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mist

Player Suggestions? Ok here it is.

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Suggestions --------- I played just over a year ago for about a month and then stopped, I am getting too old to spend a lot of time play testing a game.

Ok here is my suggestion. 

JTodd, I have been a fan of the games you've been apart of in the past. I was addicted to Shadowbane and I liked some parts of Faxion. I signed up to Crowfall because of your past games and the original vision YOU had for Crowfall.

STOP LETTING THOMAS BLAIR MAKE DECISIONS....he is turning your game idea into a grind fest...a chore. The crafting system is WAY TOO interdependent. The passive skill training takes WAY TOO long. Gear breaks WAY TOO often and soon. Disciplines seem WAY TOO hard to come by. The fact that I need 3 guild members to do anything really makes an independent person feel like a leach /a dependent child / a hanger-on; it's kinda degrading.

If I get a week where I have the luxury of being able to play a game....it doesn't matter how much I grind, I still will have a lowbe. Much of character development is locked behind a time gate (I felt that in Faxion as well, though not nearly to the degree I feel it in Crowfall).   

I was exited for a Throne warfare game like Shadowbane that had a fast paced, combat system like Faxion. But what this game in it's current iteration has me wondering if I will keep playing.

Even with a guild, this game (the past 3 weeks I have been back playing) is way to much grind for me. Just as I farm enough blue mats for weapons and armour, my white gear breaks (again) leaving me to finish trying to level a blue vessel with the had earned blue gear I JUST GOT. After about 10, R10 cats, the durability on my brand new gear is already close to 1/3 lower and I haven't died in that gear yet. So as other threads have said...it a grind for the sake of grinding; NOT for GvG throne warfare.

To my understanding, T Blair is the person behind crafting and passive skill training. He has some good ideas as far as powers go, and even though I feel the crafting system is way too interdependent, some crafting depth is required. T Blair has taken it over-board. Rein him in. By all means, keep listening to his suggestions, I believe he does have some good ones BUT

STOP LETTING THOMAS BLAIR MAKE DECISIONS

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Posted (edited)

The durability system, and the current leveling system for epic and legendary vessels is too much of a grind at the moment, I have to agree, and this is coming from a gamer who enjoys a bit of a grind.

  The durability system should be an easy fix with some turning of those knobs, my suggestion for the experience gain would be to simply give white and green items some sacrifice value even to high level high end vessels but just make it minimal.. like make gold 1/5 of a exp point for each coin, green items might be a third or a half.. that way you lower the grind and players will have something to do with those 20 stacks of white resources

Edited by seastodd

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Blair's stated that he tries to err on the side of too difficult than too easy when initializing a system.  That way when a balance adjustment has to be made, it's usually in the players favor than a nerf.

I was without a computer for a couple of months so I jumped from 5.7 to 5.9.  While there's still a long ways to go, I feel that Crowfall is easier to get started in now than it had been when campaigns were initialized.  So I think Thomas Blair's direction is working, it's just a slow process that will require a lot of iterations before the game gets to a satisfactory point.

There's still new systems being brought online that will have to be taken into consideration.  Once the vendor system is more fleshed out and version upgrades become consistent enough to make EK development a bigger part of the economy, I expect to see an impact on player interactions.  White materials might have little value in crafting equipment but you need a ton of them to build EK plots.  That could be a good way for lowbies to earn gold to buy the equipment or resources they need to be a warrior or tradesman.  I wouldn't take the current build to be representative of what the finished game will be like.

But it's important that the people at ACE hear these criticisms so that they have an idea of which way to, as seastodd put it, adjust the knobs.  Have you written over on the 5.9 feedback forum yet?  That would probably be a more direct way to get your concerns looked at by the developers.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Bashar said:

Blair's stated that he tries to err on the side of too difficult than too easy when initializing a system.  That way when a balance adjustment has to be made, it's usually in the players favor than a nerf.

I was without a computer for a couple of months so I jumped from 5.7 to 5.9.  While there's still a long ways to go, I feel that Crowfall is easier to get started in now than it had been when campaigns were initialized.  So I think Thomas Blair's direction is working, it's just a slow process that will require a lot of iterations before the game gets to a satisfactory point.

There's still new systems being brought online that will have to be taken into consideration.  Once the vendor system is more fleshed out and version upgrades become consistent enough to make EK development a bigger part of the economy, I expect to see an impact on player interactions.  White materials might have little value in crafting equipment but you need a ton of them to build EK plots.  That could be a good way for lowbies to earn gold to buy the equipment or resources they need to be a warrior or tradesman.  I wouldn't take the current build to be representative of what the finished game will be like.

But it's important that the people at ACE hear these criticisms so that they have an idea of which way to, as seastodd put it, adjust the knobs.  Have you written over on the 5.9 feedback forum yet?  That would probably be a more direct way to get your concerns looked at by the developers.

      Ok I play too much, but even with the wipe 4 weeks ago I have a capital parcel, a villa and a manor, and around 30 stacks of white ore sitting on a merchant.. we need something to do with this surplus, that is why I suggested like 1/5 of an experience point per white resource for high level high end vessels so a stack of 200 white ore would only be worth 40 or 50 xp, by no means a game changer, but it gives us some use for these extra whites, you could even make gold, grubs whaever worth the same 5th of a point, I either just flat out throw out, or wait till I get ganked to clear alot of the crap out of my inventories I have no use for

   Also most of this farming was off r7 nodes, so I was not farming just to gain whites... I have used most of the blues for armor and weapons over this period, so if I want to stay in blues, with the crazy durability loss I am just going to continue to pile up more and more white resources

Edited by seastodd

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I have similar feelings about the direction of the game as the OP, but I'm honestly not sure if this is just one man (TBlair) inside the team pushing the game into that direction, in fact I doubt it. 

In the Kickstarter and around the beginning everyone was super hyped about Raph Koster's involvement as a consultant, but honestly this extreme and exaggerated interdependency, complexity and bloat of the crafting system seems like it was encouraged by him and inspired by his design theories and essays. And that's in part why Crowfall has been feeling more and more like an academic experiment or a PhD thesis from the MMO College rather than a fun game to play. 

I saw the red flags all the way at the start when the game kept being compared to EVE all the time, a game better known for spread sheets and zergs, but I allowed myself to be led by Todd's awesome speeches on how he described the game he envisioned, along with buzz words like "skill based combat", "shallow power curve", "minimal grind" and all that stuff that to this day are still in the FAQs on the official website. Game is anything but that now. And I can't say that I'm surprised. 

CF's design sounds awesome on paper, but it just hasn't been translating into a fun game for me for the past several milestones. But hey, there's probably a market for it out there, EVE has been successful for a long time. I just feel like they either weren't completely honest in their original pitch to spark the flames of the hype train and get as many initial purchases as they could, OR the development and vision of the game took some sharp turns along the way to become something else.

Basically the game isn't trying to keep players logged into the CWs by providing a fun and addictive experience, but rather by submitting you through a long and arduous grind that requires a lot of time investment.

 


 

 

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23 hours ago, Bashar said:

Blair's stated that he tries to err on the side of too difficult than too easy when initializing a system.  That way when a balance adjustment has to be made, it's usually in the players favor than a nerf.

Todd has said the same. I know that the game is in a strange place with some systems in but un-tuned, while others are ondeck awaiting development. I also know that they've wanted gear to be easy come easy go.

The beneficial 'fix' has turned base mats into a grind. Both majors and minors are a grind. Loot only tools are a barrier to entry for craftsmen. Soul harvest tools are a barrier to harvesters. The new death & rebirth system is causing brutal gear decay. All of these are new and need itteration. The current inventory system is a placeholder for whatever they have planned. Crafting is a huge time sink, but we don't have manufacturing.

I hope that that's all it is and we just need to let them finish, because the last few revs have us charging past Korea mode into Ludicrous mode.

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35 minutes ago, VaMei said:

I hope that that's all it is and we just need to let them finish, because the last few revs have us charging past Korea mode into Ludicrous mode. 

I just want to clarify that I don't think it's just a matter of letting the devs do their thing.  Feedback and criticism are really important for them to get a handle on what's working and what isn't.  The reason I haven't written a feedback post myself yet is because I only got back in to the game a week ago and I'm still gearing and levelling up from the last wipe.  There's a lot of concerns that I would like to see addressed, many of which are in common with others on this thread.

I just don't think it's because of any single person, be it Thomas Blair, Raph Koster. or Todd Coleman.  I think @Rikutatis hit the nail on the head about good ideas on paper not translating to enjoyable gameplay.  The only way we're going to figure out which ideas work, though is to try them.  Most games don't actually become fun until six to nine months before release.  So we have to playing, keep suffering, and keep complaining until it gets done right.  The hard part is not getting discouraged because things can definitely get worse before they get better.

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Saved me the time and trouble to rant about one or two many ppl behind the scenes making changes that the players didnt want. Yes the game has become one hell of a grind fest now, something that the kickstarter promised it wouldn't be.

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6 hours ago, seastodd said:

      Ok I play too much, but even with the wipe 4 weeks ago I have a capital parcel, a villa and a manor, and around 30 stacks of white ore sitting on a merchant.. we need something to do with this surplus, that is why I suggested like 1/5 of an experience point per white resource for high level high end vessels so a stack of 200 white ore would only be worth 40 or 50 xp, by no means a game changer, but it gives us some use for these extra whites, you could even make gold, grubs whaever worth the same 5th of a point, I either just flat out throw out, or wait till I get ganked to clear alot of the crap out of my inventories I have no use for

   Also most of this farming was off r7 nodes, so I was not farming just to gain whites... I have used most of the blues for armor and weapons over this period, so if I want to stay in blues, with the crazy durability loss I am just going to continue to pile up more and more white resources

With the gear durability issues whites are worth more imo. No need to waste durability on a nice blue+ set when farming mobs. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, oneply said:

With the gear durability issues whites are worth more imo. No need to waste durability on a nice blue+ set when farming mobs. 

   I agree but I was also just trying to level purple vessels, I have to be able to kill a r5 at level 1 for any xp, with no skills, no hit points and white gear to top it off.. it just makes it worse and worse that route imo the blue gear at least let me kill a couple of mobs before standing there waiting for health or bandages after every mob

Edited by seastodd

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5 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

CF's design sounds awesome on paper, but it just hasn't been translating into a fun game for me for the past several milestones. But hey, there's probably a market for it out there, EVE has been successful for a long time. I just feel like they either weren't completely honest in their original pitch to spark the flames of the hype train and get as many initial purchases as they could, OR the development and vision of the game took some sharp turns along the way to become something else.

Basically the game isn't trying to keep players logged into the CWs by providing a fun and addictive experience, but rather by submitting you through a long and arduous grind that requires a lot of time investment.

Seems some are more then happy with grinding to grind. Will be interesting to see how they market this thing while staying honest.

 

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12 minutes ago, APE said:

Seems some are more then happy with grinding to grind. Will be interesting to see how they market this thing while staying honest.

 

Pretty easy actually. They wont.

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6 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

I just feel like they either weren't completely honest in their original pitch to spark the flames of the hype train and get as many initial purchases as they could, OR the development and vision of the game took some sharp turns along the way to become something else.

 

I think they realized a while back that their software could never really handle large battles and decided they needed to add more pve content, so they added grind. 

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7 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I think they realized a while back that their software could never really handle large battles and decided they needed to add more pve content, so they added grind. 

Seige windows make people stay on for seiges. Off hours the game would be dead without the endless grind so they added that. 

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2 minutes ago, Marth said:

Seige windows make people stay on for seiges. Off hours the game would be dead without the endless grind so they added that. 

A lack of meaningful PvP content outside of sieges. 

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7 minutes ago, Marth said:

I agree instead of addressing that they added grind

I wish they never would have started with faction ruleset. The whole ruleset seems to suppress pvp. in general. 

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Just now, mystafyi said:

I wish they never would have started with faction ruleset. The whole ruleset seems to suppress pvp. in general. 

yeah dregs would have been cooler. They wanted to appeal to normal people tho. Idk why people would leave a faction vs faction game for cf tho.

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3 hours ago, Marth said:

yeah dregs would have been cooler. They wanted to appeal to normal people tho. Idk why people would leave a faction vs faction game for cf tho.

If they started with Dregs, population would probably be half of what it is, if that. People whine about losing in pre-alpha as it is. Imagine if it was every guild/alliance for themselves without any safe spaces.

From recent comments it doesn't appear that ACE intends to appeal to "average" or "normal" players. It's the "hardcore" no lifers. Which seem to want Dregs so not sure what point Factions will have once Dregs are available. The target audience and the design goals seem a bit off.

As is, CF offers little to nothing in comparison to other games in regards to RvR/Factions. Especially true if Camelot ever launches and is half way decent. Those that think an arena/hunger dome option is crazy will likely see the end of Factions as well. Who wants variety...

Got the not-so-complex crafting system, Dregs, and matches that come to an end yet don't thwart Uncle Bob. Not sure those will be strong enough selling points.

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14 minutes ago, APE said:

If they started with Dregs, population would probably be half of what it is, if that. People whine about losing in pre-alpha as it is. Imagine if it was every guild/alliance for themselves without any safe spaces.

From recent comments it doesn't appear that ACE intends to appeal to "average" or "normal" players. It's the "hardcore" no lifers. Which seem to want Dregs so not sure what point Factions will have once Dregs are available. The target audience and the design goals seem a bit off.

As is, CF offers little to nothing in comparison to other games in regards to RvR/Factions. Especially true if Camelot ever launches and is half way decent. Those that think an arena/hunger dome option is crazy will likely see the end of Factions as well. Who wants variety...

Got the not-so-complex crafting system, Dregs, and matches that come to an end yet don't thwart Uncle Bob. Not sure those will be strong enough selling points.

Factions allow people to get started in the game before they join guilds. They also serve the purpose of giving guilds that are losing Dregs campaigns an alternative campaign type where they can lick their wounds and catch up. People can build power in Faction campaigns before tackling Dregs campaigns.

They serve a purpose, even if the "real game" is Dregs campaigns.


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