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Dober

Why are Assassins so gimped in this game?

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2 minutes ago, Kianna_RuneMaker said:

read my post again friend.  I explained exactly what I ment in it

Your not at all commenting on your previous false statement regarding black mask being a must but nvm, each to their own. 

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Posted (edited)

Stealth is your "gap closer", and in this game, your escape mechanism as well. Not needing to be out of "combat" to re-stealth is very powerful.
How is someone supposed to fight a stealther that can open and disengage at will via stealth, AND have more gap closers than they already have?

 

You don't get to have a free opener, AND a free dis-engage, AND do the most damage in melee. Sorry, Assassins can't have everything, just like other classes can't either.

Edited by Phr00t

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Here are my suggestions. 

Hookchain - Pulls your target to you. (Gap Closer)

Sand Swipe - Throw sand in the face of your target, lowering accuracy.

Exploit - Find the weakpoint in your opponent's armor. (Critical Hits if landed from Stealth, Bleeds for 1/8 HP over 10 seconds) 

Dead Crow  - Trick your opponent into thinking they've killed you. - Disengage/De-target 

Shrapnel - Drop sharp pieces of metal to stop your opponent from pursuing. (Stun/Slow)  OR 

Shadowbind - Use magic, forcing your opponent's shadow to trap them in a cage (Chase Breaker) 

Crow's Malice - Cheap shot your opponent, slowing them down by 5 seconds. - If done from Stealth, increases the debuff time to 8 seconds. (CC)

 

This kit would make Assassin quite hard to fight. Engagement would need to be planned. These are just my ideas.

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Biggest thing Assassins lack right now is good anti healing, IMO. It was way overpowered in the 5.7 era of stackable 2,500 pt heal blockers but it got nerfed way too hard also. 

The disease toxin should do 50% more heal blocking than the poison toxin does direct damage and refresh instead of stack. 

So if poison toxin does 1,000 damage then disease toxin should be a 1,500 pt heal block. 

Would also be nice if toxin damage scaled either by weapon damage or by an experimental stat on the toxin itself. Having set, static damage levels causes balance issues also (strong early game, weak late game). 

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Posted (edited)

@RhapsodyDownpour

Hookchain - Pulls your target to you. (Gap Closer) 
- Before the fight has started, stealth is our gap closer. We really don't have a good gap closer once the fight a has started though. Using Disengage/Engage with a couple of quick 180 flips is about as good as we get. If an opponent can leap or charge away from the fight, it is difficult for us to close with them again. Using Chain/Net Pull to drag an opponent to a location where they can be dog-piled is a specialty already occupied by knights & myrms.

Sand Swipe - Throw sand in the face of your target, lowering accuracy. - 
I am surprised we don't have access to either a blind or disorient. This is staple goods for the typical rogue/assassin kit.

Exploit - Find the weakpoint in your opponent's armor. (Critical Hits if landed from Stealth, Bleeds for 1/8 HP over 10 seconds)  
- We have a few skills following this line of thinking. The cutthroat promotion gets some wicked crit bonuses to their ambush ability, the vandal promotion gives a bleed to Kidney Shot, and all assassin lines can add crit strike to backstab. We also have the ability to expose an enemy. While it doesn't help us a lot, other classes take great advantage from an exposed enemy.

Dead Crow  - Trick your opponent into thinking they've killed you. - Disengage/De-target 
- Yaga's gift from the vandal promotion is close to this. I still hear players calling assassins down in discord, only to have them re-appear a few moments later. Following Yaga's with Vanish & Lay-low allows for a nasty surprise while they're looking for your corpse.

Shrapnel - Drop sharp pieces of metal to stop your opponent from pursuing. (Stun/Slow)  OR Shadowbind - Use magic, forcing your opponent's shadow to trap them in a cage
- The Agent provocateur discipline gives us and AOE slow from stealth. Diffusion with poison toxin applies a slow, and illusionist applies a slow on every 3rd basic attack.

Crow's Malice - Cheap shot your opponent, slowing them down by 5 seconds. - If done from Stealth, increases the debuff time to 8 seconds. (CC) 
- Vandals have a cheap shot ability, it's an unbreakable stun.

So we do have access to something similar to much of what you noted. What's important though is that we can never have all of them at once. It wouldn't just make assassin hard to fight, it would make us both impossible to escape from and nearly impossible to lock down and kill. Coupled with the ability to pick our fights from stealth and avoid fights we don't want, it would be completely imbalancing.

Edited by VaMei

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3 hours ago, VaMei said:

@RhapsodyDownpour

Hookchain - Pulls your target to you. (Gap Closer) 
- Before the fight has started, stealth is our gap closer. We really don't have a good gap closer once the fight a has started though. Using Disengage/Engage with a couple of quick 180 flips is about as good as we get. If an opponent can leap or charge away from the fight, it is difficult for us to close with them again. Using Chain/Net Pull to drag an opponent to a location where they can be dog-piled is a specialty already occupied by knights & myrms.

Sand Swipe - Throw sand in the face of your target, lowering accuracy. - 
I am surprised we don't have access to either a blind or disorient. This is staple goods for the typical rogue/assassin kit.

Exploit - Find the weakpoint in your opponent's armor. (Critical Hits if landed from Stealth, Bleeds for 1/8 HP over 10 seconds)  
- We have a few skills following this line of thinking. The cutthroat promotion gets some wicked crit bonuses to their ambush ability, the vandal promotion gives a bleed to Kidney Shot, and all assassin lines can add crit strike to backstab. We also have the ability to expose an enemy. While it doesn't help us a lot, other classes take great advantage from an exposed enemy.

Dead Crow  - Trick your opponent into thinking they've killed you. - Disengage/De-target 
- Yaga's gift from the vandal promotion is close to this. I still hear players calling assassins down in discord, only to have them re-appear a few moments later. Following Yaga's with Vanish & Lay-low allows for a nasty surprise while they're looking for your corpse.

Shrapnel - Drop sharp pieces of metal to stop your opponent from pursuing. (Stun/Slow)  OR Shadowbind - Use magic, forcing your opponent's shadow to trap them in a cage
- The Agent provocateur discipline gives us and AOE slow from stealth. Diffusion with poison toxin applies a slow, and illusionist applies a slow on every 3rd basic attack.

Crow's Malice - Cheap shot your opponent, slowing them down by 5 seconds. - If done from Stealth, increases the debuff time to 8 seconds. (CC) 
- Vandals have a cheap shot ability, it's an unbreakable stun.

So we do have access to something similar to much of what you noted. What's important though is that we can never have all of them at once. It wouldn't just make assassin hard to fight, it would make us both impossible to escape from and nearly impossible to lock down and kill. Coupled with the ability to pick our fights from stealth and avoid fights we don't want, it would be completely imbalancing.

Ah. So it seems my line of thinking was already on par.  Is there any way for an Assassin to open with a Stun out of Stealth? I was also thinking something along the lines of Assassin possibly being something like a Runeblade.  Magic+Dagger Skills. They'd use Rune Magic and apply debuffs/traps.

Unleash: Unleash your Mark, allow its effects to be felt by your opponent.

Rune of Mana - Your magic attacks are bolstered by the power of rune magic. (Passive/Toggle) by 1/3/5/7% (Pips) 

Rune of War - Your physical attacks are bolstered by the power of rune magic. (Passive/Toggle)  2/4/6/8% (Pips) 

Mark of Suffering - Mark your enemy with the rune "Mein" (Pain) - Unleash Effect: Increases damage dealt to a single target by 10%.

Unleash - Unleash Marks you've applied to your enemy, only one mark can be applied at a time, but multiple marks can be unleashed in succession. 

Rune of Cleansing - Wipe away (up to 3) magical debuffs from yourself or an opponent and restores health by 5/10/15% (3 Pips) 

Mark of Frost - Mark your enemy with the rune of "Hoarfrost" - Unleash Effect:  Slows your opponent with the power of ice for 10 seconds. Can only be executed with daggers. 

Rune of Incineration - Conjure and hurl at your opponent one large fireball. Upon hitting the enemy it splits off into 2/4/6  smaller fireballs. Each doing 3% less damage. (Can apply a small DoT effect, i.e - Burning) 

Rune of Shielding - Create a barrier around yourself or an ally that absorbs damage based on the Runes HP. (Rune's HP dependent on a stat to determine HP value.) You could give this a lengthy cooldown to keep it from being spammed. 

Rune of Earth - Imbue the earth with a rune that causes it to shift and tremor, knocking opponents into the air for X amount of seconds. 

Mark of Scintillation - Mark your opponent with a rune of Light - Unleash Effect: Upon activation, the light detonates, dealing no damage. But severely blinding your opponent and dizzying them. 

(Ult) - Runic Clarity - Doubles your efficiency in Rune Magic Spells - Increases Debuff Timers by 10 Seconds/Cleanse Up to 5 Debuffs - Marks Deal Double Damage

 

 

 

 

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On 5/25/2019 at 8:57 AM, Dober said:

Like in so many other games I prefer playing an assassin.
However I was shocked to discover how “wrong” this class has been implemented in Crowfall.
The only classical assassin features that were kept here are stealth, poisons and damage from behind

 

Where are the gap closers?

Your gap closer is stealth....

I mean, you seem to blow off the strength and power of being invisible and choosing your fights pretty handily.

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