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PaleOne

the game was too grindy and then made it more grindy- RNGx3

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So to use in higher quality vessels need to refine disciplines by getting three of the same disciplines and combining them.

but disciplines drop randomly off rare spawn boss mobs..

so what kind of crazy Tripple RNG craziness will that entail..

what are the odds currently of getting THREE of the same discipline at all—-

It’s tough to find ONE of the disciplines you need  let alone three..

 

 

 


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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I'm not really sure why people are so bent out of shape on this. In the future there are going to be more than 1 mob that drops disciplines and in general they will be easier to acquire. It's just another temporary pain-point that sucks at the current moment.

Also people need to keep in mind that this is an MMO we are going to be playing long term. Achieving peak character loadouts needs to be something that takes time otherwise people will get everything and get bored. They made getting a competitive character pretty easy, you're going to have to put in some time to get the extra stats.

TLDR: Temporary pain. I'm not bothering trying to min-max the hell out of the game right now because I know it's painful. It's going to change. 

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Posted (edited)

Another reason you might not be min maxing is because you don't play?

And I can't fault you for that, 90% of the people have decided to do the same.

Response: Yes, its alpha.  But the people here want to play the game. If the testers have value to the game devs, they'll need to implement things in a less-painful way.  You do this by ensuring the "place holder" is not a tedious horrible experience, or you wait until the system thats having its place held is implemented to remove the aspect of the game that it's supposed to provide.

On the other hand, if the testers are not important to the game dev team, then yeah, keep doing this.  Its their prerogative.  But if you look at the ghost town this game has become, you got to recognize the effects of these changes.  You havent been here for most of the time its gotten really bad.  It's just not fun.  It comes down to them deciding if they want testers or not (at least for this portion of the alpha).

Edited by Ble

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The testers do have value, however, ACE has said many times during development that not everyone wants to see the “sausage being made”. If you get frustrated by a build because of bugs, balance issues, or missing/incomplete features then give your feedback and take a break until the next patch.

They have a QA team (with a backlog of needed fixes), and the designers are usually working on one or two builds ahead that aren’t even on TEST yet. Asking them to change the current build doesn’t always make sense based on how the process works.

I’d like the game to get to launch ready state ASAP. That means we have to live with some pain points in testing  in exchange for development efficiency. I’m ok with that as long as the project keeps moving toward a fun result in the future.


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Not asking to change the build. Asking for a more completed version before getting the build dumped on us.

Or make it easier to obtain, the supposed “knobs” can be turned down at launch. Currently a lot of people can’t even test things because they suddenly can’t equip them. So why are we here? Unless the current test is how much grind can we force on them before they leave....

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, miraluna said:

The testers do have value, however, ACE has said many times during development that not everyone wants to see the “sausage being made”. If you get frustrated by a build because of bugs, balance issues, or missing/incomplete features then give your feedback and take a break until the next patch.

They have a QA team (with a backlog of needed fixes), and the designers are usually working on one or two builds ahead that aren’t even on TEST yet. Asking them to change the current build doesn’t always make sense based on how the process works.

I’d like the game to get to launch ready state ASAP. That means we have to live with some pain points in testing  in exchange for development efficiency. I’m ok with that as long as the project keeps moving toward a fun result in the future.

The issues that seem to be annoying people aren't remedied from one patch to another or several patches later. It is more the way in which ACE is choosing to implement systems and features that are some what backwards.

There should be bandaids or placeholder options to alleviate some of the problems that arise when something is added prior to other necessary pieces to the puzzle.

It's their choice to run LIVE like a "game" and expect players to experience it as such. They could treat it like a TEST (which it is) and provide tools/settings that make playing/testing less of a hassle regardless of whatever features they are adding or will add 6 months down the line.

I'd rather they get big picture stuff done first prior to fine tuning things, but looking at patch notes and changes, seems ACE continues to attempt to fine tune things that then break other things or better yet become irrelevant once they add another new system in that changes/breaks a whole list of other things. If they are several builds a head in studio, seems strange that they do things like this. From recent comments, I doubt they are a full build a head at times. More like everyone is working on something that eventually gets bundled into a something else. Which could explain why different updates/features don't line up so well and are causing the critical feedback.

No easy choices here, but there are definitely steps they could do to please those being critical without needing to do extra work.

Not everyone wants to see the sausage made but if only 50 people do, going to be rather limited feedback. Same goes for this being a niche, if only 500 show up at launch, going to be a short lived game.

Edited by APE

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ACE made a commitment to transparency and involving backers in the iterative development process. That’s why they run the LIVE servers.

They don’t “need” us to be full time testers. Games get made all the time with closed NDA development. The CF team has been more responsive and open to feedback than any other game I have followed. Hopefully the launch result will be better for it, but there is no shortcut in the long complex process of making an MMO. Get in and do what you can to help, or wait for late beta/launch like 95% of the rest of the players are doing.


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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, miraluna said:

ACE made a commitment to transparency and involving backers in the iterative development process. That’s why they run the LIVE servers.

They don’t “need” us to be full time testers. Games get made all the time with closed NDA development. The CF team has been more responsive and open to feedback than any other game I have followed. Hopefully the launch result will be better for it, but there is no shortcut in the long complex process of making an MMO. Get in and do what you can to help, or wait for late beta/launch like 95% of the rest of the players are doing.

I hate this mentality of "just dont play"

I see it from so many who have made that choice. I seriously am starting to believe they'd rather just run us all off from trying to play the game, if they want that just have us test(and fix what we state is broken) and stop doing campaigns with rewards.

@APEis perfectly reasonable with what he is saying. ACE has tried to have us both "play" and "test" yet by doing both they really aren't supporting either in a coordinated way.

If they want us to be able to "play" then they should understand criticism of how the game currently plays and maybe the people who say "just dont play" can stop criticizing us for wanting to be able to.

If they want us to "test" they should give us all the tools to test without the grind and listen to our feedback/fix what is majorly broken before going on.

 

Edited by Ussiah

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37 minutes ago, miraluna said:

ACE made a commitment to transparency and involving backers in the iterative development process. That’s why they run the LIVE servers.

I think that's part of the issue. It should simply be a test server that is up all the time. The grind in all areas should be dialed way down since the game is in testing stage. Treating the game as live when its still missing many core systems and interdependencies has helped bring us to this end. 

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5 minutes ago, Ussiah said:

I hate this mentality of "just dont play"

I see it from so many who have made that choice. I seriously am starting to believe they'd rather just run us all off from trying to play the game, if they want that just have us test(and fix what we state is broken) and stop doing campaigns with rewards.

@APEis perfectly reasonable with what he is saying. ACE has tried to have us both "play" and "test" yet by doing both they really aren't supporting either in a coordinated way.

If they want us to be able to "play" then they should understand criticism of how the game currently plays and maybe the people who say "just dont play" can stop criticizing us for wanting to be able to.

If they want us to "test" they should give us all the tools to test without the grind and listen to our feedback/fix what is majorly broken before going on.

 

This. Telling people just dont play will lead to people well, just not playing. This leaves less people to play which creates a feedback loop of people leaving the game. 5.9 was boasted a the performance and controller update but we havent been able to stress test it because the numbers are rapidly falling every week. 

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1 hour ago, Marth said:

This. Telling people just dont play will lead to people well, just not playing. This leaves less people to play which creates a feedback loop of people leaving the game. 5.9 was boasted a the performance and controller update but we havent been able to stress test it because the numbers are rapidly falling every week. 

the siege zones are still having major lag spikes with only 40 people at most there. Performance was not enhanced 

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2 hours ago, miraluna said:

ACE made a commitment to transparency and involving backers in the iterative development process. That’s why they run the LIVE servers.

They don’t “need” us to be full time testers. Games get made all the time with closed NDA development. The CF team has been more responsive and open to feedback than any other game I have followed. Hopefully the launch result will be better for it, but there is no shortcut in the long complex process of making an MMO. Get in and do what you can to help, or wait for late beta/launch like 95% of the rest of the players are doing.

Transparency comes in many forms, but it is humorous that every game in development seems to have folks that say "X has been the most transparent ever."

ACE thought there was a shortcut to creating a MMO, at least based on their initial timelines and expectations.

It's more like 99.5 - 99.9% as well. Which is fine but all that transparency doesn't seem to help compared to other games in transparent alpha's that pull in more.

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1 hour ago, APE said:

Transparency comes in many forms, but it is humorous that every game in development seems to have folks that say "X has been the most transparent ever."

ACE thought there was a shortcut to creating a MMO, at least based on their initial timelines and expectations.

It's more like 99.5 - 99.9% as well. Which is fine but all that transparency doesn't seem to help compared to other games in transparent alpha's that pull in more.

every community would claim that their game is transparent. 

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1 minute ago, Marth said:

every community would claim that their game is transparent. 

Which is why transparent is on my list of dumb cringe marketing buzz words. Along with dynamic, emergent, sandbox, and a few choice phrases.

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2 hours ago, APE said:

Transparency comes in many forms, but it is humorous that every game in development seems to have folks that say "X has been the most transparent ever."

It is no surprise to me that many different games that are currently in development would have backers who have never followed the development of a game so closely, and never experienced so much transparency. Especially given that most games in the past were developed with very little transparency. If you are following multiple modern crowdfunded games, you are probably seeing several of the most transparent game developments ever.


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I was talking about this with Sophia earlier today, and she brought up a good point: the current discipline "problem" wouldn't be so bad if it were introduced in a fresh wipe scenario. If it were in a fresh wipe situation, it wouldn't be such a problem, as it would "level up" along with your gear and vessel, and the things required to make them, would gain a similar traction as the individual player. I think once we see a proper wipe, this "issue" won't be as seemly as it seems to be. It'll shadow the curve of the vessel/gear leveling curve. It was just introduced in a weird place. 

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For old players, Discipline is something important to get , to boost your damage and gathering . but for New players  Gathering and crafting even leveling is so grindy .  the game need many mini developers to enhance it .    

waiting for next patch to see some fun

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