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Ussiah

Upcoming Discipline Changes

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, thomasblair said:

The community defined viability for us as a "max white level vessel with discs".
So...
We are working towards making that a reality for players to hit in a weekend. (you should continue to see tweaks to hit this goal in the 5.92.X cycle)

If you want to go to the next stage of progression and use a green or blue vessel, then the default quality that the mobs drop for both minors/majors (blue) are in the world. (If something is eating the spawns then that sounds like a bug, but in stream I saw today players are easily getting 3 blue minors from a r7s, and an ancient spider that dropped a bunch of souls.)

If you want to go beyond that stage in quality levels and use purple or orange vessels, then you are committing to a much lengthier process. (Shouldn't it feel like an accomplishment to max/disc out an orange vessel?)

Basically pick how high you want to go into vessel quality. For some people, the extra attribute points won't be worth it and they don't have the time, so they stop progression at white quality and login for sieges or PoI timers. For others who want to invest the time they have the prestige of the higher qualities.

Whoever told you commons were viable in a blue and purple world was either ill informed or having a laugh. The vessel bonus stat difference alone is around 9-10x difference on stats between a white and blue. If all else is equal that’s a noticeable power difference. A white can’t even hope to reach a primary stat cap much less side benefit from secondary stats, I have blues and purples capping or almost capping primary (300+ Cap) stats with 100+ in secondary stats. A white is a joke compared to any other quality.

Thats before we even get into the knock on effects of lowering HP.

Edited by Duffy

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Duffy said:

The stat difference alone is around 9-10x difference on stats between a white and blue.

Either this is a typo, you are badly misinformed, or you are intentionally misstating the truth.

A blue vessel, fully geared in good blues, is not even close to double a geared white vessel, let alone 10x.

Edited by VaMei

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Posted (edited)

Theirs literally a screenshot in this thread showing the white vs blue number difference. But to be safe I’ll compare my primary characters when I get home and update my post either way.

(To maybe clarify I’m talking about the bonus from the vessel, a white is usually sub +10 to whatever stat and a blue is often +40-60+ depending on additives, crafter skill, and race - the vessel bonus numbers that get added to the base class and racial numbers)

Post in this thread showing what I’m talking about: 

 

The strength bonus is 19x greater on the blue in that case where most of the others fall into the 8-10x range.

Edited by Duffy

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Those are base stats at level 1. After leveling up and putting points where they actually matter the difference is not nearly as significant.

Is a blue vessel and blue gear a big upgrade over white? Absolutely. Is it 9-10 times better? Not by a long shot.

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Posted (edited)

Does the blue have less stats per level than the white? No, they actually get a few extra over the white, therefore the difference there is a wash when comparing, just like gear being equal between the two is a wash. In the end the source of the stat difference is coming from the vessel bonuses, and the blue will always have a significantly higher bonus to its stats than the white.

Even a green is several times higher bonus than a white. Unfortunately I can’t craft a white “rolled” vessel to compare against a base one, but with my maxed necromancer producing green or better bodies for my guild we’re looking at 30+ more points per stat over anyone running around in a common. 

How much is that difference % wise overall, not sure I’d have to go look at a few examples and calculate it. But to say theirs no difference between common +6 to a stat and blue +59 is ridiculous.

Again read my words, not comparing the final stat when you look at your character sheet, comparing the stat bonuses from the vessel. I’ve now clarified and adjusted my posts to point to what I’m talking about as it was not clear enough.

Edited by Duffy

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3 minutes ago, Duffy said:

Unfortunately I can’t craft a white “rolled” vessel to compare against a base one

You actually can craft a white "rolled" vessel using a white Philosopher's Stone to downgrade the final combine. It would be considerably better than a "non-rolled" default white vessel.


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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Jah said:

You actually can craft a white "rolled" vessel using a white Philosopher's Stone to downgrade the final combine. It would be considerably better than a "non-rolled" default white vessel.

Does it guarantee downgrade now? It used to just be a chance. Haven’t downgraded one since the early learning days.

Upgraded a poor bastard’s blue to an epic with an epic head once. Poor guy had to level a slightly better blue on the epic XP track 😅

Edited by Duffy

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1 minute ago, Duffy said:

Does it guarantee downgrade now? It used to just be a chance. Haven’t downgraded one since the early learning days.

No guarantee.


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Two questions woven together here.

(1) How much should better gear improve your character?

(2) How hard should better gear be to get?

People usually have problems with (2) precisely because of the answer to (1).

Disciplines, and gear in general, being too big of power leaps leads to better gear being necessary, and so access comes under heavy scrutiny.

Make white vessel, fully leveled with disciplines and gear be 90% of maximum possible statistical power.

All Greens 94%

All Blues 97.5%

All Purples 99%

All Oranges 100%

Then make each of those improvements exponentially harder to achieve in time and RNG, and you've got yourself a sustainable game that supports a long-term economy.

 

 


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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1 hour ago, Duffy said:

CZQ35i1.png

As I was saying, there's a bit of a difference there in extra stats from vessels.

We're not debating if there was a difference, there obviously is, but the difference is not an insurmountable one. As I said earlier, a level 30 white vessel in blue gear has a fighting chance against a level 30 blue vessel in blue gear. Who wins depends on class, build, and player skill


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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Smaller and smaller improvements that take more and more time.

The real key is that what you are asking/allowing players to do between improvements is very fun.

Eyes on the prize, devs! Good combat, great politics, real victories (not just points, substance)


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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I think this system is fine and just in need of some tweeks. It's great for alt-aholics and theory crafters.

Don't forget that vessels do not break and depending on ruleset will go from campaign to campaign. So I have no issue with a purple / legendary vessel taking for ever to level and rune up.

What I see as the issues now is that the difference between white vessel and blue vessel is pretty wide. Too high a gap from new players to established.

The current test environment is stacked against new players or smaller guilds. We're in full uncle bob mode ATM with materials, training, information, logistics. A full wipe needs to happen soon with the next big change. Skills too.

There is only one mob on the map that drops runes.

Established guilds are sitting on hundreds of discs.

Minors discs are too random to aquire.

 

Most of these things seem fixable. Nob turning.

If you can bring basic vessel up or tune down blue, I think alot of the forum crying goes away.

@thomasblair don't give in to the crying just yet on this. Really want to see how this works out with the intended systems/support in place before anything is changed.


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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Yoink said:

Most of these things seem fixable. Nob turning.

 

You missed the point of the thread. Besides the complaint that having to farm a "legendary disc" doesn't give anyone prestige or a feeling of accomplishment or even a small power boost for the time, the complaint is about making this change PRIOR to putting the fixable things in that we know are coming.

It is a timing issue primarily, secondarily people disagree with adding a grind to something that provides no value other then the fact you get to equip something that another player can just buy.

In this thread they already admitted the amount of 6+ ancient spawns needs tweaking.

@Yoinkyou make the assumption that people want him to just rollback everything, maybe some people do, but the majority of people are giving ways to make the system work and be reasonable. Please don't categorize everyone as "crying" when you agree with the majority that changes need made or "fixed".

  • Small stat boosts for better quality discs.
  • More ancients.
  • Changing it so white vessels can only equip white, green could equip green or white etc then putting greater stat power into discs. Thus making players want the vessel and then the OPTION to find out better discs with better stats.
  • Making ancients have a chance to drop better quality souls(purple etc)
Edited by Ussiah

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2 hours ago, Ussiah said:

@Yoinkyou make the assumption that people want him to just rollback everything,

No, sorry if this seemed aimed at you or anyone in this thread. What I'm assuming is that if this gets read it will be received as crying and "wow everyone hates this, better make broad sweeping changes to this system."

 

 


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2 minutes ago, Yoink said:

No, sorry if this seemed aimed at you or anyone in this thread. What I'm assuming is that if this gets read it will be received as crying and "wow everyone hates this, better make broad sweeping changes to this system."

I feel that they need to make broad sweeping changes compared to their current direction. As everyone has said, including ACE, they have dials and knobs to adjust everything, so why haven't they used them? Or perhaps they cannot do what they have said. Sort of like when they moved most manpower to fix performance issues months ago and couldn't fix that. 

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You don't like where the game is - take a break!
I fully agree with both sides.
Too grindy for actual play! 
Not fully  implemented!

It's a Vicious circle: We have a grind, and lack of QoL. They need testers for the performance improvements. 
Systems, balance, QoL, performance - they all need to go head to head.

Possible? No! - If you can't work with that then take a step back for a while.

On the issue - 'I payed I want to play!' In 16 years of MMO I payed for so many games that I played for 1-3 months that is not even funny. I have 7 months since I play Crowfall on an almost daily basis. I got twice the money back :)


Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, KDSProm said:

You don't like where the game is - take a break!
I fully agree with both sides.
Too grindy for actual play! 
Not fully  implemented!

It's a Vicious circle: We have a grind, and lack of QoL. They need testers for the performance improvements. 
Systems, balance, QoL, performance - they all need to go head to head.

Possible? No! - If you can't work with that then take a step back for a while.

On the issue - 'I payed I want to play!' In 16 years of MMO I payed for so many games that I played for 1-3 months that is not even funny. I have 7 months since I play Crowfall on an almost daily basis. I got twice the money back :)

Quote

I hate this mentality of "just dont play"

I see it from so many who have made that choice. I seriously am starting to believe they'd rather just run us all off from trying to play the game, if they want that just have us test(and fix what we state is broken) and stop doing campaigns with rewards.

@APEis perfectly reasonable with what he is saying. ACE has tried to have us both "play" and "test" yet by doing both they really aren't supporting either in a coordinated way.

If they want us to be able to "play" then they should understand criticism of how the game currently plays and maybe the people who say "just dont play" can stop criticizing us for wanting to be able to.

If they want us to "test" they should give us all the tools to test without the grind and listen to our feedback/fix what is majorly broken before going on.

Edited by Ussiah
Taken word for word from another thread. Don't tell me not to play. Period. If the developers don't want me to play, they can tell me.

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9 minutes ago, Ussiah said:

I hate this mentality of "just dont play"

I see it from so many who have made that choice. I seriously am starting to believe they'd rather just run us all off from trying to play the game, if they want that just have us test(and fix what we state is broken) and stop doing campaigns with rewards.

@APEis perfectly reasonable with what he is saying. ACE has tried to have us both "play" and "test" yet by doing both they really aren't supporting either in a coordinated way.

If they want us to be able to "play" then they should understand criticism of how the game currently plays and maybe the people who say "just dont play" can stop criticizing us for wanting to be able to.

If they want us to "test" they should give us all the tools to test without the grind and listen to our feedback/fix what is majorly broken before going on.

I also hate it when people say this.  Games are not for the elites where they can run us off if we disagree with a direction the game is going.  specially one that is in testing phase.  the devs want our feed back and that is what we are doing and that answer to our feed back is NOT "just don't play" and those who keep peddling that garbage need to zip it :)  :)  

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Download Game Client

Crowfall has not launched and is currently in early testing.

  • That means the game will have bugs (finding and fixing them is why we test), and some skills, features and content are still in development and not yet available.
  • By downloading the game client you are acknowledging that Crowfall has not launched yet and may contain bugs and missing features

    ^^
    Feedback is one thing. The situation being acknowledged is the best we can have atm. Putting more pressure on ACE is not helping. Most likely will lead to them starting to ignore 'the noise'. If you feel like making noise and you actually care about the final product then take a break!

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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