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ferrat

Crowfall is not a PvP game.

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34 minutes ago, Pepsie said:

This right here is what currently is turning me off to Crow fall PVP. Individual Skill I think makes things fun and should make a lot more difference in a pvp fight. I was really excited about this being twitch style skill based PVP, envisioned the fighting Mechanics to be akin to Smite.  Also in Smite or other MOBA's healing classes are damage first healing second and if your team comp isn't Tank, Healer, DPS then you still have possible counters that don't make healers mandatory.

I dread the possibility that PVP in this game will turn into wow style PvP or battle grounds where healers make it way to difficult to down a tank. I personally think Healers are a major problem with most RPG pvp games.

Less healing I say, divide some healing abilities into the classes. Turn healers into PvPers than can support not sustain a group.

The issue we've seen with the "firehose healing" nerf is that it created a new meta of 2 healers per group. Now groups have more demand for healers, but the overall healing output didn't take a major hit. They do need to nerf personal healing modifier rings though after they fix jewelry dura loss. That's one of the things making healing so powerful in it's current form. People are running rings that dramatically increase incoming healing, and a lot of people are running Hand of Glory to get a third ringslot for it.

As someone who has played healer across many games I'm used to being like "Personal healing modifier! I want that!" any time I play a main healer. It's also generally a very solid option on off-heals or classes that tank via self-healing. The problem with it in its current state is that a lot of people who have no heals in their kit, no pocket healer, and are running 2-3 personal healing mod rings just because the effects are so great.

And when personal healing mod becomes a no-brainer decision for a non-healer, you know it's a bit OP right now.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Crowfall really doesn't require or reward a high level of twitch aiming skills like Darkfall or Counter-Strike. Crowfall is essentially a Real Time Strategy game where each unit is a player. You need to coordinate base building, economy, and warfare between dozens, if not hundreds of players taking part in social organizations which are  competing with one another.

@Rikutatis

You're absolutely right when you say this level of complexity and depth can be daunting to new players. Shadowbane and EVE had the same problems. The only solution I can think of is to stress the importance of getting involved in a guild or social organization that will guide and support new players. Having a robust and well provisioned player-run economy and marketplace(s) will also help with retention as players can cut out a little of the intermediate steps to getting gear.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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I have spend the entire campaign hunting rare drops in order to make  a vessel that is pvp viable.

I have killed probably 20-25 Rare Spawns and found 0 Goggles. So I have been beaten not by  Balance and Order but instead by a random number generator and Art Craft Entertainment Developers.

( If you have a set to trade I have 3 of every other tome/ recipe)

just getting enough interested people together to hold a spawn and kill a Wartribe boss is like pulling teeth.

 


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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45 minutes ago, Jah said:

The topic at hand is that "Crowfall is not a PvP game" and that is such ridiculous hyperbole that ACE will ignore it.

Skilled harvesters that is PvE @Jah and you of all persons should know that with your SB background - ACE can`t be happy with their current implementations. :)


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Gear is not as important as many are claiming. The differences are minimal. And with the dura loss I’m willing to bet a lot aren’t even rolling in their best. 

The passive training time locked gate plays a much larger role. Just getting thru the 2 middle trees in combat makes a huge difference, especially armor mitigation’s. That difference you see in older vs newer accounts being more “dominant” is exactly this. The passive training gate will severely limit new players post launch. And adding catch up mechanics later just shows the idea from the beginning was poorly conceived. 

The other limiting factor is the pve grind for complete random drops that play a large role in gear quality. A blue vessel with no goggles vs one with goggles is significant. Having all your major and minors makes a big deal, especially how poorly balanced/designed the classes are. If they were to make it so only certain minors drop from certain wartribes it would help. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Rikutatis said:

Funny enough, Ashes of Creation seems to be the one with the best action combat out of the bunch, but its pvp systems are more like BDO, a mix of sandbox and battleground/flagging.  Plus it has other problems. There's a BR in Alpha called Spellbreak that has a combat system that is just begging to become a pvp MMO or at least MMO-lite style of game. Brilliant combat and tons of build customization too. Each build feels completely different from the next. I hope that game succeeds and they do another more massive game with that foundation. 

Hehe, you need to read up on their bounty system, but maybe they  change it recently. :D

I actually like ESO back in the days - only if Cyrodiil was guild based warfare to battle the capital city of Tamriel! :)


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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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12 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

I have killed probably 20-25 Rare Spawns and found 0 Goggles. So I have been beaten not by  Balance and Order but instead by a random number generator and Art Craft Entertainment Developers.

Right that's probably the most disturbing element of the game right now. I'm fine with a bit of RNG within a reasonable range like "_____ drops 5-10 gold each time it's killed" or "_____ ability does 25-35 damage." But when one person can go minor farming and get their desired minor first drop, and another can farm for days without finding the minor they want, that's a huge issue. At that point they're making luck a huge factor in the pacing of the game which undermines skill/strategy etc.

It's a dark path games like ArcheAge have gone sprinting down and even most dedicated members of their community loathe it with a passion.

Any time we can't expect to get multiple drops of the same item hitting it's source for an hour here's the rule you need to go by AC. 100% of the time:

Split it up into components, make the the components drop at a fairly predictable rate so that if it's an item you don't want to be easy to earn it will average a certain number of hours to farm within small range (For instance 8 hours give or take 1 hour). NEVER allow RNG to be the primary determining factor in how fast someone farms an item.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Just now, soulein said:

Having a robust and well provisioned player-run economy and marketplace(s) will also help with retention as players can cut out a little of the intermediate steps to getting gear.

How long have we been saying "yeah but the market getting populated will fix everything"

When has the market ever been populated enough to fix everything?

If the game is predicated on the player marketplace serving the replenishment needs of the majority of players, I find it odd that this has never once happened. Even when we went almost a year without a wipe the market was still mostly full of white garbage nobody wanted.

Fact is the lack of automation, the stingy drop rate of materials, and the near total pointlessness of gold coins has been choking the crafting and harvesting sector for an age, and in doing so has choked the pvp sector as well by forcing them to do far more harvesting and crafting than they'd like.

It is insane that, with a group of trained harvesters, in spring, I can barely harvest enough material to equip the entire group in a single session. That's an output I'd expect from the untrained. Maxed out harvesters I'd expect to have equipped with enough left over to equip another five people.


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57 minutes ago, Jah said:

The topic at hand is that "Crowfall is not a PvP game" and that is such ridiculous hyperbole that ACE will ignore it.

So that's make it okay for people to cry like small spoiled kids about stuff they did to each other in game, it's of topic and disrespectful to the person starting this topic. 

Please do go find another place to those who wish to act like spoiled kids and discuss in game feuds. 

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2 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

How long have we been saying "yeah but the market getting populated will fix everything"

When has the market ever been populated enough to fix everything?

If the game is predicated on the player marketplace serving the replenishment needs of the majority of players, I find it odd that this has never once happened. Even when we went almost a year without a wipe the market was still mostly full of white garbage nobody wanted.

Fact is the lack of automation, the stingy drop rate of materials, and the near total pointlessness of gold coins has been choking the crafting and harvesting sector for an age, and in doing so has choked the pvp sector as well by forcing them to do far more harvesting and crafting than they'd like.

It is insane that, with a group of trained harvesters, in spring, I can barely harvest enough material to equip the entire group in a single session. That's an output I'd expect from the untrained. Maxed out harvesters I'd expect to have equipped with enough left over to equip another five people.

We need resource refineries -> caravans -> factories. Let's get industrial.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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9 minutes ago, PaleOne said:

I have spend the entire campaign hunting rare drops in order to make  a vessel that is pvp viable.

I have killed probably 20-25 Rare Spawns and found 0 Goggles. So I have been beaten not by  Balance and Order but instead by a random number generator and Art Craft Entertainment Developers.

( If you have a set to trade I have 3 of every other tome/ recipe)

just getting enough interested people together to hold a spawn and kill a Wartribe boss is like pulling teeth.

 

Yes that is the root of the issue in my view. We are forced to actually do PvE activity find rare resources/drops to upgrade Vessels to be  pvp viable. I believe we would have a better quality content and our focus somewhere else without the whole Vessel system. Harvesting rare ore or maths/leather has nothing to do with PvP or combat progression.  

Do we have PvP/combat/siege experience yet after we defended or attacked a keep?  


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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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6 minutes ago, mythx said:

Skilled harvesters that is PvE @Jah and you of all persons should know that with your SB background - ACE can`t be happy with their current implementations. :)

I didn't say ACE is happy with their current implementation. I said the claim that "Crowfall is not a PvP game" is such ridiculous hyperbole that ACE will ignore it.


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3 minutes ago, mythx said:

We are forced to actually do PvE activity find rare resources/drops to upgrade Vessels to be  pvp viable. 

Is this somehow controversial? More PvE means there will also be more small scale PvP content available. I'm not sure why people expect they can jump in the game and jump straight into PvP and be viable.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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11 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

How long have we been saying "yeah but the market getting populated will fix everything"

When has the market ever been populated enough to fix everything?

If the game is predicated on the player marketplace serving the replenishment needs of the majority of players, I find it odd that this has never once happened. Even when we went almost a year without a wipe the market was still mostly full of white garbage nobody wanted.

Fact is the lack of automation, the stingy drop rate of materials, and the near total pointlessness of gold coins has been choking the crafting and harvesting sector for an age, and in doing so has choked the pvp sector as well by forcing them to do far more harvesting and crafting than they'd like.

Yeah vendors for the most part are trash. People post their flawed assemblies on them, they don't generally post anything that comes out very well.

That may be an issue that is fixed by a larger population but I think even then you're still going to see a tendency for all the best items to be exchanged directly between the person who finds/creates it and members of their guild/inner circle.

In terms of say like, a perfectly rolled purple or orange vessel I'd argue that isn't a problem. Situations like that is why guilds want to bring crafters into their fold. To have people directly working on the guild's needs and giving them the cream of the crop in terms of what they produce.

In terms of basic items everyone needs access to like goggles, it's a huge problem.


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Yes true I understand you @Jah. I`m trying to get updated - not played CF in almost 5 months. And most enjoyed combat/pvp especially those from the SB days in that particular game. We should be rewarded for pvp in my view - a keep or castle siege should benefit the guild/faction depends on the campaign setting. Maybe give us unique trophies named sword, or armor, or something that promote pvp activities, and, of course, character experience if u lack it on your new character in combat vs other players


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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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3 minutes ago, soulein said:

Is this somehow controversial? More PvE means there will also be more small scale PvP content available. I'm not sure why people expect they can jump in the game and jump straight into PvP and be viable.

I might be wrong but qs I remember they kind of sold crowfall as an allmost none grind pvp game to begin with? 

I think that's why people expect they can jump straight in at the game and start pvp. 

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9 minutes ago, soulein said:

Is this somehow controversial? More PvE means there will also be more small scale PvP content available. I'm not sure why people expect they can jump in the game and jump straight into PvP and be viable.

It was not the point though - it will be side activities and we all know that harvesting & crafting is important in this game and kind of unique as well compare to other mmos. 

Yes true @PinkFluffyPanda I had that expression and wish when I first invested into this project - I hope items were easy accessable and reach end game to have fun and battle in large siege wars and campaign, and focus less on logisitic like stones, ore, leather, resources. 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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