Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Andius

Poll on how much you enjoy rare loot drops

Super Rare Drops (Such as goggles or specific minors) are a fun game mechanic.  

60 members have voted

  1. 1. How strongly do you agree with the above statement?

    • Strongly Agree
      11
    • Agree
      8
    • Somewhat Agree
      11
    • Somewhat Disagree
      4
    • Disagree
      5
    • Strongly Disagree
      21


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, ZYBAK said:

I definitely think the vast majority of things should be fairly deterministic to acquire. As someone said earlier you should be able to target a resource or item and reasonably estimate how much time it would take to get.

I do think the game needs a few uber rare drops that will be exciting and liven up the economy. Maybe a super duper pair of goggles that's just a bit better than the normal ones but very rare. Something that's exciting but not mandatory. 

Yeah if there is going to be super RNG drops, the ones that I'm generally pretty ok with are ones that aren't so mandatory that I feel the need to farm for them in particular, and are instead a cool perk when I find them. The moment I feel like I need to go out and farm for a particular item to be competitive, and it's gated behind a minuscule chance to drop, it switched from "oh neat" to "game ruining".


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agreed with the statement. Free gear is never fun in a game, there are plenty out there where you can pick a build, loadout, and kill. This is not one of them. 

I think most of the pop hasn't been through a reset entirely, unless you've started a new account, but systems have always been in place to catch you up to where most people are currently at. Such as having a guild craft for you and groups for obtaining higher rank materials.

When this lands we'll have basically a staircase type system, where your training will coincide with what you are using to craft. Right off the bat, anyone who's resourceful will stash anything beyond a white rarity item and save it for the day when crafting passives have made it worth the time to farm it. This will carry all the way though and constantly be evolving. As you will have to reroll vessels for crafters as you reach the training to max out pips when crafting.

This is what will seperate the the casual from hardcore base. It's exactly like honing a knife, if you make more passes at it you will refine to a sharper edge. Taking that time to build all the way up would be pretty meh, if you didnt have some ultra-rare additive to further exceed or work for at true end-game. It's not like your going to take those rare drops and start pumping out whites with Treated Steel, or green weapons with your Hunger Shards. it wouldn't be worth it. At endgame it is, and well worth the hunt to get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I don't have a problem with the ultra rare drops. I have a problem there's not a fallback system to mitigate the streakiness of RNG.

What if we granted people favor for the god of their choice for partcipating in objectives, and allowed them to cash in that favor at a high cost for belt slot items?

Ideally these rates/costs in this system would still make it on average less efficient to try and pvp your way to belt slots than farming and tracking boss respawns and rolling the dice, but it would provide an answer to "what happens if the super low drop rate means we just don't get the drop because it is random" as well as provide some much needed core incentives for PvP beyond "get points" when you don't actually need the resources around objectives. Now you're fighting to get a little closer to a valuable item you can either sell or provide to your guild's crafters to keep you in good gear.

This approach would also help to self balance the increased use of these items when equipping larger PvP forces that need more frequent repairs without cutting harvesters, crafters, and mob farmers out of the loop. Mob farmers are still on average more efficient at getting these items, and you still need someone to harvest all the materials.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still have not gotten  goggles to drop when I have done NOTHING but farm bosses every evening for two campaigns.

@vkromas Do know how frustrating it is to log on only to pve for over two weeks and not make any progress?

as a necromancer, I have jumped through all the hoops, harvested all the body parts and extra pieces - have my ambrosia ready ( which is a giant pain to make) Maxed my skill training, made plus necromancy rings and armour and still can’t make high quality vessels ...been stuck like this since you added goggles...

 


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I agree.

Rare drops are good, with the caveat that we need to be able to easily sell the things we don't want, or have an abundance of, and buy the things we do want. When we're all swimming in our own little pools, rare drops suck. Rare drops suck less for guilds, and the larger the guild the less they suck, but then we're back to inventory management.

Edited by VaMei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 8:10 PM, Ble said:

It's the "instant gratification" generation, theres no poll necessary.

Totally do not agree.  Many of us have been playing MMO's for years, decades even.  I don't mind grinding if it's within reason and the reward is worth it.

Grinding for days for an item that then begets more grinding is frankly just a waste of everyone's time.  Crafters have enough to do as it is. The last couple of patches just put more and more work on their backs to the point where they simply don't want to login anymore because the game has now become a job.  They're burnt out.  And when crafters leave, then the rest don't want to log in because they can't get the gear they need to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, binny45 said:

Totally do not agree.  Many of us have been playing MMO's for years, decades even.  I don't mind grinding if it's within reason and the reward is worth it.

Grinding for days for an item that then begets more grinding is frankly just a waste of everyone's time.  Crafters have enough to do as it is. The last couple of patches just put more and more work on their backs to the point where they simply don't want to login anymore because the game has now become a job.  They're burnt out.  And when crafters leave, then the rest don't want to log in because they can't get the gear they need to play.

I can agree with your statement.  As long as the expectation is not that everything great is immediately available, then yeah, less grind is good.

I just don't think there should be a grind requirement to getting to a "competitive state".  To me, a competitive state is blue vessel (no additives), blue weapon (runic) and blue gear/jewelry, two majors of choice and 3 minors of choice.  The only "grind" portion of getting there is the leveling aspect and major/minors.  I hate that leveling is so grindy.  I also think that set loot tables would help people target specific majors/minors but I do not agree with set spawn timers.  (example: Make it a minimum of 1 hour or so and then let the mob randomly spawn within the next 2 hours.  This keeps people from timing spawn, keeps people checking, attracts people to specific locations such as where demons pact will drop and creates PvP).  I don't agree with making the good ones (demons pact) super rare.  Just balance the good ones if thats necessary.  Runic weapon books are super easy to get, as is blue ore/leather and stone.

For me, make leveling and major/minor easier to get.  Keep blues easy to get/make.

All the addative "extras" maybe less rare than they are but still fairly rare.

What I cannot get behind is when people pretend like having a legendary hunger shard over a blue hunger shard in their purple weapon which they are not even full chaos ember rerolling is necessary.  Same goes for vessel additives.

Edited by Ble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ble said:

I can agree with your statement.  As long as the expectation is not that everything great is immediately available, then yeah, less grind is good.

I just don't think there should be a grind requirement to getting to a "competitive state".  To me, a competitive state is blue vessel (no additives), blue weapon (runic) and blue gear/jewelry, two majors of choice and 3 minors of choice.  The only "grind" portion of getting there is the leveling aspect and major/minors.  I hate that leveling is so grindy.  I also think that set loot tables would help people target specific majors/minors but I do not agree with set spawn timers.  (example: Make it a minimum of 1 hour or so and then let the mob randomly spawn within the next 2 hours.  This keeps people from timing spawn, keeps people checking, attracts people to specific locations such as where demons pact will drop and creates PvP).  I don't agree with making the good ones (demons pact) super rare.  Just balance the good ones if thats necessary.  Runic weapon books are super easy to get, as is blue ore/leather and stone. 

For me, make leveling and major/minor easier to get.  Keep blues easy to get/make.

All the addative "extras" maybe less rare than they are but still fairly rare.

What I cannot get behind is when people pretend like having a legendary hunger shard over a blue hunger shard in their purple weapon which they are not even full chaos ember rerolling is necessary.  Same goes for vessel additives. 

If it is trivial to get to a "competitive state" the economy is broken.

If I can "compete" in the grind equivalent of whites because the power curve is so flat I stand a chance against someone decked out in legendaries, the only market for anything of value is entirely optional. Doubly so at an organizational level. I might be able to justify building one set of purple gear at the moment, but I can't justify building purple gear for an entire guild.

If its trivial to get my guild to a "competitive state" what's my draw for moving up to better campaign bands with better resources?

What's my incentive for farming for rare loot?

Why wouldn't I just sell all those garbage high level items to buy more easily farmed mats?

 

A functioning economy requires either grind or scarcity via combat. Time is the only resource of any value to players. Whether that's time spent grinding or time spent keeping your enemies from capturing a mine, that time is what gives it its value. Not the color of the mats. You don't pay a dude some gold or trade embers or whatever for an item because its shiny. You pay for that item because you're exchanging either your own time or the time of some poor sap you robbed for the time spent constructing it.

Its a basic economic concept that items need to either have convenience value or material value. In MMOs, there is no such thing as material value, as all players are generally possessed with the opportunity to produce whatever they like. Material value doesn't exist because scarcity doesn't exist. There are effectively infinite supplies of all materials and thus all items made from them.

All MMO transactions are based upon convenience value. I trade you so that I don't have to grind/farm/passive train/roll dice myself.

The more you erode that time component, the more the potential value of anything in that economy suffers, as does the long term desire to earn and achieve those items. This really is an issue of "pick one"

Either have a robus economy with exciting items and associated grind of some type, or have significantly less grind and a poorly made socksty economy where nobody cares about having good items and everyone quits in three months.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The increase you get from going above blue is not equivelant to increase in amount of time to gain said items, just as it should be.  If a higher degree of competitiveness was gained through rarity, we'd have a problem.

This is what people who say "gear is why I lost" think... and its simply not true in this game.  The first thing these types will do is compare white vessel white gear to people playing in blues, and while it is true that white is far below blue, that same gap doesn't reoccur in >blue gear.  And furthermore, there's no excuse for PvPing in white gear/vessel more than a week or two after wipe.  Those that are doing this are either new, returning or horrible - either way, they'll gear up or stay bad, can't balance around either of those.

Purple really isn't that hard to achieve and its nearly the same as blue.  Legendary is vanity stuff and a spattering of purples and blues usually maxes people out in their stats anyway. The best use of legendary is via jewelry and thats very easy to make/farm for.

The economy is, indeed, poorly made socks but I'm able to work around that pretty easily with very limited playtime... what I have is a guild and we work together to make sure that our limited play times have overlapping efficiencies, everyone wins.

Edited by Ble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ble said:

The increase you get from going above blue is not equivelant to increase in amount of time to gain said items, just as it should be.  If a higher degree of competitiveness was gained through rarity, we'd have a problem.

This is what people who say "gear is why I lost" think... and its simply not true in this game.  The first thing these types will do is compare white vessel white gear to people playing in blues, and while it is true that white is far below blue, that same gap doesn't reoccur in >blue gear.  And furthermore, there's no excuse for PvPing in white gear/vessel more than a week or two after wipe.  Those that are doing this are either new, returning or horrible - either way, they'll gear up or stay bad, can't balance around either of those.

Purple really isn't that hard to achieve and its nearly the same as blue.  Legendary is vanity stuff and a spattering of purples and blues usually maxes people out in their stats anyway. The best use of legendary is via jewelry and thats very easy to make/farm for.

The economy is, indeed, poorly made socks but I'm able to work around that pretty easily with very limited playtime... what I have is a guild and we work together to make sure that our limited play times have overlapping efficiencies, everyone wins.

I agree with a good bit of this which is in bold above.  

I came to the same conclusion that once we reach end game levels of training that you basically need to be in "blue" gear to be competitive in PVP. 

I highlighted a few other things in red above. While it's relatively easy to get geared up in blues as a veteran player in an established guild it's a much more daunting task without that guild structure or knowledge. Maybe this isn't an issue once we have a larger population of guilds/players, better economy, multiple campaign bands to separate different tiers of players, etc. but I think it's an issue in the current testing environment. 

I've experienced both sides of this where our group had a lot of people playing and had all of the harvesting/crafting logistics covered and I've also played where I'm pretty much solo and even with a lot of game knowledge, multiple accounts, etc. I feel like it's more trouble than it's worth trying to gear up to a competitive level on my own. 

Ultimately it will be up to ACE to decide if they want this to be a game that you need a guild/group to experience or if they want it to be more casual/solo friendly. Come launch I'll have a guild to play with so it won't effect me but I do wonder if it will effect player retention in the long run. I don't want another game that devolves into only a couple hundred hardcore PVPers playing on a single server as I've already done that with both Shadowbane and Darkfall. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/2/2019 at 10:30 AM, PaleOne said:

I still have not gotten  goggles to drop when I have done NOTHING but farm bosses every evening for two campaigns.

@vkromas Do know how frustrating it is to log on only to pve for over two weeks and not make any progress?

as a necromancer, I have jumped through all the hoops, harvested all the body parts and extra pieces - have my ambrosia ready ( which is a giant pain to make) Maxed my skill training, made plus necromancy rings and armour and still can’t make high quality vessels ...been stuck like this since you added goggles...

 

@jtoddcoleman

glad to see you hanging out here!

the community really needs some updates on what you guys plan to do to fix these issues—

You have some dials to turn to get the population back!


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ble said:

I just don't think there should be a grind requirement to getting to a "competitive state".  

I agree, but I am really focused upon the gating of basic class skills behind a level grind. All the grind for the sake of grind in place of content and now rng gating added since 5.7 surely could be lumped in but I find this the most egregious. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because of the game's heavy focus on PvP, nothing that is a rare drop should be extremely powerful. But rare drops make PvE worthwhile. There should be rare skins, pets, etc that are simply copies of what's available else where. Want to have an elk skin that makes you look like a zombie? Well that should be a rare drop from some zombie elk boss. It should just be a skin though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/4/2019 at 3:48 PM, Ble said:

The increase you get from going above blue is not equivelant to increase in amount of time to gain said items, just as it should be.  If a higher degree of competitiveness was gained through rarity, we'd have a problem.

This is what people who say "gear is why I lost" think... and its simply not true in this game.  The first thing these types will do is compare white vessel white gear to people playing in blues, and while it is true that white is far below blue, that same gap doesn't reoccur in >blue gear.  And furthermore, there's no excuse for PvPing in white gear/vessel more than a week or two after wipe.  Those that are doing this are either new, returning or horrible - either way, they'll gear up or stay bad, can't balance around either of those.

Purple really isn't that hard to achieve and its nearly the same as blue.  Legendary is vanity stuff and a spattering of purples and blues usually maxes people out in their stats anyway. The best use of legendary is via jewelry and thats very easy to make/farm for. 

The economy is, indeed, poorly made socks but I'm able to work around that pretty easily with very limited playtime... what I have is a guild and we work together to make sure that our limited play times have overlapping efficiencies, everyone wins.

I largely agree with this, so I'm confused at this in comparison with your other statement.

Especially with refineries on the way I feel like the effort required to equip people with baseline competitive gear (blue) is good, and that the rarity levels for other tiers is also good for what they pay out with the exception of green. I feel like there should be a lot less white and a lot more green in the game as currently the difference between like r2 stuff and r6 stuff is barely noticeable, and hitting r10 resources and getting more blues than greens while still getting a massive stack of whites feels weird.

Seems to me if you're set up and skilled for harvesting enough that r9/r10 materials are your bread and butter your surplus shouldn't be the thing less skilled players already have (whites) but rather something that's an upgrade for them even though its not useful to you. That would be green mats.

I was encouraged to hear on stream today that Todd talked about how he felt the overall game was too painful, so hopefully the edge cases for stuff like interdependence, durability decay, and RNG iron out the rest, but as far as the actual harvesting rates for what most people consider "average" gear I think it feels pretty good, assuming you have access to R10 stuff.

My concern is that the other things surrounding it create too much churn, which kinda hamstrings meaningful surplus. Perhaps that's intentional, to encourage career harvesters and allow them to actual have a market where they wouldn't if people were basically just flooding the market with just leftovers.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 1:16 PM, Andius said:

At least in ArcheAge when I started calculating out average grind times for certain gear pieces based on probability, those numbers were astronomical. And they were hiding it behind RNG because they were counting on people not digging up those astronomical grind times or preserving through a "well I might just win the lottery" attitude. 

ArcheAge has a P2W business model so that's not even comparable to Crowfall's design. In ArcheAge, gear becomes exponentially more difficult to get at each tier level because that ensures that only the whales willing to spend in the cash shop (for things like regrade charms) have the top end gear.

---

In Crowfall the drop rates are a balance issue. How "rare" should a loot drop like goggles be? How much time on average should it take to get them?  You did not quantify "rare" in your poll with any drop percentages or time frames, so I couldn't choose.

I do think PvE activities should be in the game, and loot drops are a good way for combat-focused players to participate in the economy. It's fun to fight over hotspots with valuable loot, but I don't want to spend all of my playtime farming randomly for goggles (or mining ore nodes😛). We need to get to the right balance.


tiPrpwh.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...