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binny45

What would it take to get you playing again?

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Howdy folks

Going to try and stay away from my normal rants.

Given the fact that many of the people I normally play with refuse to play the game in its current state, I was curious what would need to happen to get testers back to the table?

It was only several weeks ago we had people queuing to get into zones to play.  Now the place is a wasteland.

Many of my guildies are off playing other games, waiting for change.

What do you think that change should be?

Obviously we don't want hand outs or to make the game easy, but in it's current state it is simply a frustrating mess.

Frankly, I'd just be happy being able to level at a decent pace without having to worry about my gear falling apart after 24 hours of gameplay.

I mean, I get it, PVP is part of the game and frankly it makes it exciting. What isn't exciting is that every time you die, the hit on your gear is bloody crazy!

Dying is cool, dying naked after several deaths is not.

Come on, share your thoughts!

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Posted (edited)

Being able to place your own forts and keeps, a sandbox world where you can build your cities; no end of a campaign where the seasons just cycle. No spirit banks until the end of the campaign (if doing campaigns) More trade caravaning and reliance on road travel.

Edited by ilogos

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4 hours ago, binny45 said:

Given the fact that many of the people I normally play with refuse to play the game in its current state, I was curious what would need to happen to get testers back to the table? 

 

See I think part of the problem is in that statement "get Testers back"

They need to stop thinking of us as testers and think of us as players. If they had a part of the game that was fun, and they have added things to make it not fun, well that should be a huge red flag.  The excuse is "well the game is in alpha" I don't get this excuse, F that you should be testing at this point what is fun but despite the complaining of all the "players" of they keep adding these elements even as people are fleeing the game. Oh ya and um the grind, they need to lessen the grind so we can get to playing the game, most importantly roll back the gold nerf and the gold sacrifice nerf.

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3 hours ago, ilogos said:

Being able to place your own forts and keeps, a sandbox world where you can build your cities; no end of a campaign where the seasons just cycle. No spirit banks until the end of the campaign. More trade caravaning and reliance on road travel.

god dam this sounds cool i mean it wouldn't be necessary for me but it would be cool.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, bignick22000 said:

god dam this sounds cool i mean it wouldn't be necessary for me but it would be cool.

I kind of keep hinting at the same thing over and over again in the posts I occasionally make. I wasn't an early backer so I don't know of any of the promises this game has made, but I was I was looking for a true Shadowbane successor. You could plant a tree and build a town around it, and people could come in and destroy that tree and everything built around it. Moreover, there wasn't any end to the "campaign"; it was a game you could keep playing and log in, and continue to make small but significant changes to the world and your character. I haven't felt that here. It just seems to be more of a 1v1v1 faction battle that became very repetitive for me. 

My dream, (and I understand if it doesnt become this or never wanted to become this), is a game where you could play a sandbox and lay out these structures, create npcs, and find strategic resources and develop a trade economy. Even the individual could have a part in the largest player-made cities with renting out parcel locations, etc. Who knows, maybe it can become this? *shrug*

Edit: And I do think an early stage of this could be made available by setting a campaign as a "persistent" campaign and rotating the seasons. CrowFall can still have its EKs and short campaigns, but the persistent campaign is what I would be returning for.

Edited by ilogos

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, bignick22000 said:

most importantly roll back the gold nerf and the gold sacrifice nerf.

Why, it takes a couple days to level a decent vessel, gold isn't needed.

Vers 9.2 durability loss on death changed from 30 to 10

Way too much the sky is falling. When things suck they most of the time fix it, just not overnight. 

Edited by Leftnut

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8 hours ago, ilogos said:

Being able to place your own forts and keeps, a sandbox world where you can build your cities; no end of a campaign where the seasons just cycle. No spirit banks until the end of the campaign. More trade caravaning and reliance on road travel.

You will be able to build your own forts and keeps in the Dregs. Spirit Banks are changing in the near future. The embargo was always intended to be something that you get at the end of the campaign as a reward based on how you did in the campaign.

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6 hours ago, bignick22000 said:

most importantly roll back the gold nerf and the gold sacrifice nerf

This. 

3 hours ago, Leftnut said:

Why, it takes a couple days to level a decent vessel, gold isn't needed.

Because I value my time too much to spend "only" a couple of days hitting the same uninteresting mobs with the same couple of uninspired abilities over and over and over and over and over (x10^9) again. 

Where's the problem with having an alternative to that? 

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Gold is much easier to get in 5.9 than it was in 5.8.6. War tribe elites drop 50-120 gold each. Captains can drop 200-350 each.

Lore items drop a lot more often from war tribes as well. Elites drop 1, captains drop 4 (and they are all green or better). A group boss (chief) can drop 10 epic lore items, which when combined gives you 4300 xp.

The problem with the lore items is that they take up a lot of space, especially once you combine them. It isn't practical to save them for too long.

My suggestion would be to create a new type of currency that can only be used for leveling. On the test server, they have a leveling dust that can be used only for sacrifice. Something similar to that. XP amounts for sacrifice would need to be normalized so that they aren't dependent on level, otherwise people would exchange items for this currency using a level 1 character to maximize the return.

When sacrificing, we'd have the option to convert the item to XP right away, or turn it into this currency. Or maybe you have to do the sacrifice on a level 30 character to get the currency. The currency could be much more easily stored and traded. Make leveling part of the economy again.

This currency will be something that players will actually care about exporting from the campaigns. Instead of exporting a bunch of items, they can sacrifice stuff and turn it into future XP. The export rules would still dictate how much you get to take with you, but this would provide veteran players a quick way to level a new character. It would give EKs more of a role in the game too, as they could become important hubs for selling vessels and XP currency.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, bignick22000 said:

most importantly roll back the gold nerf and the gold sacrifice nerf.

 

5 hours ago, Leftnut said:

Why, it takes a couple days to level a decent vessel, gold isn't needed.

Gold needs to be worth something to end game players if it's going to be be the currency of the vendor economy. End game players need to want gold badly enough that they'll trade that perfectly rolled legendary runic weapon of ultimate power to a potential rival in order to get their hands on a fat pile of gold. That value is not there today. Not that restoring gold sacrifice would create that value on it's own, but it's something.

In a healthy economy where gold had value, we would be selling high end sacrifice items to each other for better returns than we get from throwing gold in the fire; but if there's enough gold in circulation that players want to throw it in a fire, let them throw it in the fire to get rid of it.

Edit:

Having a healthy economy solves many of the grind problems as well. Don't want to beat on trees and rocks to get resources? Don't have the skills to craft the gear you want? Don't want to farm for disciplines? Get gold and buy stuff.

Gold sources should be ground level so that solo players with moderate gear can get about the same gold per hour farming solo content as high end players in groups chaining bosses. High end content should be where the stuff we want to buy comes from. Organized players will have access to stuff, but maybe not the right stuff, so they sell what they get and buy what they want.

The question is, how to create that value for gold?

Edited by VaMei

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Class balance. I got my brother on yesterday, he promptly got a Ranger to level 15 with my help and concluded: "yeah, it runs smoother and feels better, but until they fix bow damage and all the underpowered skills I'm not playing for a while". I don't blame him. I leveled a Cleric, eventually picking the bottom route (Arbiter?), intentionally shirking the more popular Crusader and it was a grueling experience with the way they have mob strength right now. WIth no access to Field Surgeon at the moment or any discs to increase my support power, my healing feels slightly better than passive life regen and damage is equally lackluster. 

Passive trees and choices therein need to be more impactful as opposed to rolling the dice, picking a setup that isn't completely useless due to junky application or stat balance. Also, it's going to be really fun to see the outcry from the masses once talent options for the disciplines are introduced and people still can't manage to find the disciplines they want. It would be much more bearable if the classes had a little balance from the beginning, base level.  

I've said it before, when do we get the privelege of having the treatment of being a real game? Are we going to wait until Frostweaver to unbalance everything further before we acknowledge the needs?

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13 hours ago, binny45 said:

Many of my guildies are off playing other games, waiting for change.

What do you think that change should be?

The only thing that is really needed is launch.

Anything else has to step back behind that goal. If that means that testers are not happy with the current state (surprise) and that those who want to play instead of testing decide to come back later, so be it.

Most complaints don't really matter. They are "maaah, i demand my fun ... and i ONLY have fun when i got this and that, so gimme that" complaints. I know those complaints well - if have them myself. But no game will ever be perfect for everybody, so the focus can't be to make everybody happy.

The focus needs to be to get the game done. If you are running a marathon you may hear your feet complaining, but you need to keep on running if you want to reach he goal, even if it hurts.


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17 minutes ago, Kraahk said:

The only thing that is really needed is launch.

Anything else has to step back behind that goal. If that means that testers are not happy with the current state (surprise) and that those who want to play instead of testing decide to come back later, so be it.

Most complaints don't really matter. They are "maaah, i demand my fun ... and i ONLY have fun when i got this and that, so gimme that" complaints. I know those complaints well - if have them myself. But no game will ever be perfect for everybody, so the focus can't be to make everybody happy.

The focus needs to be to get the game done. If you are running a marathon you may hear your feet complaining, but you need to keep on running if you want to reach he goal, even if it hurts.

If they launch the game going down the path they are currently taking, they might as well shut the servers down now.

The game is simply not fun anymore, testing or not.

The whole point of testing is to find what works and what doesn't.

I've seen this in several other games where the devs keep messing with the make up of a game, piss off the players, and then wonder why their game is shut down within six months to a year.

If I was testing this for free, I probably wouldn't care as much.  The fact that I've paid for two accounts means I can complain all I want. Pre-alpha or no, I want my damn money's worth and to get that, the devs need to start listening to all of the players, whether they be full time, part time, casual, hardcore, crafting focused or pvp focused.  They were in a good space and then they started screwing with the game.  Instead of listening to us then, they continued to make it worse.  I don't know what the vision is for this game, but right now it's driving folks away in droves.

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Posted (edited)

people were having fun and numbers were high when we could actually customize our vessels in the fashion we wanted to. Everyone hates the grind to customize not level. Having to pray to RNGeus to finish anything is one of the worst in any mmo I’ve played. And that’s what has driven players away. Come up with a better way to acquire discs that don’t rely on RNG!!!!

Make aquiring discs a crafting process that requires multiple crafts. Don’t lock it behind RNG. That doesn’t mean make a new tool with super low RNG drop rate either. 

Essentially the classes on their own (without discs) are boring, don’t make me do a bunch of boring activities to make a boring class somewhat interesting....maybe if I happen to get a useful disc. 

Edited by oneply
And no I’m not calling for crafting on the fly again.

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5 minutes ago, binny45 said:

If they launch the game going down the path they are currently taking, they might as well shut the servers down now.

The game is simply not fun anymore, testing or not.

The whole point of testing is to find what works and what doesn't.

I've seen this in several other games where the devs keep messing with the make up of a game, piss off the players, and then wonder why their game is shut down within six months to a year.

If I was testing this for free, I probably wouldn't care as much.  The fact that I've paid for two accounts means I can complain all I want. Pre-alpha or no, I want my damn money's worth and to get that, the devs need to start listening to all of the players, whether they be full time, part time, casual, hardcore, crafting focused or pvp focused.  They were in a good space and then they started screwing with the game.  Instead of listening to us then, they continued to make it worse.  I don't know what the vision is for this game, but right now it's driving folks away in droves.

I'm a fan of being a tough critic myself, but I don't think the issue is that they haven't been listening. I appreciate what you're saying, but I think you're spinning them in too negative of a light. 

I think the issue is that they're really kind of slow in churning out the changes for reasons I'm sure are very realistic. But if you know you're slow and taking your time on purpose, the best idea is always going to be to plan everything to a tee, and it doesn't show that they've done that recently. A lot of the things they've pushed in since wartribes are probably going to be great once the full systems are there to support the entire construct, but for now they're half-baked and half-finished. Implementing things this way is harebrained, and that's what bothers me the most.  

If you follow them and listen to all of the planned features they've had since 5.8, there were a lot of things "in the pipe" that we still don't have. But then there were features like wartribes that were completely unexpected and unpolished at push that they've ended up locking a lot of content behind, and I still can't help but feel like they implemented things too quickly. This combined with little-to-no followup on their recent changes is really what has everyone complaining more, an acknowledgement would go a long way. We have had lots of info on what system implementations we will be receiving soon (bank stuff, claimable res statues), but nothing spoken in relation to the currently dying pulse of the community. 

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I still play, but I’d probably play more if they implement a LOT of QoL features that’ve been piling up over the years. Most notably, experience-for-all-the-things, increased xp for tougher mobs, and points for harvesting 


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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6 minutes ago, Samulus said:

I'm a fan of being a tough critic myself, but I don't think the issue is that they haven't been listening. I appreciate what you're saying, but I think you're spinning them in too negative of a light. 

I think the issue is that they're really kind of slow in churning out the changes for reasons I'm sure are very realistic. But if you know you're slow and taking your time on purpose, the best idea is always going to be to plan everything to a tee, and it doesn't show that they've done that recently. A lot of the things they've pushed in since wartribes are probably going to be great once the full systems are there to support the entire construct, but for now they're half-baked and half-finished. Implementing things this way is harebrained, and that's what bothers me the most.  

If you follow them and listen to all of the planned features they've had since 5.8, there were a lot of things "in the pipe" that we still don't have. But then there were features like wartribes that were completely unexpected and unpolished at push that they've ended up locking a lot of content behind, and I still can't help but feel like they implemented things too quickly. This combined with little-to-no followup on their recent changes is really what has everyone complaining more, an acknowledgement would go a long way. We have had lots of info on what system implementations we will be receiving soon (bank stuff, claimable res statues), but nothing spoken in relation to the currently dying pulse of the community. 

Oh we've been following "the plan". The problem is is that the game is that much of a chore to play right now that people cannot even be bothered to log in.  I know it's testing, and I know that there are things coming down the pipe.  However, right now people would rather watch paint dry than play this.  There's only so much broken you can put up with before you tap out.  I still log in, see if there's anything on the go and nothing. I've yet to find a PUG as there is hardly anyone around!  I want to play and test, but just about everyone I know that used to enjoy testing this game would rather play literally anything else than log in.  So it stands to say, what can the devs do to at least make this game enjoyable enough so that people start logging in.

I do know that the current crafting trend (needing items to make better gear and those items are rare drops with durability) is a big, BIG turn off.  There's enough to do with crafting as is.  Our crafters were already burning out before these items were introduced.  Then having to camp for these items, only to do it again and again?  If they want realism, show me in reality where someone learns a specialized skill from something in their pocket, only to lose that skill when said item breaks?  It's another time sink.  They (the devs) think they are adding value when all they're doing is adding unnecessary grind.

Then there's the mobs. What in the hell were they thinking?  The mobs my character needs to level are unsoloable, period.  Normally I would get a group, but no one is logging on!  I can't get better gear because our crafters are not logging on.  I'm lucky enough to have a blue vessel, because our necromancers are not logging on.  And on the rare occasion that one of them does log on, they can't make the gear I need because they don't have these rare drops.

Look, I get needing maybe a special drop to be able to make legendary/runic gear.  Totally understand.  But all qualities? Really?!  And the added kick to the guts of the item having durability?  Just make it a specialized skill, just like all other MMO's.  Crafting in this game is a pain in the ass enough as it is.

I've yet to see a dev respond to any of these posts so who knows if anyone is listening.  I've certainly not received a single message regarding my concerns.  It's all one way conversations, them talking and us taking it on the chin.  At this stage of the game, the company should be more hands on, working with players in game to test their software.  Instead, all I hear is crickets.

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Posted (edited)

It would take a pretty dramatic turnabout on some design decisions to bring most of my guild back.  The vast majority of us have written Crowfall off and moved on completely.

However, here's a list off the top of my head of what I think it'd take to get us back:

  • Reduce the grinds to a level where a guild can focus primarily on PvP.
  • Replace the godawful RNG-gated discipline-finding system (it's terrible in 5.92 still) with a proper crafting system for them
  • Improve performance in large fights
  • Remove the target cap on area-effect damage to let us bust stacks of players.  The blob vs blob fights are custard terrible.
  • Reduce out-of-party area-effect healing and shift the healing focus to self-sustain and party-only / targeted heals (more stack busting).
  • Give better telegraphs so that we can get some player-skill based combat going with counterplays.
  • Improve the combat UI or give us hooks so we can write our own (WoW was so good at this)

 

Edited by Durenthal

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Posted (edited)

Honestly the game isn't fun atm and lacks interesting content. PvP and PvE should go hand in hand to create a good openworld mmo experience but neither PvP or PvE is fun currently.

 

My suggestions are:

- reduce grind to become relevant in PvP ( to much powercreep in crafting !!! )

- add depth in siegemechanics  (sieges are still in an underwhelming basic state for the devtime), i suggest non static siegeweapons such as battlerams, trebuchets, ladders, siegetowers to add much more depth to sieges.( could be griefed but i would risk it, can't be worth than current siege mechanics). Current sieges are boring and a clusterf***.

- adjust gameworldsize to low playerbase

- improve performence in larger PvP battles

- create an organic openworld pvp experience by encouraging players to roam more in the open world for fun/meaningful PvE content (current world feels boring, flat and dead) (Current openworld PvE content is very boring)

- improve NPC AI and NPC variations

- create worldbosses with good AI which are challenging to kill ( ca. 5-10 mins to give attack window for enemy players for pvp attacks) even for highgeared players( high skill requirement of movement, dodging, knowledge of patterns, instead of solofacetanking)

- add interesting PvE content in the openworld such as tresuares, caves, dungeons, hidden bosses, hidden events, events, mines, so that players are more likely to go into the openworld which will lead to more organic world-PVP  (Exploration !!!!!)

- UI improvements

- reduce/rework combat FX

- add water into the world ( i know u hate it but it does so much for game-immersion!!!)

- stop enlarging the craftingsystem any further, it is already complex enough for timelimited campaigns

- add faction caps to zones

- prevent inbalanced factionpopulation by adding campaignentering-queuesystem for balancing the different faction population in none-FFA campaings           ( most players tend to join the most populated faction, you need to prevent that with a queingsystem)

 

I think the game needs some of these features to become interesting for me again

Edited by Kreigon

One Ring to Rule them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to bring them all an in the darkness and bind them.

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