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ferrat

Crowfall is not a PvP game.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, TheMap said:

CF is a glorified crafting simulator. It isn't hardcore due to its pvp, its hardcore crafting/grinding. Everything in crowfall can be accomplished without having to pvp at all.

This succinctly conveys what I think the point of this thread should be. I bought into this game for hardcore PvP, and in its current pre-alpha state, very few incentives exist to PvP. The only hardcore aspect of the game, right now, is how long it takes to craft and grind materials. Right now, part of that time is waiting for your passive skill to reach a certain level.

I think this game badly needs more incentives to PvP, and I think the upcoming embargo changes are a step in the right direction. However, I still think this game needs a progression system related to PvP that has a meaningful impact.

I still feel optimistic about this game, but in its current state, it's not a PvP game.

Edited by eskie

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Posted (edited)

1) It`s always a new game in this industry - especially in the mmos genre. I can only speak about myself and my own opinion, but if I don`t enjoy the game I move on until the next mmo pvp focus project. 

2) It`s definitely not and that is facts: "We have too many x developers from Star Wars Galaxies hence this forum structure even mention the old game with crafting background!" :)

3) Well obvious statements and facts: But brief Crowfall has too much focus on harvesting & crafting which is too complicated and require a lot of time investment into the game Crowfall. I know this, because everytime I play a brief CF session I need to explain a crafter you need passive skills to unlock, and explain x,y reasons why he can`t craft that exact item with words complicated and boring.

4) Fine you don`t need 100 + players based on simple crafting & harvesting materials.. However if u like to win a campaign like myself - you have no idea what you talking about. And you have no idea that I directly compete vs great pvp guilds in Shadowbane, or in Darkfall since 2002-2012.  I know what I talk about when I telling you this game is not designed for lone wolves or single players trying their luck in an open sand box world like Crowfall. But I know this setting is garbage faction - and most of us are looking for that Dregs campaign setting. And don`t pretend you know me, because you dont @Ble.

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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11 minutes ago, mythx said:

1) It`s always a new game in this industry - especially in the mmos genre. I can only speak about myself and my own opinion, but if I don`t enjoy the game I move on until the next mmo pvp focus project. 

2) It`s definitely not and that is facts: "We have too many x developers from Star Wars Galaxies hence this forum structure even mention the old game with crafting background!" :)

3) Well obvious statements and facts: But brief Crowfall has too much focus on harvesting & crafting which is too complicated and require a lot of time investment into the game Crowfall. I know this, because everytime I play a brief CF session I need to explain a crafter you need passive skills to unlock, and explain x,y reasons why he can`t craft that exact item with words complicated and boring.

4) Fine you don`t need 100 + players based on simple crafting & harvesting materials.. However if u like to win a campaign like myself - you have no idea what you talking about. And you have no idea that I directly compete vs great pvp guilds in Shadowbane, or in Darkfall since 2002-2012.  I know what I talk about when I telling you this game is not designed for lone wolves or single players trying their luck in an open sand box world like Crowfall. But I know this setting is garbage faction - and most of us are looking for that Dregs campaign setting. And don`t pretend you know me, because you dont @Ble.

You're now saying that you said stuff that you did not say.  I was refuting what you ACTUALLY said, not what you omitted, left out or meant to say.

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You can't point at one thing.  It's not just gear, it's not just training, it's not just organization, it's not just group composition, it's not just experience, it's not just knowledge, it's ALL of these things.  I've been running around on a confessor with a white book (just upgraded to purple yesterday) and a set of blue leather with no jewelry, and I don't think I've died once this campaign.  Like Soulein said in the other thread, this isn't just a PVP game right now.  Its an RTS-MMO-RPG and you have to put in the work before the fight to be competitive.  We need to continue to provide feedback to encourage the devs to implement quality of life improvements, and hopefully when they finish up these systems we'll see a game that is a lot more palatable to a broader audience.


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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Ble said:

That gear is very nice.  Much better than my gear, almost every slot.  I think I might have 1 ring better than that ring and my staff is purple, but in whole, I'm considerably less stats.

 

Well done Fayde.

You can`t compete against LoD with your (10-12) guys guild, because I know you are clueless poster who knows nothing about guild or politics of old, or how well old guilds are org. If I was you I would find a different game, because you looking lost here and confused trying to protect your own opinion about Crowfall, but in the larger picture you have no ideas what is going on. 

I know LoD since Ultima Online in 98, they know what they are doing in this game if they have anyone to compete against otherwise they are gone too, unfortunately.

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, mythx said:

You can`t compete with LoD with your (10-12) guys guild, because I know you are clueless poster who knows nothing about guild or politics of old, or how well old guilds are org. If I was you I would find a different game, because you looking lost here and confused trying to protect your own opinion about Crowfall, but in the larger picture you have no ideas what is going on. 

I know LoD since Ultima Online in 98, they know what they are doing in this game if they have anyone to compete against otherwise they are gone too, unfortunately.

What does competing with random guys who played random games at some other random date have anything to do with me refuting your false claims, defeatist attitude and hyperbole?

Edited by Ble

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1 hour ago, PinkFluffyPanda said:

1. small group/guild's can not compete with the supply chain of bigger guilds. They can't simply "gear up" 

2. The game is IMO way to gear dependent, compared to skill dependent. 

3. The people who has the time to no life the game will automatically out shine other people in pvp who don't have the time to gear up.

Again due to this game being about gear/vessels more than individual skill. 

yes. I would like also add:

4) very poor balance between gear persistence and amount of time to get it (overall exploring+prepairing+gathering+bringing+founding crafter+crafting). I even do not count dura lost on death here. just dura lost while farming

5) because of 1/2/3/4, this game is very dependent on logistic (found <-> gather <-> bring <-> craft). there is more and more coming new features which make crafters/keepers/gatherers life very hard. 

6) because of 5 it can't be pvp game. it can't be also if you pve 90% of the time.

7) very depend on numbers if all similar "quality" of players.

8 ) no class balance, alot of useless skills. I mean 80% of skills are useless, really.

9) out of control stats amount, out of control RNG

I did not count crazy amount of bugs and low development base parts of the game like map, UI, leaderboard and such what is the feeling like it was made temporarily but it become as persistent for a long time already. I really do not understand

 

btw this topic become in pros and cons (mostly cons). good bread to devs.


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4 minutes ago, mythx said:

Did they banned your old account @Ble ? lol I`m done with this topic. Actually installing CF for another brief session, cu in game! :)

Not you, but all the others, haha. 

Not sure what you're asking, but I don't have an old account.  The fact that you didn't even have CF installed clears up alot for me though.  Hmu here or on discord at Ble#5916 to set something up.

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Lots of people with opinions that don't even play the game.  You get what you pay for though.  Everyone that purchases an account gets to speak here, and unfortunately the devs have no idea who is actually playing the game.  Pretending LoD is any sort of entity in the current game is a joke, and I don't think ACE knows that. We can't wait for these guilds to come back WHEN/IF they do, because more people to fight makes the game more interesting for everyone.


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Posted (edited)

@Allinavi - If you read the topic you can see I was addressing concerns raised by other people about gear gap and lack of skill in the game. And I was very sure to say that gear gap is much smaller here than any other game. However we did get to see gear gap become a thing in the Trial of Valkyn. It was partially driven by issues like boards but the fact is if someone is in legendaries and someone else is in blues the person in oranges has a notable advantage. The person in blues is more competitive than someone in mid tier gear in any other PvP MMO I've seen but gear gap exists if the gear disparity is there, and there is no reason to assume that durability will always stay the way it is right now unless they adjust other factors like resource cost.

I'm not really sure what your point was with your bolding my quote here: "I'd also refute the claim skill doesn't matter." Are you assuming the reader isn't able to read the first part of that sentence or are you attempting to make the claim skill doesn't matter?

Skill matters, and it matters more than your mythical "META". The problem with META as defined by Balance, is that it's defined by balance and it ignores some of the breakthroughs made by the better build creators on Order. When you guys are criticizing us for running bomb druids on stream but Jah is a hamster cleric clearly our "META" is not the same (But we do appreciate the free rings). And sure many people are running completely out in left field builds that aren't as valuable as if they were running Order meta, but Order doesn't force people to play one thing or another. Others of us are running builds that aren't part of our meta because we've discussed them with other major players in Order and are testing them to see if they SHOULD be meta. Because you can't really fully understand a build until you've used it quite a bit.

I'd rather have people with non-meta builds that know and enjoy their builds than people who rigorously conform to the unimaginative Balance meta.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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It`s fine I hope you enjoy the game @Ble- I was just done argue with you. An mmo is complicated which was my point and we were used to org. much larger guilds than 100+ in older mmos related to pvp and alliances. It`s a fine balance line to be a successful game - the reason we started to argue is that you protect CF and enjoy the game and that is all good.

I just stated fact that the game industry will move on no matter how successful Artcraft will be when they launch Crowfall - it`s always a new mmo with a huge budget - it was not directly a hit towards CF. It is just how it is.  

 


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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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2 minutes ago, mythx said:

It`s fine I hope you enjoy the game @Ble- I was just done argue with you. An mmo is complicated which was my point and we were used to org. much larger guilds than 100+ in older mmos related to pvp and alliances. It`s a fine balance line to be a successful game - the reason we started to argue is that you protect CF and enjoy the game and that is all good.

I just stated fact that the game industry will move on no matter how successful Artcraft will be when they launch Crowfall - it`s always a new mmo with a huge budget - it was not directly a hit towards CF. It is just how it is.  

 

As I said already, I was responding to what you ACTUALLY said, not what you meant or what was your unstated point or what you added later to make those refuted items seem more thought out.  Im not sure what "protect CF" means, but if you're saying I'm a white knight, then you'd be correct, on opposite day.

 

Now you're saying your whole point is "an mmo is complicated".....

....

..

Could have just lead with that.

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If they make the power curve any more shallow than it already is, you risk eliminating the harvester/crafter role altogether, which is exactly what the people who suggest it want to do. This would also privilege guilds and communities that have large rosters, but don't have the time or drive to invest in gearing up their characters. A large 100+ man guild could jump into the game, gear out their roster very quickly, and roll over guilds with fewer people but more cohesion. 

When you eliminate or drastically reduce (shallow out) a power curve which is already shallow to begin with (the difference between blues and legendaries isn't that great) you also drastically reduce the potential of smaller, more organized guilds to compete. 

This isn't to say that certain mob drops and activities shouldn't have their reward tables adjusted or increased, it's just that the overall push for a "more shallow power curve" would only really promote low-skill, poorly organized zergs. If all players have similar power levels, regardless of effort or organization, then it pays to cram as many of them as possible together under the same tag.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

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26 minutes ago, Andius said:

@Allinavi - If you read the topic you can see I was addressing concerns raised by other people and lack of skill in the game. And I was very sure to say that gear gap is much smaller here than any other game. However we did get to see gear gap become a thing in the Trial of Valkyn. It was partially driven by issues like boards but the fact is if someone is in legendaries and someone else is in blues the person in oranges has a notable advantage. The person in blues is more competitive than someone in mid tier gear in any other PvP MMO I've seen but gear gap exists if the gear disparity is there, and there is no reason to assume that durability will always stay the way it is right now unless they adjust other factors like resource cost.

I'm not really sure what your point was with "I'd also refute the claim skill doesn't matter." Are you assuming the reader isn't able to read the first part of that sentence or are you attempting to make the claim skill doesn't matter?

Skill matters, and it matters more than your mythical "META". The problem with META as defined by Balance, is that it's defined by balance and it ignores some of the breakthroughs made by the better build creators on Order. When you guys are criticizing us for running bomb druids on stream but Jah is a hamster cleric clearly our "META" is not the same (But we do appreciate the free rings). And sure many people are running completely out in left field builds that aren't as valuable as if they were running Order meta, but Order doesn't force people to play one thing or another. Others of us are running builds that aren't part of our meta because we've discussed them with other major players in Order and are testing them to see if they SHOULD be meta. Because you can't really fully understand a build until you've used it quite a bit.

I'd rather have people with non-meta builds that know and enjoy their builds than people who rigorously conform to the unimaginative Balance meta.

The difference between blues and purples is negligible. 

I don't think you have a very good understanding of what "balance" considers "Meta". HoA concerns itself with approving certain classes for general play, approving certain classes/roles conditionally and avoiding certain classes and roles because they add nothing to the group/raid's strategy. Winterblades have different ideas about how to do the same thing and I have no idea what Clams or Infernal's ideas are on the subject because we don't talk to them about group comp.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, soulein said:

If they make the power curve any more shallow than it already is, you risk eliminating the harvester/crafter role altogether, which is exactly what the people who suggest it want to do. This would also privilege guilds and communities that have large rosters, but don't have the time or drive to invest in gearing up their characters. A large 100+ man guild could jump into the game, gear out their roster very quickly, and roll over guilds with fewer people but more cohesion.

 

6 minutes ago, soulein said:

The difference between blues and purples is negligible. 


Does not compute. Maybe you misread the post you're actually responding to where I said "The fact is if someone is in legendaries and someone else is in blues the person in oranges has a notable advantage." You guys have a horrible habit of misquoting everything I say and assuming the reader can't read.

But if the difference between blues and oranges is not notable as I claimed, then your entire first quote would seem to be redundant. Why does it matter how fast someone can gear if gear has a negligible effect?

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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39 minutes ago, Andius said:

Jah is a hamster cleric clearly our "META" is not the same (But we do appreciate the free rings).

Your dishonesty is showing again. I've lost one ring to that bug, to someone else in your faction, and you want to puff out your chest and pretend you've been harvesting rings?


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Power curve is fine imo, the problem is the effort and time it takes to get to the top of that curve. Obviously the gathering/crafting grind is over the top(especially with current gear degradation). However, the real problem is the passive training and how long it takes to get your crafter(s) up to par to take full advantage of blues.

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Posted (edited)

Notice I said "we" and not "I". Your dishonesty is showing again when you try to refute the claim that we got rings from you by countering I never personally got one. My bad if we only got 1. I don't follow your career that closely, I just know your build is bugged and drops rings in battle.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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