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binny45

What would it take to get you playing again?

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2 hours ago, oneply said:

Can a dev just delete the last 4 hours of posts? Talk about a worthless addition to a discussion with merit. But that’s what that gerbil lover does, deter any meaningful conversation to a point the thread needs to be locked. Smh.  This post should go out the window with them as well. 

This qualifies as one of the most idiotic self serving posts I have read in a long time. Winning is relative. I would not consider either of you winners. And deriving worth from pixels is pathetic. 

Being hostile in general does little to move a conversation forward. I get we all love to attempt to one up each other and some how win the internet, but does make these discussions pointless when devs come in and lock the thread. Ignoring people or just particular comments is sometimes the much more productive and powerful move. 

 

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Just now, APE said:

Being hostile in general does little to move a conversation forward. I get we all love to attempt to one up each other and some how win the internet, but does make these discussions pointless when devs come in and lock the thread. Ignoring people or just particular comments is sometimes the much more productive and powerful move. 

 

Unless your goal is to get the thread locked for whatever reason. 

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34 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

I fixed this for you. I am shocked you would omit the monarchy in this fashion.

-bends the knee- My lord, I am sorry if I have offended you and I apologize for my grave mistake.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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6 hours ago, Jah said:

Remind me, what was their promise?

No clue about the "constant" PVP or what that means to anyone, but here are a few things they did claim once upon a time:

Since the game does NOT use a standard advancement mechanic (kill monsters = gain experience = level-up) and instead uses passive training (skills increase over time) it poses the question, “Why fight monsters at all?”

Players control the universe, to shape as they see fit. 

Alpha testing for certain features of the core module will begin at the end of Summer, 2015. 

There is a limited micropayment shop, which can only be used to buy things that do NOT affect the balance of the game.

The shop only sells cosmetic (non-balance affecting) items, game time, and additional space

With each passing season, the World grows more deadly as the land is consumed by an unstoppable legion of undead -- The Hunger.

The Worlds are made of voxels (like Minecraft, only much less blocky) – which means the entire World is destructible.  We are harnessing VoxelFarm technology to generate an endless succession of unique and interesting Campaign Worlds for you to mine, shape, conquer and destroy.  

Each World is different, which means that the game of territorial conquest will be different in every Campaign. 

The beginning of each Campaign is like the first round of Civilization: players are dropped into a harsh environment, surrounded by Fog-of-War. The Worlds are filled with deadly monsters, haunted ruins, abandoned quarries... 

Craft weapons, scavenge armor, secure a stronghold, forge alliances and conquer the World.

Allies. Enemies. Empires. Betrayal. Risk. Conquest.

Since each Campaign World is unique (and time-limited) we can change the rules of the game from one to the next!

What rules?  Things like…

The closer a World is to the center, the greater the risk  -- and the higher the reward!

Heroes are created using a deep character customization system, with user-selected Advantages and Disadvantages.  

Though each role is initially balanced for distinct specializations, players will have MANY ways to customize their hero's stats, appearance, abilities and gear! 
 

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2 hours ago, mandalore said:

Constant threat of PvP and constant PvP are not the same thing.

True and while CF technically has a constant threat of PVP, it is rather pointless. There isn't much constant threat of others actually impacting the world in a way that will make a lasting influence on the world or others beyond gaining more points because points = winning in this complex game design. Which I guess any system will boil down to, but there can at least be an attempt to make it seem like it is more then it is, like crafting. Personally I don't log in and wonder who has grinded mobs X hours while I was afk, I'm concerned about what I can actually impact in my playtime. This is where conquest and what not matter and don't really exist in CF. Beyond circles and banging on a tree of course.

Quote

CF is a game with a huge time commitment, ever increasing logistical requirements, unit cohesion, dedicated guilds members, chain of command and then some PvP skill but if you have a group that doesn’t have all of that then you’re going to get smashed by the people that do.

What is consider "logistical" or what makes this design a strategy-like game? Seems to be that it's just a matter of having aged accounts and grinding more then others or at least more efficiently. I don't see much deep strategy going on. Maybe caravans and controlling POI will bring this, but will have to see. Went from we were going to be starving to death by end of winter to nope, just flip enough circles more than others by the timers end. Dedicated guild members and being able to organize is clearly a large strength in team based game but isn't really strategy or anything special, you have it or you don't.

"Then some PVP skill" :( <--- Extra sad face

Edited by APE

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53 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

As we have reached the pinnacle of this thread, I believe we can now close it. 

@Pann, do the honors?

Aside from some unnecessary posts, I think there are some viable and valuable points that we need to see still being made in this thread. Rather than closing it, I've gone through and reported posts that were off-topic, trolling or personal attacks.

As a gesture of kindness, I'm going to let those reports sit in my Inbox until tomorrow morning. That should give everyone ample time to revisit their posts and edit as necessary if they realize they said something in frustration, anger or trolliolio spirit. Was it constructive and on-topic or was it something that will spark the Legendary Pannhammer™? I trust you to make the right call and do the right thing. 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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17 minutes ago, APE said:

True and while CF technically has a constant threat of PVP, it is rather pointless

at this point in time I agree.  the threat while there doesn't mean much.  I am out doing what ever it is I do, I get ganked and don't fight back and just stand there and die, I return to exact same spot and continue doing what I do, maybe I get ganked again cause "hey, he returned" I don't fight back and stand there and die, I returned to the same spot and continue doing what I am doing and usually by the third time, who ever is ganking me is bored and they go away :) :)  Its a mental game with these kiddies which I can play ALL day :)  :)  sometimes I fight back when I am in the mood and that can be fun to :)  specially when I run said kiddie off cause they underestimated me :)  but I have no worries about getting ganked which is what is meant by pointless pvp :)  

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1 hour ago, Drizzzt said:

at this point in time I agree.  the threat while there doesn't mean much.  I am out doing what ever it is I do, I get ganked and don't fight back and just stand there and die, I return to exact same spot and continue doing what I do, maybe I get ganked again cause "hey, he returned" I don't fight back and stand there and die, I returned to the same spot and continue doing what I am doing and usually by the third time, who ever is ganking me is bored and they go away :) :)  Its a mental game with these kiddies which I can play ALL day :)  :)  sometimes I fight back when I am in the mood and that can be fun to :)  specially when I run said kiddie off cause they underestimated me :)  but I have no worries about getting ganked which is what is meant by pointless pvp :)  

Most people lack the patience for that type of play but I commend you for the adamant will.  

My issues with CF are vast but most of them are being handled so there is some modicum of relief on the horizon but for every issue they handle there are another five that aren’t being fixed.  

1.  Guild integration into the game.

2.  Dregs (which brings with it building of assets, “owned” territory, player picked dynamic siege windows and the death of forced factions).  

3.1.  Frostweaver is the last of the classes so after that the class balance push has no more delays.  Ranged classes are underwhelming imo as they all blur together and have little if any key advantages that aren’t easily over come by Elementalist or melee ball metas.  

3.2.  Healer dyanamic is all screwy.  Of the 30 available specs, 3 are healers, they are basically required for organized play and 2 of them in a better place than the remaining 1.  Druid has a high skill cap so in the hands of good player seems overwhelming but in the hands of bad player seems like it’s not even healing.  Cleric is a fire and forget healer with built in tankiness to cover mistakes and is in a good place.  Templar is highly immobile with its heals, they require constant effort and as such what we get is a must stand here to heal char that if played even slightly wrong gets out healed significantly.  Add to those issues a group cap of 5 and a disproportionate amount of people are playing 3/30 available healers and that ratio only gets worse when Frostweaver gets added (I’m assuming it doesn’t have a heal spec).  It’s screwy.  I want a larger group size so 2/5 of every group isn’t playing 10% of the specs (9% after FW).

3.3.  8 of the specs over perform, there’s about 10 that perform right and probably 12 that I just don’t know what the poorly made socks they are doing.  -looking at you radical cleric-

4.  Daily sieges is exhausting.  Personally I won’t, not could I if I even wanted to, do it.  Kudos to those that are.  Some of the best times playing SB where days where there were 4-5 sieges on a Saturday and you could try to do them all but that was rare and exhausting.  Doing 3 every day?  Nope.  

5.  I’ll probably do as little PvE as I can in any game.  It’s not what I enjoy or like.  Do I think there’s a place for it?  I 100% do I just know it’s not for me.  In SB we macro’d to avoid the horrible PvE and in a way it spoiled us and made us blind to what was a core part of the game.  In CF we can’t avoid it.  I’d love to see it dialed down some and JTodd has said it will be.  I’m also aware that Blair was hired for his deep and complex systems so me expecting him to be something he isn’t is not very realistic.  

6.  Disciplines are a huge source of power for the game characters.  I don’t like rng thralls spawning at night (only at night) in random locations and disappearing as day light hits them (lore wise they are ghosts and sunlight is bad for them).  I’d much prefer the SB style of I know this mob will spawn every couple of hours at this location and so does everybody else.  Is it an important rune?  I better bring a friend or two if really want it.  

7.  Caravans. 

8.  I’d love to see SB style mines.  I don’t wanna pay money to hit rocks and trees.  I wanna PvP as much as I reasonably can and still have the game be more than a MOBA.  I understand they will favor the haves.  In SB mines were the best source of daily organized PvP, that’s what I’m chasing: guild vs guild organized fights.

9.  A better NPE so new players don’t get trapped and leave. 

10.  Easier access to cheap gear so returning players, new players, losing players and UDL can get gear/vessels/runes.  

 

 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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18 minutes ago, mandalore said:

4.  Daily sieges is exhausting.

8.  I’d love to see SB style mines.  I don’t wanna pay money to hit rocks and trees.  I wanna PvP as much as I reasonably can and still have the game be more than a MOBA.  I understand they will favor the haves.  In SB mines were the best source of daily organized PvP, that’s what I’m chasing: guild vs guild organized fights.

Agree with all your points but have some questions related to SB as I played it too little and far too long ago. I wonder if CF's depth is limited by what SB had and my hopes of anything greater are completely empty.

Land Control: Did it only consist of city ownership? As in own a city own the land? Was there any POI or greater land capture mechanics that pushed conquest beyond siege and timers?

Siege: Did SB siege have more to it then what we have in CF's version?

Was there multiple layers of walls to go through or just main exterior? Was there doors? Battering rams, boiling oil, traps, etc? Climb walls or ways to bypass them?

I remember reading something about Spire that provided buffs/debuffs to the area.

Watching videos like this... I wonder what about CF is new or altered. Seems like they straight copy/pasted most of it. Also reminds me why I went quickly back to DAoC after trying SB.

 

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1 minute ago, APE said:

Agree with all your points but have some questions related to SB as I played it too little and far too long ago. I wonder if CF's depth is limited by what SB had and my hopes of anything greater are completely empty.

Land Control: Did it only consist of city ownership? As in own a city own the land? Was there any POI or greater land capture mechanics that pushed conquest beyond siege and timers?

Siege: Did SB siege have more to it then what we have in CF's version?

Was there multiple layers of walls to go through or just main exterior? Was there doors? Battering rams, boiling oil, traps, etc? Climb walls or ways to bypass them?

I remember reading something about Spire that provided buffs/debuffs to the area.

Watching videos like this... I wonder what about CF is new or altered. Seems like they straight copy/pasted most of it. Also reminds me why I went quickly back to DAoC after trying SB.

 

SB defenders had to rank up their trees to protect more assets.  Eventually they added a means to own a zone with a special tree where everybody else who had a tree had to pay taxes to the owner of the territory (it was a hogwash running around the map gimmick to get it and only one person per area could have it).  

Spires were a defensive system that gave huge advantages to the defender (imo there should be huge def advantages).  Spires cost gold to activate and run.  You could have three of them with a max rank ToL.  Some spires were amazing, some where gimmicky trash.  No fly spires, no teleport were the two staple metas as they forced the enemy to have to siege your walls.  There were elemental expose spires that people would turn on then flood the siege with that damage type but that only worked a few times before the enemy would get wise to it.  Negative Attack spires, no stealth, no summoning all existed.  When they added spires they added new disciplines to counter them.  They added a discipline to allow somebody to briefly teleport through the walls and another disc to temp disable spires (on a point blank ability). 

Most cities would eventually be built behind three sets of walls.  Some people would build mazes. There were gate doors but people who were Davy wouldn’t use them and instead use the /stuck command to get out of them (you couldn’t use it to get inside).

No bartering rams, no oil, nothing besides catapults and ballistas for siege equipment.  There were siege hammers and siege bows.  They eventually added a discipline to allow caster damage (one at a time and it was a dot).  There was also a way to heal walls via disc and remove death shroud. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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8 minutes ago, mandalore said:

SB defenders had to rank up their trees to protect more assets.  Eventually they added a means to own a zone with a special tree where everybody else who had a tree had to pay taxes to the owner of the territory (it was a hogwash running around the map gimmick to get it and only one person per area could have it).  

Spires were a defensive system that gave huge advantages to the defender (imo there should be huge def advantages).  Spires cost gold to activate and run.  You could have three of them with a max rank ToL.  Some spires were amazing, some where gimmicky trash.  No fly spires, no teleport were the two staple metas as they forced the enemy to have to siege your walls.  There were elemental expose spires that people would turn on then flood the siege with that damage type but that only worked a few times before the enemy would get wise to it.  Negative Attack spires, no stealth, no summoning all existed.  When they added spires they added new disciplines to counter them.  They added a discipline to allow somebody to briefly teleport through the walls and another disc to temp disable spires (on a point blank ability). 

Most cities would eventually be built behind three sets of walls.  Some people would build mazes. There were gate doors but people who were Davy wouldn’t use them and instead use the /stuck command to get out of them (you couldn’t use it to get inside).

No bartering rams, no oil, nothing besides catapults and ballistas for siege equipment.  There were siege hammers and siege bows.  They eventually added a discipline to allow caster damage (one at a time and it was a dot).  There was also a way to heal walls via disc and remove death shroud. 

Thank you. Hopefully ACE at least goes with the more free building stronghold/city and something like spires.

They've never really mentioned anything beyond what we have so I'm not shocked this is it, but I guess I expected more then what games managed to do 15 years ago with old tech.

I don't understand how they call it a Throne War when there is no throne, war, or conquest beyond random circle POI, etc. Dregs hopefully brings more to the table or I don't see launch going well whenever it might arrive.

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I've been playing for about 6 months, my own active cycles come and go. But here are my opinions about what would make me want to test more and be excited to play when Crowfall is released.

Give us a reason to fight besides the fight itself. Some long term goal, something that can exist outside an individual campaign. Maybe something connected to EK's, which in the current state of the game, seem to exist essentially as alternate place to craft or an easier means of transferring items between characters in different factions, but are not a reason to fight.

2 hours ago, APE said:

With each passing season, the World grows more deadly as the land is consumed by an unstoppable legion of undead

^^^ THIS. If the world actually became more dangerous as seasons advanced, that would add something to the feel of the worlds, it would be more engaging, at least for me. Maybe as the seasons progress add a multiplier to mobs raw health, damage, and/or resists. Make winter dangerous! (And yes, I realize this would punish people who came to a campaign late)

Come up with some way of addressing numerical imbalances between the factions. This is gonna be a tough one, there likely aren't any solutions that cannot be gamed with sufficient persistence, cleverness, or money.

Advantages AND Disadvantages - Right now everything exists as an additive advantage - skills, powers, disciplines, crafting 'optionals'.  Take necromancy as an example, necro additives are raw increases, and so are not really perceived as optional additives, they are a requirement. Which is why you had such an uproar when goggles were added and the RNG drop for them was ridiculously low. If they came with a bonus and a drawback (You get +Dex, -Int! Or +slashing pen, -slash resist) they might no longer be perceived as required.

There are also some other excellent ideas and comments sprinkled throughout the thread.

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1 hour ago, mandalore said:

3.2.  Healer dyanamic is all screwy.  Of the 30 available specs, 3 are healers, they are basically required for organized play and 2 of them in a better place than the remaining 1.  Druid has a high skill cap so in the hands of good player seems overwhelming but in the hands of bad player seems like it’s not even healing.  Cleric is a fire and forget healer with built in tankiness to cover mistakes and is in a good place.  Templar is highly immobile with its heals, they require constant effort and as such what we get is a must stand here to heal char that if played even slightly wrong gets out healed significantly.  Add to those issues a group cap of 5 and a disproportionate amount of people are playing 3/30 available healers and that ratio only gets worse when Frostweaver gets added (I’m assuming it doesn’t have a heal spec).  It’s screwy.  I want a larger group size so 2/5 of every group isn’t playing 10% of the specs (9% after FW).

More heal specs would be welcome. A healknight could be fun. Maybe a healfessor. Can't see any other class as healers tho, maybe as buff/debuff bots or utilities.

4.  Daily sieges is exhausting.  Personally I won’t, not could I if I even wanted to, do it.  Kudos to those that are.  Some of the best times playing SB where days where there were 4-5 sieges on a Saturday and you could try to do them all but that was rare and exhausting.  Doing 3 every day?  Nope.  

I don't think daily sieges is necessarily bad. It gives people, especially (only?) in factions, something to participate in and look forward to every night. Exhausting? Sure, but I do think that's something you'd want. You can't and shouldn't be expected to be everywhere at once, and trying to do it should require a lot of effort.

 

 

 


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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47 minutes ago, APE said:

Thank you. Hopefully ACE at least goes with the more free building stronghold/city and something like spires.

They've never really mentioned anything beyond what we have so I'm not shocked this is it, but I guess I expected more then what games managed to do 15 years ago with old tech.

I don't understand how they call it a Throne War when there is no throne, war, or conquest beyond random circle POI, etc. Dregs hopefully brings more to the table or I don't see launch going well whenever it might arrive.

Territory control, spires, mines, lots of the quality of life for sieges, the siege discs (besides commander) were all post JTodd.  

Here is the sb emulator wiki page.  It has all the discs on it, including the siege ones added after JTodd left SB but was still a live service through wolf pack or stray bullet (can’t remember which was his and which wasn’t).   https://morloch.shadowbaneemulator.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

We’ve talked about it with him on the dev boards.  My hope is he asks the community for more info later.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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@coolster50 they could easily make one of the frost weaver specs about healing water and just copy the wow resto shaman theme.  Imo there needs to be at least one more healing spec added and larger group size (even if it’s just one or two).  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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2 hours ago, mandalore said:

@coolster50 they could easily make one of the frost weaver specs about healing water and just copy the wow resto shaman theme.  Imo there needs to be at least one more healing spec added and larger group size (even if it’s just one or two).  

for factions group size is ok, for dregs there should be a buildable totem/artifact thing that increases your guilds max group size, smaller guilds wont need it, larger guilds need to invest more rss to take full advantage of their numbers


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17 minutes ago, Staff said:

for factions group size is ok, for dregs there should be a buildable totem/artifact thing that increases your guilds max group size, smaller guilds wont need it, larger guilds need to invest more rss to take full advantage of their numbers

As it stands the current answer to us asking for larger group size is being told it present problems with the UI and clutter.  They would also have to go through every power and adjust it for the new size.  It seems unlikely to be changed any time soon. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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5 minutes ago, mandalore said:

As it stands the current answer to us asking for larger group size is being told it present problems with the UI and clutter.  They would also have to go through every power and adjust it for the new size.  It seems unlikely to be changed any time soon. 

ui is just an easy excuse for them, ui is easy to change, if they really cant figure it out just copy paste eso's, and when they actually balance every class which will require them to go through every power they can just do it then


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2 minutes ago, Staff said:

ui is just an easy excuse for them, ui is easy to change, if they really cant figure it out just copy paste eso's, and when they actually balance every class which will require them to go through every power they can just do it then

I don’t disagree that the UI can be tweaked.  It won’t be cheap or quick but it can.  Is it worth the qol to us?  Yes.  Is it worth the time and money from Jtodds view?  I don’t know.  It’s come up before and the answer told to us was they would look at it later in dev but for now it’s not really under review or on the list for pre alpha. 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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