions from the community.

I mean the information is there, but what would be a better system? Some kind of text block when you log in to the client?

Do you want a 'do this" list? Would a "do this" list skew the testing data by creating a false set of motivations that doesn't accurately mirror the live play impulses of players that they're trying to adjust these systems around?

There's honestly no way to do this that makes everyone happy.


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6 minutes ago, TheMap said:

That is a bit excessive, I shouldn't have to watch a few months worth of QA pod casts in order to find out what is being tested on now and what will be coming. We sure could use someone who handles this type of thing around the community. Seems like direction is a little off, I sit and look at the discord of players sitting with there thumbs up there asses doing random poorly made socks wondering what is going on. News, updates, some sort of guidance other than this subtle hints of what is coming poorly made socks. Roadmap please.

If you don't want to put the effort in to understand the game, where it is currently, and where it is headed that is your own fault. Many people have been here since the beginning and those of us that couldn't be have kept up with the game since the beginning. Just because you are late to the party doesn't mean you get complain that nobody waited to have fun until you showed up. 

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14 minutes ago, Thromdeir said:

If you don't want to put the effort in to understand the game, where it is currently, and where it is headed that is your own fault. Many people have been here since the beginning and those of us that couldn't be have kept up with the game since the beginning. Just because you are late to the party doesn't mean you get complain that nobody waited to have fun until you showed up. 

What part was hard for you to understand @TheMap? I'll try again.

Just because you have no idea what's going on and show no desire to figure it out doesn't mean we need to hold your hand and explain it to you. If this concept is hard for you I can't wait to see what you think of the game when it releases. 

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8 minutes ago, Thromdeir said:

What part was hard for you to understand @TheMap? I'll try again.

Just because you have no idea what's going on and show no desire to figure it out doesn't mean we need to hold your hand and explain it to you. If this concept is hard for you I can't wait to see what you think of the game when it releases. 

You seem to be very abrasive on these forums towards general players who are looking for information. Maybe you are part of the issue? Could it be that you being obtuse towards genuine curiosity, may be putting a damper on questions that people want to ask? Its understandable how someone that has been around as long as you have generated 9 reputation. 

If you need a friend, ill hold your hand.

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WOOOOOOOOOOW!...you all are way to custerding serious...………...was just trying to put in my 2 cents worth, imo it would be fun I think, im not new, you guys are accusing and attacking me for asking for a wipe and the slander? Custerd you all!!!!…...go cry in a corner and tremble in fear they may or may not wipe. I SUGGESTED it cause again I think it would be fun. but it seems to many of ya all wanna care bear....some of you have no custerding idea whats coming down the pipeline....so enjoy the carebear moments cause reality is gonna slap you in the face real soon....was just a suggestion and you all went CAPTAIN CAVEMAN...so be it

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7 minutes ago, TheMap said:

You seem to be very abrasive on these forums towards general players who are looking for information. Maybe you are part of the issue? Could it be that you being obtuse towards genuine curiosity, may be putting a damper on questions that people want to ask? Its understandable how someone that has been around as long as you have generated 9 reputation. 

If you need a friend, ill hold your hand.

On the contrary. I am willing to help anyone who wants to learn. You have demonstrated that you are not. As for my reputation I have only recent began posting on the forums and have been chasing after @mandalore's crown. If you had bothered to do any research ( a common problem with you it seems) you'd know that. @PopeUrban has gone out of his way detailing why there will not be a reset for sometime and suggested multiple ways you can get caught up on the games mechanics. You response was basically "TL;DR someone give me cliff notes". People here will point you in the right direction but no one is going hold your hand and take you there. If this concept is uncomfortable to you than you may have a problem in the future. This isn't WoW or GW2. There will be no quest tracker or log book to remind you want to do or spell out where to go.

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5 minutes ago, Thromdeir said:

On the contrary. I am willing to help anyone who wants to learn. You have demonstrated that you are not. As for my reputation I have only recent began posting on the forums and have been chasing after @mandalore's crown. If you had bothered to do any research ( a common problem with you it seems) you'd know that. @PopeUrban has gone out of his way detailing why there will not be a reset for sometime and suggested multiple ways you can get caught up on the games mechanics. You response was basically "TL;DR someone give me cliff notes". People here will point you in the right direction but no one is going hold your hand and take you there. If this concept is uncomfortable to you than you may have a problem in the future. This isn't WoW or GW2. There will be no quest tracker or log book to remind you want to do or spell out where to go.

If you had bothered to read my posts you would know I wasn't asking for a reset. .... please be sure you know what you are speaking on before you jump in. 

With that lack of attention to detail I will just assume you are speaking your obtuse nonsense. If you need a hug im here for you.

 

The lack of direction is a concern of mine, and many others as well. Its apparent and undeniable. That is all I have on this topic. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, TheMap said:

If you had bothered to read my posts you would know I wasn't asking for a reset. .... please be sure you know what you are speaking on before you jump in. 

With that lack of attention to detail I will just assume you are speaking your obtuse nonsense. If you need a hug im here for you.

 

The lack of direction is a concern of mine, and many others as well. Its apparent and undeniable. That is all I have on this topic. 

Wow. My retort about getting caught up with game mechanics went right over your head. You wanted to know what direction the game is head and why they are working on what they are working. @PopeUrban response to you that you TL;DR'd was exactly what you were looking for. You responded to only two tiny sections of my response and ignored the rest. Who's being obtuse now?

Edited by Thromdeir

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