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ferrat

Crowfall is not a PvP game.

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14 minutes ago, oneply said:

lol

I can’t say what I want to say without getting scolded so I’ll leave it at, organization and tactics usually win over numbers. 

My statement remains as is. Prove me wrong or keep bringing irrelevant “evidence” to the table. 

You stated as fact: HoA cannot crush alone.

I provide you relevant evidence that HoA can, in fact, crush alone.  And better yet, HoA was outnumbered 8 to 20, and still better, you were on the receiving end of said crushing.

Your statement does, in fact, remain as is, because you have not edited it.  It also remains false.

The post you quoted, with the video, is your proof.  The irony is that you won't accept it, even having been there, which is what I was pointing out.

Lastly, I'll agree, organization and tactics do usually win over number, but only to a point and there are many other factors (some pointed out in the video) that also contribute.

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18 minutes ago, oneply said:

I really don’t think that is why people are leaving. At least any of our people have not said so who aren’t playing. Mostly it’s hatred over the Rez/dura loss situation or people sick of grinding for minors/majors and not getting them. 

The problem I have with the grinding is that you don't seem to get a decent return on time spent. And I understand needing a group to conquer a lot of this stuff, I'm cool with it and have a 4-6 person team waiting for the game to be good enough to jump back in. But the community seems to be of the understanding that a good guild should just give you the things you need to be viable early on, and I say that's absolutely not fun.  

I wouldn't mind not having minors/majors as much if they weren't such a crutch for some of the class specializations to feel fleshed out. But barring that, I think a lot of the community is feeling the grind because we had a lot of things that were easily attained for testing reasons that we now rely on and have to obtain by interacting with a given game loop. Compound the difficulty gate that are wartribes, the scarcity of gold (and diminished return of exp from it), the sudden lack of worthwhile sacrifice-able items, and the nearly untouched class talent/skill balances that abound since early 5.8 at least, and you've got a mess on your hands.

I left initially due to class balance, pending arrival of 5.9. The character controller fixed a lot of of the performance and movement issues I had, so I thought it was going to be a plus. I honestly don't know what we need now, other than ACE to commit to following through with upcoming systems integration in a timely manner. 

A.K.A. Frostweaver ain't gonna fix this poorly made socks lol

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29 minutes ago, Andius said:

I think a lot of people are reluctant to site faction imbalance as a reason for leaving as it's basically stating they are giving up, while citing development reasons allows them to keep their pride in tact if they think there is any shame in quitting out of a three faction game where half the players are stacked on one faction.

People like you have been lying about faction numbers for exactly that reason-- to keep your pride intact. You don't like to admit you've been beaten by better players and so you claim it was a zerg with unbeatable numbers.

It is now finally true that half the players are on one faction. People were claiming Balance outnumbered everyone back when Chaos was the largest faction, and they kept claiming that all along. I honestly think you shot yourselves in the foot with your face-saving distortions. You convinced your own side they were hopelessy outgunned so they quit trying. And only now has it become true. Morale is important, and some of the distorted claims about Balance a few of you have been making in recent months have likely blown back on your own troops.

It is true that Balance numbers have not fallen off as badly as Chaos and Order numbers. This has to do with the fact that losing is demoralizing, and also with the fact that W and HoA have more dedicated players than most.

W and HoA have about 15 actives each, on average, at siege time lately. It is amazing that so few people could convince you that we are unbeatable.

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Edited by Jah

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2 minutes ago, Ble said:

Lastly, I'll agree, organization and tactics do usually win over number, but only to a point and there are many other factors (some pointed out in the video) that also contribute.

Is there an exchange value how many common/uncommon or rare vessels you would need to take down a team of 5 epic ones that are fully geared and skilled to the brim?

Do you even get enough vessels on a map to test that. 🤣

Tactics only works on an even plain field, would you play chess against someone that has only queens in exchange for the peasents or GO with only 5 white stones against 40 black?


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15 minutes ago, Jah said:

People like you have been lying about faction numbers for exactly that reason-- to keep your pride intact. You don't like to admit you've been beaten by better players and so you claim it was a zerg with unbeatable numbers.

5 good geared, good coordinated and with correct class setup veteran players can delete 10+ white/semi geared semi new players without any effort under guards. this is the biggest balance issue. not the numbers you are talking about all the time. numbers also matter but only if it is veteran experienced players with the same gear...

what can do 20+ with good lead you know I think. what can do those 20 with another 20 as ally you also know.

actually gear gap is abysmal. grind is crazy (for pre alpha). broken meta is mandatory (for example you like brigand but should take something else coz it is broken or underpowered). pvp without any reason with huge durability lost (which is probably dirty step from devs to remove pre fixed broken OP accessory).

grind = time. current time is not worth to be spent on.

 

ps. I still do not understand what ppl mean by "better player" in crowfall. I can understand it if they will talking about counter strike, darkfall and other skill based.

does "better" mean - more and longer hitting with harvesting tool? 😃

 

 

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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11 minutes ago, gerrylix said:

Is there an exchange value how many common/uncommon or rare vessels you would need to take down a team of 5 epic ones that are fully geared and skilled to the brim?

Do you even get enough vessels on a map to test that. 🤣

Tactics only works on an even plain field, would you play chess against someone that has only queens in exchange for the peasents or GO with only 5 white stones against 40 black?

I'm not sure what you are inferring here.  Do you know the vessel quality of all 38 people in that fight?  More to point, what does a vessel give and just how long after a wipe should the expectation be 'some vessel other than white'?  Surely we are there.  As for HoA, my druid vessel is purple but mostly we are blue because of the requirements to level and the fact that no one wants to do all that PvE.

To speak directly to your question, in a hypothetical situation, being that all things were equal outside of one team being in white vessel and the other team being in blue vessel, I'd say 20%-30% more should cover it.  So if you have 5, they should be able to overcome that with 6-7.

Has more to do with composition in low numbers though, two healers is >>>> one healer in most cases, so one healer can be supported by the other.

 

11 minutes ago, gerrylix said:

Tactics only works on an even plain field

Well that is just about 100% false.  You could edit that to say "tactics are a way to even the playing field" though.  Tactics are also a way to make an "even playing field" seem very uneven, which is what we aim for.

Edited by Ble

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Lol. Yup. Everyone quit the game because we said they were outnumbered but they weren't really. How desperate are you to pass off the blame?

It doesn't really matter. Net result is the same no matter who you are going to blame. Crowfall is now PvNothing because nearly everyone but Balance quit. The sooner it turns from PvNothing back into PvP the stronger you'll be if/when a real competitor is drawn to this game.

Or you can just keep blaming other people watch your own numbers dwindle from boredom when you have nobody left to fight.


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Just now, Andius said:

Lol. Yup. Everyone quit the game because we said they were outnumbered but they weren't really. How desperate are you to pass off the blame?

It doesn't really matter. Net result is the same no matter who you are going to blame. Crowfall is now PvNothing because nearly everyone but Balance quit. The sooner it turns from PvNothing back into PvP the stronger you'll be if/when a real competitor is drawn to this game.

Or you can just keep blaming other people watch your own numbers dwindle from boredom when you have nobody left to fight.

You are the one who is trying to blame players. This thread was about the game itself before you jumped in to derail it by blaming players.


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3 minutes ago, Andius said:

Or you can just keep blaming other people watch your own numbers dwindle from boredom when you have nobody left to fight.

It's ok, even when they turn tail and run right off a cliff we'll still fight them.

 

Edited by Ble

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26 minutes ago, Jah said:

W and HoA have about 15 actives each, on average, at siege time lately.

You do realize that put us marginally outnumbered most nights even last campaign right? Not counting Infernal, Clams, or anyone else on Balance. 15 each for 2 guilds = 30 and that was a good turn out for us LAST campaign.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Last night there was either 2 or 3 clams, 0 infernal.

How was it that you guys locked out an entire zone with zone cap if you only have 30 people?

 

Also, would you like to set up a fight of any size and comp and test your theory?  yeah, I know, you won't - quick, find a cliff.

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4 minutes ago, Andius said:

You do realize that put us marginally outnumbered most nights even last campaign right? Not counting Infernal, Clams, or anyone else on Balance. 15 each for 20 guilds = 30 and that was a good turn out for us LAST campaign.

Yes, I already acknowledged that your faction has largely stopped playing.

I'm just pointing out that this alleged mega alliance is currently about 30 actives at siege time. Less on some nights. So if we are the reason people aren't logging in then the problem is in their mind. If the formerly active guilds came back and tried again they could easily outnumber us by a large margin.


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Just now, Jah said:

Yes, I already acknowledged that your faction has largely stopped playing.

I'm just pointing out that this alleged mega alliance is currently about 30 actives at siege time. Less on some nights. So if we are the reason people aren't logging in then the problem is in their mind. If the formerly active guilds came back and tried again they could easily outnumber us by a large margin.

30 HoA/W. Infernal was at every single one of your sieges and brought a decent sized group each time, plus the support of other smaller guilds. There's a huge difference between 20something order vs 30HoA/W and 20 something order vs. what was probably more like 40-50 Balance.

Yeah last campaign we were outnumbered but still putting up a great fight as was evident by the score. This campaign it's PvNothing. 


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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6 minutes ago, Ble said:

I'm not sure what you are inferring here.  Do you know the vessel quality of all 38 people in that fight?  More to point, what does a vessel give and just how long after a wipe should the expectation be 'some vessel other than white'?  Surely we are there.  As for HoA, my druid vessel is purple but mostly we are blue because of the requirements to level and the fact that no one wants to do all that PvE.

To speak directly to your question, in a hypothetical situation, being that all things were equal outside of one team being in white vessel and the other team being in blue vessel, I'd say 20%-30% more should cover it.  So if you have 5, they should be able to overcome that with 6-7.

Has more to do with composition in low numbers though, two healers is >>>> one healer in most cases, so one healer can be supported by the other.

 

Well that is just about 100% false.  You could edit that to say "tactics are a way to even the playing field" though.  Tactics are also a way to make an "even playing field" seem very uneven, which is what we aim for.

Even my last common crafted vessel had around +200 stat points more then the starter vessel from the get go.

So if we really speak numbers, a common vessel will aquire 3*30 stat points thats 90.

For our example (starter vessel vs common crafted)

 (200+90)/90=~3,2

Let's say we have 5 common crafted around a factor of 3 we would need 15 new vessels to even the stats in a fight, not counting in any gear or professions.

And we are here just talking about common noncrafted vs common crafted.

Please tell me were you get that 20-30% from?

 

You are right that composition can change everything, but i wasn't refering to big siege battles, more of the 5vs5's or similar size.

I was also not whining or anything, just wanted point out that the powergap is not as fluff as everything says.

I won't get into the tactics discussion because that will blow the topic. You are partially right as i am wrong on the topic. :)


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13 minutes ago, Ble said:

Also, would you like to set up a fight of any size and comp and test your theory?  

Yes! Would love to setup some even number fights. It would be far more fun than what lil quality PvP we are all getting now. 

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2 minutes ago, gerrylix said:

Even my last common crafted vessel had around +200 stat points more then the starter vessel from the get go.

So if we really speak numbers, a common vessel will aquire 3*30 stat points thats 90.

For our example (starter vessel vs common crafted)

 (200+90)/90=~3,2

Let's say we have 5 common crafted around a factor of 3 we would need 15 new vessels to even the stats in a fight, not counting in any gear or professions.

And we are here just talking about common noncrafted vs common crafted.

Please tell me were you get that 20-30% from?

 

You are right that composition can change everything, but i wasn't refering to big siege battles, more of the 5vs5's or similar size.

I was also not whining or anything, just wanted point out that the powergap is not as fluff as everything says.

I won't get into the tactics discussion because that will blow the topic. You are partially right as i am wrong on the topic. :)

This is a dumb conversation.  I got he % from thinking about the number it would take to overcome some silly bit of stats and backing that into a %.  It was TWENTY VERSUS EIGHT, thats not vessels, my guy.  And like I said, you don't have the information to even make that assertion.  And like I also said, now a month post wipe and people who want to be competitive at PvP are in white vessels?  Hardly.  They are also all in blue/purple vessels. 

And since its becoming clear you dont PvP much, composition is vital in small numbers.  5 no healer vs 5 healer, even in your spreadsheet that should be 100% win to group 2 given all other factors equal.

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7 minutes ago, oneply said:

Yes! Would love to setup some even number fights. It would be far more fun than what lil quality PvP we are all getting now. 

I sent you a friend request on discord, if you'll accept I'll hit you up after siege dies down tonight and/or other nights.

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12 minutes ago, Andius said:

30 HoA/W. Infernal was at every single one of your sieges and brought a decent sized group each time, plus the support of other smaller guilds. There's a huge difference between 20something order vs 30HoA/W and 20 something order vs. what was probably more like 40-50 Balance.

You are fibbing about numbers again.

I can't help but think this rage against the winners mentality is a habit of yours. See also, your rage against the "Tyrants" of Archeage.

Edited by Jah

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I don't think the Balance is unstoppable. I think the coordination between HOA, Winterblades and crew is fantastic (in a sense of preparation). I feel their characters are strong but their comp is complete and thorough. I agree with some of these balance guys, we need to get our act together (Chaos and Order) collectively or separate.

I know Balance hate's the Z word, but it's all about perspective. When you see 30-50 Balance coming VS a 10-20 man guild it can feel like a zergling army is coming.

Back to one of the main points though, coordination is key. What would happen if Chaos and Order started working together either in their own faction or collectively? Then our 10-15 man groups, doubled and tripped with each alliance would be more than enough to bring them down.

Let's play smarter. Let's comp better. Less pointing fingers, more shaking hands.

 

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