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Andius

Poll on how much you enjoy rare loot drops

Super Rare Drops (Such as goggles or specific minors) are a fun game mechanic.  

60 members have voted

  1. 1. How strongly do you agree with the above statement?

    • Strongly Agree
      11
    • Agree
      8
    • Somewhat Agree
      11
    • Somewhat Disagree
      4
    • Disagree
      5
    • Strongly Disagree
      21


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Posted (edited)

In keeping with what was suggested in my Business Research methods class, I have left out the ability to pick neutral! You must take a stance. Also in keeping with the suggestions of that class, I've chosen a poll questions that should give clear actionable information to the Crowfall development team. If people agree, keep these mechanics in! If everyone disagrees, maybe you need to reconsider where you are taking the RNG in this game.

Edited by Andius
(title was cut off but the full question is in the poll anyway)

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Posted (edited)

I personally feel like it is a good mechanic because it funnels people to Specific places to gather those super rare items and those area's can be contested and held.

Edited by Tyrannicall

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This is not a pve looter game. I don't mind killing mobs for drops, some of the best pvp I ever had were in PVE-PVP hybrid zones (like sewers on ESO). But the drop chance of these components should be 100% or 50% worst case scenario. People will still need to go to these war tribes to farm the disc and vessel components, the one-use recipes, gold and whatever else they come up with. There's no need to gate your character's progression behind an RNG grind on top of that. 


 

 

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Posted (edited)

Right. I'm not against PVE that creates PVP. I'm against doing it via extreme RNG.

For instance gathering dust doesn't bother me. Dust drops are very consistent and largely predictable within a certain extent. If you need 1000 ethereal dust for a project you can say "That should take me roughly _ hours" and be correct within a fairly small margin of error if you based that figure on good data such as your average dust per hour in previous sessions of gathering dust with via same skills/methods with the same bonuses.

If you say it should take me "_ hours to get the sturdy minor" you have no real expectation that's a correct statement. The chance of your estimation being off by hours is probably greater than it being on target no matter what predictors you use to achieve that "_ hours" estimation. Because there is no predicting extreme RNG.

If you want to add PVE grind. Fine, make it a predictable factor. If you're hiding it behind RNG, not only do I think that's a less fun mechanic. It makes me believe your motivation in doing so is a desire to hide the actual grind times.

At least in ArcheAge when I started calculating out average grind times for certain gear pieces based on probability, those numbers were astronomical. And they were hiding it behind RNG because they were counting on people not digging up those astronomical grind times or preserving through a "well I might just win the lottery" attitude. 

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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13 minutes ago, Andius said:

Right. I'm not against PVE that creates PVP. I'm against doing it via extreme RNG.

For instance gathering dust doesn't bother me. Dust drops are very consistent and largely predictable within a certain extent. If you need 1000 ethereal dust for a project you can say "That should take me roughly _ hours" and be correct within a fairly small margin of error if you based that figure on good data such as your average dust per hour in previous sessions of gathering dust with via same skills/methods with the same bonuses.

If you say it should take me "_ hours to get the sturdy minor" you have no real expectation that's a correct statement. The chance of your estimation being off by hours is probably greater than it being on target no matter what predictors you use to achieve that "_ hours" estimation. Because there is no predicting extreme RNG.

If you want to add PVE grind. Fine, make it a predictable factor. If you're hiding it behind RNG, not only do I think that's a less fun mechanic. It makes me believe your motivation in doing so is a desire to hide the actual grind times.

At least in ArcheAge when I started calculating out average grind times for certain gear pieces based on probability, those numbers were astronomical. And they were hiding it behind RNG because they were counting on people not digging up those astronomical grind times or preserving through a "well I might just win the lottery" attitude. 

I personally loved your minor disc idea of making it a general drop and then choosing which discipline you would like. Still keeps the drop rate slim enough but at the same time lets you predict how long it should be before you can get that item.

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Hi! I'm going to be skewing your results because I just chose a poll value at random so I could see the results. Sorry about throwing off your poll position! 

Bookmarking this thread though. Seems like this is an ongoing conversation that's a pretty big topic lately and maybe we can use some of the feedback and ideas that come from these threads in the future.  

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Rare is fine. Random and rare I don’t like. Rare is also a relative term  

Make it so certain mobs drop certain things. Give reasonable chances on each of those Rare items. For instance, say Urgu drop goggles and 14 of the minors. Give each a % drop chance based on mob spawn/difficulty (ie a raid boss has higher chance than a boss).  This lets players know that what they seek will drop from “blank” mob, and it removes some of the random grindy feel. 

Core elements to the game, like goggles, should not be so rare that someone can farm for a month and not see it. 

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I only chose "somewhat disagree" based on what I assume to be true when everything is finally balanced, specifically concerning Disciplines. I hope and assume that disciplines will be balanced in their usefulness, we have some that are extremely useful to anyone and everyone, and we have some that are so niche that no one uses them (to elaborate, the occurrences in which the niche provides a bonus are too rare, or the bonuses given in those said occurrences are not worth the downside of a filled disc slot). 

I think this aspect is adding to the "un-fun-ness" of many of the minors being locked behind being rare drops. Combine it with class balance being, uhh, non-present on the base level of some vessels, and well... Yep. 

Give us balance so we don't feel like you've yanked our crutches out from under us and are laughing while we crawl through the wartribe camps. 

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Posted (edited)

No loot table should include items below 10% probability IMO.  If you want us to kill 500 of a certain enemy before we get what we're looking for, that's fine.  However, make the item we're looking for require 50 mats that have a 10% drop rate, instead of being 1 thing that has a 0.2% drop rate.  At least in the former case there is a sense of meaningful progress.

Edited by Tiberius_Invictus

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1 hour ago, Ble said:

It's the "instant gratification" generation, theres no poll necessary.

What's the opposite of "instant gratification?" "Drag yourself through it so you might maybe eventually get something worthwhile?"

If I could show up to work for 5 min and get paid for a 40+ hour week I would. I like what I do, but I'd rather be doing other things.

However, I don't read the cliff notes for a several hundred page fantasy novel. I don't skip to the end of a good movie. I don't take a helicopter to the end of trail I'm hiking.

If a video game is entertaining all the time, as it should be, I'm find doing whatever tasks and mundane things that might not be my absolute favorite.

When my hobby and fun outlet becomes another job and chore to slog through so I might get some shiny reward or excitement once in a while, there is a problem.

Obviously some people enjoy mindless grinding and RNG, but I don't believe those that don't are being unreasonable.

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1 hour ago, Ble said:

It's the "instant gratification" generation, theres no poll necessary.

the average age for this game is not gen z, im pretty sure the only demographic lower then gen z on that poll was the 65+, its you boomers that make up the majority of the game


hoayaga2.jpg

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For disciplines i would like to see a way to break down the disciplines that drop then reforge them back to anyone you like, this way you know you will eventually get a disc u need it might just take 50 ones you dont want first for example.
Thing i have problem with is endlessly grinding for hours and hours and hours and getting literally everything else but the one your actualy wanting.

 


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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51 minutes ago, Staff said:

the average age for this game is not gen z, im pretty sure the only demographic lower then gen z on that poll was the 65+, its you boomers that make up the majority of the game

That won't stop people from coming to remind us that back in their day they had to slay 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, boars just to get their first rusty dagger. Uphill through a blizzard in 500 degrees fahrenheit (God only knows what foul element that snow was made of) and they liked it just fine that way.


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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I would like it as long as the drops are more simple to obtain. Why do we have to be in big huge groups to get basic stuff we need? Save our peek group time for PvP allow us to PvE in our off time.

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I definitely think the vast majority of things should be fairly deterministic to acquire. As someone said earlier you should be able to target a resource or item and reasonably estimate how much time it would take to get.

I do think the game needs a few uber rare drops that will be exciting and liven up the economy. Maybe a super duper pair of goggles that's just a bit better than the normal ones but very rare. Something that's exciting but not mandatory. 

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Think it may be worth it to make loot tables public, so that people know what they may be able to get out of things. I don't necessarily think the current drop rates are bad, but they're not great either, especially with the new implementations of crafting your own Runes.

It would be cool if they added an expect/attribute to armor and weapons to increase rare loot drop rates like in D3 or something along those lines. Thoughts?

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