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mist

Player Suggestions? Ok here it is.

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16 hours ago, Jah said:

Factions allow people to get started in the game before they join guilds. They also serve the purpose of giving guilds that are losing Dregs campaigns an alternative campaign type where they can lick their wounds and catch up. People can build power in Faction campaigns before tackling Dregs campaigns.

They serve a purpose, even if the "real game" is Dregs campaigns.

Isnt that why they brought about gods reach? Faction play is a terrible idea and many naysayers will see this.... but too late.

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22 hours ago, Jah said:

Factions allow people to get started in the game before they join guilds. They also serve the purpose of giving guilds that are losing Dregs campaigns an alternative campaign type where they can lick their wounds and catch up. People can build power in Faction campaigns before tackling Dregs campaigns.

They serve a purpose, even if the "real game" is Dregs campaigns.

They do serve a purpose, but could be a fine alternative to the Dregs as likely intended. However, God's Reach sort of screws with this dynamic a bit if it remains the same.

Also with pride/bragging being something that will likely be a driving force, losing to the point that people have to go to the minor leagues will likely be a bit much for some.

Instead of grinding for higher end resources/rewards, now you can grind more for less of each, YAY!

With ranked games this is less of an issue as there is an ever present scoring system that makes the grind and performance easily seen. With campaigns potentially going on for weeks/months, might not be as obvious. Could be too much of an never ending uphill boulder push with the occasional boulder getting knocked back to the start.

My concern is that the basic concept is fine, but there isn't enough content in of itself or for us to make for ourselves where the grind won't be the front and center focus. 

As I mentioned, some seem to love this but I'm doubtful that enough are willing to slog through it long term, not to mention pay for VIP and other things that ACE seems to believe will be a decent chunk of income. There are F2P/B2P games that offer quite a bit more and require less effort to jump in/out.

Guess we'll see in a year or two or three...

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11 hours ago, APE said:

They do serve a purpose, but could be a fine alternative to the Dregs as likely intended. However, God's Reach sort of screws with this dynamic a bit if it remains the same.

Also with pride/bragging being something that will likely be a driving force, losing to the point that people have to go to the minor leagues will likely be a bit much for some.

Instead of grinding for higher end resources/rewards, now you can grind more for less of each, YAY!

With ranked games this is less of an issue as there is an ever present scoring system that makes the grind and performance easily seen. With campaigns potentially going on for weeks/months, might not be as obvious. Could be too much of an never ending uphill boulder push with the occasional boulder getting knocked back to the start.

My concern is that the basic concept is fine, but there isn't enough content in of itself or for us to make for ourselves where the grind won't be the front and center focus. 

As I mentioned, some seem to love this but I'm doubtful that enough are willing to slog through it long term, not to mention pay for VIP and other things that ACE seems to believe will be a decent chunk of income. There are F2P/B2P games that offer quite a bit more and require less effort to jump in/out.

Guess we'll see in a year or two or three...

Does vip even do anything?

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On 5/20/2019 at 8:09 PM, mystafyi said:

I think they realized a while back that their software could never really handle large battles and decided they needed to add more pve content, so they added grind. 

I dont think I have ever seen any software that has handled large battles well. World of Warcraft quickly went pve when they saw the performance of 50v50 battles outside stormwind,  Warhammer Online... fail, and than the list of games that have come out recently that do anything they can to either flat out avoid them or instance them. Have you ever played Conan Exiles, they went the route of allowing only 40 people per server to try and deal with this same issue and well I think they were a fail also. Love this game love their concepts, can only shove so much data through a cable at once though, internet speeds are real, I spend more on my isp than food at the moment and well I still have times where stuff is not running right.

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7 hours ago, seastodd said:

 I dont think I have ever seen any software that has handled large battles well. 

There isn't any with active combat and not plagued with hacks. Camelot unchained's engine seems to handle quite a lot though, so there is some hope for the future. Black desert ran quite nicely before launch and shortly after, but this was only due to having everything client side so hacks were rampant. I am still waiting for all these supposed performance improvements ACE said would be in 5.9

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9 hours ago, Marth said:

Does vip even do anything?

Not currently. Gave an "advantage" with passive training that they removed due to training changes and likely not wanting to be seen as P2W. Beyond that not sure what they have planned that won't provide an advantage over those not paying.

8 hours ago, seastodd said:

I dont think I have ever seen any software that has handled large battles well. World of Warcraft quickly went pve when they saw the performance of 50v50 battles outside stormwind,  Warhammer Online... fail, and than the list of games that have come out recently that do anything they can to either flat out avoid them or instance them. Have you ever played Conan Exiles, they went the route of allowing only 40 people per server to try and deal with this same issue and well I think they were a fail also. Love this game love their concepts, can only shove so much data through a cable at once though, internet speeds are real, I spend more on my isp than food at the moment and well I still have times where stuff is not running right.

Well as in perfect is likely not going to happen anytime soon. Several games have handled it well enough though. DAoC, GW2, ESO, BDO all did it decently well all things considered for the time/tech being used. Camelot Unchained hopefully pulls it off a bit better then others as they've spent so much time on the engine specifically for this. As is though, Crowfall doesn't seem to be meant for anything beyond 50v50 with how combat and siege function. Would of liked to see larger experiences, but seems they want a less then large throne war.

31 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I am still waiting for all these supposed performance improvements ACE said would be in 5.9

It is better but not a huge difference IMO. Still have the fall back of "pre-alpha" so they have time to continue improving. 

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4 hours ago, APE said:

Not currently. Gave an "advantage" with passive training that they removed due to training changes and likely not wanting to be seen as P2W. Beyond that not sure what they have planned that won't provide an advantage over those not paying.

 

So people pay 15$ a month out of the goodness of their heart.

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1 minute ago, Marth said:

So people pay 15$ a month out of the goodness of their heart.

Would seem so unless they come up with something of value. Only thing of value that I know of that people will actually pay for is advantage. Cosmetics and store discounts aren't going to cut it. Can't remember the exact amount but I believe they mentioned maybe 25% or more of revenue would come from VIP post-launch. Will be interesting to see what they come up with.

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1 minute ago, APE said:

Would seem so unless they come up with something of value. Only thing of value that I know of that people will actually pay for is advantage. Cosmetics and store discounts aren't going to cut it. Can't remember the exact amount but I believe they mentioned maybe 25% or more of revenue would come from VIP post-launch. Will be interesting to see what they come up with.

Vip was "pay 2 win" so it got removed. Now its who owns more alts. A much more annoying way to "p2w". (didnt think old vip was p2w). AltAge (archeage) was bad enough lets not do that again :/.

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Just now, Marth said:

Vip was "pay 2 win" so it got removed. Now its who owns more alts. A much more annoying way to "p2w". (didnt think old vip was p2w). AltAge (archeage) was bad enough lets not do that again :/.

Store is also a form of RMT if they allow us to trade VIP and other store items for in-game goods. Is what it is, money is going to play into this one way or another. Was hoping the game would be worth dealing with such things when I first backed during KS, now not so much. No way I'm going to play a mediocre game that also has some form of P2W. Not to mention grind to win. Still have a bit of hope left though. Anything can happen, but I prefer Camelot and Ashes more firm and "honest" view on P2W then ACE's "we aren't P2W cause we're like EVE."

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2 minutes ago, APE said:

Store is also a form of RMT if they allow us to trade VIP and other store items for in-game goods. Is what it is, money is going to play into this one way or another. Was hoping the game would be worth dealing with such things when I first backed during KS, now not so much. No way I'm going to play a mediocre game that also has some form of P2W. Not to mention grind to win. Still have a bit of hope left though. Anything can happen, but I prefer Camelot and Ashes more firm and "honest" view on P2W then ACE's "we aren't P2W cause we're like EVE."

I agree the company needs to make money somehow. Alt spam and grinding seem more like a job then a game. I was just hoping for cosmetics and housing to spend money on.  

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Posted (edited)

 

Quote

 

The passive skill training takes WAY TOO long. Gear breaks WAY TOO often and soon. Disciplines seem WAY TOO hard to come by. The fact that I need 3 guild members to do anything really makes an independent person feel like a leach /a dependent child / a hanger-on; it's kinda degrading.

If I get a week where I have the luxury of being able to play a game....it doesn't matter how much I grind, I still will have a lowbe. Much of character development is locked behind a time gate (I felt that in Faxion as well, though not nearly to the degree I feel it in Crowfall).  

 

I agree on this one. My case is that i don't have regulary free time. Several months ago, i got several days to discover Crowfall. Sadly i can't buff my passive training. It would be nice if the passive skill was mixed with real gaming experience. I don't understand why my skinning skill would be worse than an old player. What about an old player never skinned and i would be worse even if i skinned 2500 pigs ? This breaks a natural reward/work balance. And i'm sure that this complaint will come back again and again.

Quote

Gear breaks WAY TOO often and soon. Disciplines seem WAY TOO hard to come by. The fact that I need 3 guild members to do anything really makes an independent person feel like a leach /a dependent child / a hanger-on; it's kinda degrading.

Gears fast live rotation is a good thing for eco and crafting. This problem should be fixed when the wipes will stop. With a rich and well-established economy, gears cost will decrease because of the players economy. Anyway, it's just a balance matter and can be fixed easily.

Quote

 I was exited for a Throne warfare game like Shadowbane that had a fast paced, combat system like Faxion.

Same feelings but i understand the PvE choices. Honestly, do you know a pure PVP MMORPG that had a commercial success? If you take a look at Wow, most players are on PvE servers. Simply you can only be involved in a competitive PvP game if you are a no-life. That's why crafting is important. This gives player side goals to reach.

Edited by Franck83

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21 hours ago, APE said:

It is better but not a huge difference IMO. Still have the fall back of "pre-alpha" so they have time to continue improving. 

By their own admission ACE put most folks to work on combating lag/latency issues with this game months ago. They also stated we would see major improvements that couldn't be added in 5.8 and we had to wait for 5.9 If all hands on deck couldn't fix the issues, I fear they cannot be fixed with current dev team. From my experience with beta/alpha stages of games, they run better prior to release then after launch. Sure they have optimization issues, but normally those games are crushing my system due to bad coding. crowfall uses very little of my cpu/gpu and low quality graphics already. Once they start adding more server side checks to combat hacking things will get much worse... or hacking will be rampant.

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1 hour ago, mystafyi said:

By their own admission ACE put most folks to work on combating lag/latency issues with this game months ago. They also stated we would see major improvements that couldn't be added in 5.8 and we had to wait for 5.9 If all hands on deck couldn't fix the issues, I fear they cannot be fixed with current dev team. From my experience with beta/alpha stages of games, they run better prior to release then after launch. Sure they have optimization issues, but normally those games are crushing my system due to bad coding. crowfall uses very little of my cpu/gpu and low quality graphics already. Once they start adding more server side checks to combat hacking things will get much worse... or hacking will be rampant.

Same situation with combat and how it was the main focus for what seemed like years. Isn't garbage, but not anything special either considering the game type and focus put into it. Is what it is. Never had any faith in Unity to begin with and they've never seemed too concerned with large scale combat as ~100 is apparently more then enough for them and some fans. Ashes seems likely to perform better and most likely Camelot as they've started from the ground up. Doesn't matter to me as long as one of them is worth playing more then a month.

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7 minutes ago, APE said:

Ashes seems likely to perform better and most likely Camelot as they've started from the ground up. Doesn't matter to me as long as one of them is worth playing more then a month.

While I think CU has worse graphics then CF, they at least can handle having more then 50 players in combat without having a slideshow. I for one simply cannot be fekked to play a PvP game with under 30FPS when my rig is not taxed. A PvE game with nice graphics and content would help me forgive some performance issues, but I didn't come to crowfall to PvE, since there are much better options for that style of game.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, mystafyi said:

While I think CU has worse graphics then CF, they at least can handle having more then 50 players in combat without having a slideshow. I for one simply cannot be fekked to play a PvP game with under 30FPS when my rig is not taxed. A PvE game with nice graphics and content would help me forgive some performance issues, but I didn't come to crowfall to PvE, since there are much better options for that style of game.

Started playing these types of games with MUDs so graphics aren't my highest priority. Obviously subjective, but CU fine to me and it will have fancier visual tech that will allow a wider range of graphics for those with the machine power. World and player models are higher detail compared Crowfall, but if you mean you don't like the art design, then ya it is different from the more cartoonish CF design which I like as well.

I'd rather play something that look like this if the combat and experience were fun. Although they've already shown better models. Rather funny to see what people can do with little to no funding compared to CF/CU which have pulled in millions. Raises some questions.

https://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/y1wL3xN.png

 

 

Edited by APE

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16 hours ago, mystafyi said:

While I think CU has worse graphics then CF, they at least can handle having more then 50 players in combat without having a slideshow. I for one simply cannot be fekked to play a PvP game with under 30FPS when my rig is not taxed. A PvE game with nice graphics and content would help me forgive some performance issues, but I didn't come to crowfall to PvE, since there are much better options for that style of game.

CU isn’t focused on graphics at the moment. Doing it the old school way. Build the systems that matter first, then add in the pretty stuff. I will take a smooth running game with subpar graphics over a pretty one with junk performance. 

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17 hours ago, APE said:

Same situation with combat and how it was the main focus for what seemed like years. Isn't garbage, but not anything special either considering the game type and focus put into it. Is what it is. Never had any faith in Unity to begin with and they've never seemed too concerned with large scale combat as ~100 is apparently more then enough for them and some fans. Ashes seems likely to perform better and most likely Camelot as they've started from the ground up. Doesn't matter to me as long as one of them is worth playing more then a month.

ill be sad if ashes do well 😕

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3 hours ago, APE said:

Rather funny to see what people can do with little to no funding compared to CF/CU which have pulled in millions. Raises some questions.

You just need some talent and focus to make a decent PvP game, PvE is much harder and costly. There are quite a lot of games that simply use 3rd party plugins and software for everything and patch it together. CU needed to spend manpower on designing their own backend, so their costs would be much higher, but they have the benefit of actually being able to have larger amounts of players together. 

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6 hours ago, Marth said:

ill be sad if ashes do well 😕

Why? More games the better IMO. 

3 hours ago, mystafyi said:

You just need some talent and focus to make a decent PvP game

True, but apparently what some consider a "PVP game" differs. Crowfall currently doesn't fit that tag for me.

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