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Rikutatis

DREGS: What you'd like to see

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14 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Exactly!

How is it any less meaningful if it takes less materials to craft but also has less durability? 

If anything increased gear churn increases need for crafters. I do think the many step crafting process for most things could use some streamlining. We also need proper bank space. 

I get the Shadowbane crowd doesn’t like equipped item loot because Shadowbane didn’t have it but many FFA pvp conquest games have equipped item loot and it works great (Darkfall, Mortal Online, Albion Online, Eve Online, etc.). 

Different pvp loot rules is part of the risk vs reward equation in the harsher campaign bands per original Kickstarter design. I hope they keep to it. 

Crowfall_WorldRules_1.jpg

You damn well know that JTodd has already stated those bands of worlds like that aren’t happening.  It’s rare that you argue in bad faith on purpose but you’re trying to use a point that’s not longer valid to justify dark fall loot rules when you damn well know it’s not going to happen.  Crafting is going to be a deeply complex and full time role and you don’t like it (I don’t like crafting or harvesting either) but it’s not going away so somebody who plays 10 hours a week can be on that same foot as somebody who plays 50.  Stop advocating for dark fall full loot solo farm 2 hour end game gear; it’s not sb or df.  

 

None of those games have crafting and harvesting systems as complex as CF 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Just now, mandalore said:

You damn well know that JTodd has already stated those bands of worlds like that aren’t happening.  

If I might ask, do you remember approximately  when that was stated? 

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3 minutes ago, mandalore said:

You damn well know that JTodd has already stated those bands of worlds like that aren’t happening.  It’s rare that you argue in bad faith on purpose but you’re trying to use a point that’s not longer valid to justify dark fall loot rules when you damn well know it’s not going to happen.  Crafting is going to be a deeply complex and full time role and you don’t like it (I don’t like crafting or harvesting either) but it’s not going away so somebody who plays 10 hours a week can be on that same foot as somebody who plays 50.  Stop advocating for dark fall full loot solo farm 2 hour end game gear; it’s not sb or df.  

 

None of those games have crafting and harvesting systems as complex as CF 

On the contrary, I haven’t heard Todd say equipped item loot wont happen in CF. 

There’s a lot that would need to change to make it plausible. Need a lot more “easy come, easy go”. 


Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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On 5/24/2019 at 2:24 AM, Andius said:

To be clear I don't belong to Vanguard, and I'm not European. I'm American. The reason I'm featured in their video is because I fought alongside 3 of them + another player who was TRA at the time in a fight where we stopped 9 balance 5v9 right here on NA. They were winning 4v9 when I arrived on scene but my CCs did hasten the inevitable.
 

 

On 5/24/2019 at 2:24 AM, Andius said:

To be clear I don't belong to Vanguard, and I'm not European. I'm American. The reason I'm featured in their video is because I fought alongside 3 of them + another player who was TRA at the time in a fight where we stopped 9 balance 5v9 right here on NA. They were winning 4v9 when I arrived on scene but my CCs did hasten the inevitable.
 

 

 

You brought them up. Find new role models.

My point is Yumix and his Merry pack of cat courtesans cannot stop a zerg, hell they can't stop us and we don't number into the hundreds. Although we screwed up and lost one keep last night, I don't remember Yummy Yummy being there but he might have been, now it's 5-1 on NA. Go look,

If  you think zergs can't deploy small squad tactics as well as mobilize massive strikes you're being naive, this is why Armageddon is trying to disabuse you of full loot mechanics with crowfalls Byzantine crafting system.  

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On 5/24/2019 at 2:38 AM, PopeUrban said:

We've played NA balance since before you lot left order at the start of the trials and took the landscaping off our hands. We'll probably still be playing NA balance when you leave as well.

You really shouldn't drink on the job. Its very unprofessional.

You've got me there, drinking to excess is a sin, I have fallen from the True Word because alcoholism is the only way I can reconcile perma-death with crowfall, can I get an indulgence? I will say three hail Urban's and trim the hedges tonight when we defend our five keeps, whose head do you want trimmed? 

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On 5/24/2019 at 2:28 AM, Yumx said:

Hmmm, what is this conversation?

This seems like an unnecessary flex.. 

1: Hi, my guild is on Balance on EU, we're 5 people and just want to practice, not being involved in these squabbles.

2: Why would we make ropes?

3: Last time you guys visited EU was back in Trial of Zaleena, and that fight didn't go so well for you guys:

4: Yes you could probably overrun the server, could be fun to see.

Now please leave us out of this flexing competition.

No you're involved now, you responded.

One of your fan boys thinks a Five Man Clan can stop a zerg from winning a campaign if only there were full loot rule-sets, I disagree. Andius is prolly a nice guy but I think he is spreading the wrong ideas because catch phrases like full loot, perma-death, sandbox, and friendly fire, sound cool.

My apologies for calling you guys goat ropers it was offensive and hateful, I will use the term Cat Courtesans in the future, it sounds better.

You are wrong, we first came to the E.U. server in the Trial of Malekai which is what prompted the famous 'Uncle Bob via Mega Alliance?' Dev post. That post was a result of 1 alliance controlling 2 servers. We came there for 3 reasons: 1)Our enemies thought a tactical retreat to the E.U. server was a smart idea, so we took the fight to E.U. 2)Certain E.U. guilds tried to affect the outcome of the Trial of Malekia as mercs for our opponents so we punished them. 3)Because we could 'flex' to E.U. and make it stick.

Nice video and a righteous win, you beat some of our guys in the Trial Zaleena congrats, by that time we had already broken our enemies on N.A., gave payback to the Euros for sticking their nose where it didn't belong, and proven Uncle Bob is a piker compared to our Flex during the trial of Malekai. You don't look like Balance in that video, you looked like Order, which is what you look like when you are running around on NA 

Now getting back on topic of rule-sets, How about 1 server for the next few trials. Do them on the weekend, rotate the host server every weekend for a month. EU server one week NA server the next.

Or how about artcraft stitch our Eternal Kingdom, to your Eternal Kingdom, for a day. So your friends can battle my friends. And the damage and loss of property goes home with ya when the battle is over. Artcraft said they could do it, but didn't know if they should do it.

I think clans should be able to challenge other clans. 

 

 

 

 

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Five man clans, even one with solid tactics and coordination, won't be single-handedly stopping zergs in the dregs (Unless there are permadeath campaigns, I could actually see very small and skilled groups winning permadeath campaigns). What they do, is make a rather major impact.

The greatest strength of a zerg is that when it calls it's entire player base together, they can overwhelm their opponents with sheer numbers. However in games with limited resources within a small area zergs need to spread out, find multiple places to gather. And that's their greatest weakness. It's not hard to find members of a zerg when they are on in force and not all stacked to push objectives together.

Small groups can engage small groups of the zerg, and at least the small groups I've been part of usually win those styles of engagement. Kill, loot, bank, kill, loot, bank. Take favorable engagements, avoid unfavorable ones. And by the time the zerg brings 20+ people down on your five, you've killed and banked so much of their crap you're still profiting. 

There is a reason I make comments like this. I've played full loot games time and time again. I've seen these tactics work. When someone points at their ability to take forts as evidence they will keep their opponents constantly naked, it suggests to me you're either a full loot virgin, or you didn't learn very much from playing such games. The harsher the penalties for death, the easier it is for small teams of skilled players to whittle a zerg down over time. But if you think it will help you win then feel free to support it.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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There you go virtue signalling again "I've played full loot games time and time again"

Yeah me too, and most of them are ghost towns right now.

You are just wrong... the weakness of zergs is internal politics, and boredom.

Artcraft has promoted this game as a throne war simulator, so I'm assuming there will be politics, however I don't think campaigns will last long enough for boredom to set in. 

You are misguided if you think people in zergs are stupid untalented noobs. There are zergs clans here with founder packages and it ain't their first rodeo. They can have dozens of top players that can beat you 1v1 and take your stuff. They can field dozens of small squads, that can take you on squad vs. squad, and take your stuff. They can use their Cannon fodder to lock down entire islands at the Runegates and keep you from their spawns and you ain't getting jack from their farmers, and at the same time field capable roamers to harass your spawns. Yeah you can use fade away tactic and make them play a game of whack-a-mole, and that might be fun for you for a time, but they can do that too, and they can set up counters and traps to your small squad raids, because they have the manpower. Oh have you ever seen two zergs ally for a specific one time goal? Yeah they can do that too.

Look a full loot rule-set would be perfect for a Speed Campaign, 1 day, unlimited import, last 3 hours opens the export bank, the guild with the most exported skulls wins. Winners get X2 training speed for 24 hours. eligibility 2 speed campaigns per week. Go back to your home campaign. 

Yep! you are right I'm a loot virgin, I've never given up anything of value when looted cause I'm not dumb enough to carry anything in my bags. Well maybe some stinky cheese. I'm like a bad slot machine, I never pay out. Killing me for loot is just wasting the durability on your own armor.

So that brings us full circle. And what kind of rule-set would I like to see to help out smaller guilds instead of full loot. Well how about campaigns that have  baked in mercenary mechanics in the rules. Such as the ability to negotiate real contracts. Soft caps on the campaign population to allow the importation of a mercenary force from another campaign. 

I don't know, I don't design games I just play them, but full loot sucks the life out of games where crafting is complicated and governed by RNG. But I'm all for you getting what you want because we have won every Trial so far, and full loot would be ice cream on my pie.  

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13 minutes ago, corvax said:

Yeah me too, and most of them are ghost towns right now.

Every single PvP centric MMO with or without full loot is a ghost town except one. EVE.

EVE has full loss of ship, gear, and implants (if you get podded) on death. The killer only gets partial loot but the losses are full so close enough.

The problem with Darkfall, Mortal etc. wasn't full loot.  It's that they were fundamentally bad games for a myriad of reasons. Probably one of the largest being that in Darkfall at least, too much power was drawn from non-destructible character elements (character skills) and it absolutely ruined the game for incoming players. Especially if they didn't use macros to grind. Eventually the whole population was super powered vets, and new players were coming in, looking at the grind times / power disparity, saying "**** this!" and leaving.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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23 hours ago, blazzen said:

If anything increased gear churn increases need for crafters. I do think the many step crafting process for most things could use some streamlining. We also need proper bank space. 

 

How many of your guild are full time crafters? how many do you think would want to be?

Increasing the amount of crafting isn't a good idea.

Now if you made things simpler, sure go for more churn.

With how much inter-dependence and different pieces needed, I don't think increasing the churn would be good.

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1 minute ago, Ussiah said:

How many of your guild are full time crafters? how many do you think would want to be?

Increasing the amount of crafting isn't a good idea.

Now if you made things simpler, sure go for more churn.

With how much inter-dependence and different pieces needed, I don't think increasing the churn would be good.

It's not good to balance a game around the limitations of being half-finished. We can assume banking improvements and the introduction of thralls will make the game much more churn-friendly. And if we can't then this game will get rated very poorly on it's crafting system in general once the "it's an alpha" defense no longer applies.


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Just now, Andius said:

It's not good to balance a game around the limitations of being half-finished. We can assume banking improvements and the introduction of thralls will make the game much more churn-friendly. And if we can't then this game will get rated very poorly on it's crafting system in general once the "it's an alpha" defense no longer applies.

I am sorry, when I predict I look at how things are currently. I won't base my predictions on rainbows when ACE hasn't produced any form of mass production and hasn't told us a timeline for it being put in.

It should be obvious if they made things easier(thralls etc) that there would be less work for players.

 

 

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I'm not predicting rainbows, I'm predicting a viable game model for a non-alpha game. I'm going to assume that much because otherwise we are all wasting our time here / if I'm wrong then nothing that happens in this game will matter.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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31 minutes ago, Andius said:

Every single PvP centric MMO with or without full loot is a ghost town except one. EVE.

EVE has full loss of ship, gear, and implants (if you get podded) on death. The killer only gets partial loot but the losses are full so close enough.

The problem with Darkfall, Mortal etc. wasn't full loot.  It's that they were fundamentally bad games for a myriad of reasons. Probably one of the largest being that in Darkfall at least, too much power was drawn from non-destructible character elements (character skills) and it absolutely ruined the game for incoming players. Especially if they didn't use macros to grind. Eventually the whole population was super powered vets, and new players were coming in, looking at the grind times / power disparity, saying "**** this!" and leaving.

And Eve online is a fundamentally good game and would be so even without full loot.

Perpetuum was ripped and copied from Eve Online source code and had full loot, it was a fun game, it's gone now mainly due to lack of PVE /Bad PVE

I disagree if you are talking about Claus Grovdal's Darkfall published by Adventurine SA. Heavy handed vets didn't kill that game. Opening the NA server split the population and ruined the economy . But I do agree Darkfall was a clunky game  

Edited by corvax

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As a universal rule, there isn't a major PvP MMO title you can list that I can't cite barrier to entry as a primary reason for failure. Generally it's #1 on the list. Darkfall isn't just not an exception to the rule, the original Darkfall is the worst offender on the entire list for full loot PvP games. You have to go to Themeparks forced into trying to be PvP games like ArcheAge to get worse.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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10 hours ago, corvax said:

You've got me there, drinking to excess is a sin, I have fallen from the True Word because alcoholism is the only way I can reconcile perma-death with crowfall, can I get an indulgence? I will say three hail Urban's and trim the hedges tonight when we defend our five keeps, whose head do you want trimmed? 

Exercise discretion, but never restraint my son.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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@corvax just offer @Andius a fight of equal numbers with comp/numbers his choice.  He’ll make a few backpedaling excuses and then surprisingly have nothing more to add.

Full loot in this game would have to come with a considerable change to crafting/harvesting and storage, making it less tedious, so that you then add that tedium back in the form of churning.  Tedium balance would be maintained.

Like in full loot games you need lots and of storage so you can store many sets of gear.  That would be EK-managed maybe.

For me, it just ends up being a different form of death or respawn timer.  Early game is weapon only until mats start flowing, then later, after death, you just make a detour to the storage boxes before rejoining the fight.

If the system doesn’t allow for continuous access to competitive pvp exposure, by resource, crafting, storage bottlenecking or reentry time, people leave, and do not return.

One large negative thing that I can think of is it completely devalues the crafting of items, such as legendary or hard to craft/gather items since they can’t actually be used.

I do find it odd that the same people who are getting continuously  “killed by skilled Zerg” want full loot.  Lol.

 

 

Edited by Ble

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2 hours ago, Ble said:

@corvax just offer @Andius a fight of equal numbers with comp/numbers his choice.  He’ll make a few backpedaling excuses and then surprisingly have nothing more to add.

Full loot in this game would have to come with a considerable change to crafting/harvesting and storage, making it less tedious, so that you then add that tedium back in the form of churning.  Tedium balance would be maintained.

Like in full loot games you need lots and of storage so you can store many sets of gear.  That would be EK-managed maybe.

For me, it just ends up being a different form of death or respawn timer.  Early game is weapon only until mats start flowing, then later, after death, you just make a detour to the storage boxes before rejoining the fight.

If the system doesn’t allow for continuous access to competitive pvp exposure, by resource, crafting, storage bottlenecking or reentry time, people leave, and do not return.

One large negative thing that I can think of is it completely devalues the crafting of items, such as legendary or hard to craft/gather items since they can’t actually be used.

I do find it odd that the same people who are getting continuously  “killed by skilled Zerg” want full loot.  Lol.

 

 

ideally with factories you could stack identical gear with no dura loss so you could have 10 sets stacked. 

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3 hours ago, Ble said:

@corvax just offer @Andius a fight of equal numbers with comp/numbers his choice.  He’ll make a few backpedaling excuses and then surprisingly have nothing more to add.

Full loot in this game would have to come with a considerable change to crafting/harvesting and storage, making it less tedious, so that you then add that tedium back in the form of churning.  Tedium balance would be maintained.

Like in full loot games you need lots and of storage so you can store many sets of gear.  That would be EK-managed maybe.

For me, it just ends up being a different form of death or respawn timer.  Early game is weapon only until mats start flowing, then later, after death, you just make a detour to the storage boxes before rejoining the fight.

If the system doesn’t allow for continuous access to competitive pvp exposure, by resource, crafting, storage bottlenecking or reentry time, people leave, and do not return.

One large negative thing that I can think of is it completely devalues the crafting of items, such as legendary or hard to craft/gather items since they can’t actually be used.

I do find it odd that the same people who are getting continuously  “killed by skilled Zerg” want full loot.  Lol.

 

 

i believe they are under the impression they will eventually kill the "zerg" and get all that loot 


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