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Retaliate, Crowd Control and PvP

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Greetings! I'm back with More complaining!

We are closing up the Campaign and I managed to test out a few Sieges, to understand how they work and what to try and bring on my own. I've really enjoyed exploring the depths of various classes, and I thought about: How can I be the best usefull to my team? I'm more of a support type of PvP, I enjoy fighting but I think my true "Form" comes out on support classes.

While I didn't want to be Full Healer, I still wanted to have more utility than damage. I decided to go for a Templar Fury, and I noticed it really has some strong self sustain. But during the sieges, results weren't what I hoped for. I recently obtained a Cleric (missclick, because I had a new vessel and I failed hard) but with "wrong" stats. I decided to go DPS Arbiter, just to test out something new. While it doesn't have nearly as much sustain as the Templar (mostly because of the wrong stats) it still has some decent damage. But what I've noticed between Fury and Arbiter that makes me regret the time I've spent farming exp for them, is Retaliate.

Crowd Control is like a Skydive from 100 meters trying to land in a small swimming pool of 2 meters. To be able to make it balanced you really need to hit the target after hundreds of tries. CC as of now in Crowfall seems to be way too strong against PvE mobs, and completely usless in sieges. With the Fury, I am able to take on a GroupBoss on my own while I just keep on Knocking it down with the parry, or Divine Light to heal up once every while. The Arbiter is unable to keep the CC on the same level, because the parry is just way too strong for these monsters. When it comes to Sieges, the CC becomes basically pointless. At the beginning I thought that an Arbiter would be usefull because Rooting couldn't be retaliated. Now it can. In PvP Arbiters are completely usless. As basically ANY TalentTreeBranch involving CC. Everything because of the Retaliate.

Why go CC when your opponent can Ignore it and ignore basically any other upcoming CC for 4 seconds? And this can be repeated about 3 consecutive times. Stamina can be drained with this, yes, but stamina also recharges, and attacking doesn't make it go down. I completely understand that Retaliate's true strenght comes for sieges, where many players are involved and you need to be able to recover from lots of hits. But if that means ignoring Talents that were put there for a reason, I would totally rethink about a few thngs.

Now you could say "Hey, you are complaining just because you are using that class" but be honest, retaliate right now IS pretty strong, and all CC classes are pretty usless.

My tips:

Retaliate : Add a Cooldown of 3 seconds After the Anti-CC Status ends. Reduce the Anti-CC Status duration by 1 seconds. Gives at least a 3 seconds frame for CC to actually kick in. This doesn't Excessively boost CCers, but gives them a window they can open by using 2 consecutive spells to CC someone.

Parry: While the parry should remain unchanged, the retaliate of the parry should have a cooldown of about 5 seconds. Paladins are just the excellency for PvE. And they are supposed to be healers....

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Retaliate has been balanced towards a greater number of players.

You might seem useless in 1 on 1, 2 on 2 etc.

But when you have 20-30 people all spamming their damage and CC on one target, it's a matter of seconds if the target is able to retaliate in time and get out.

What you seem to be lacking, is having some experience playing and coordinating with other players in combat.

Yes people can retaliate often, but with teamwork you can CC way more often than they are able to retaliate, effectively draining their stamina and making them a nice target to go on.


You can also prime a target, by making them retaliate before you switch to them.

So I think you should get into more group fights, with some structure in how you fight, and then come back and see if you have the same opinion.


There are also non-retaliateable CC, such as slow, push/pulls and dodge pip drains.

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My hope is that they move dodge back to having a stamina cost and do away with separate "dodge pips". 

That would make managing stamina a much more crucial thing as you'd have to choose between dodge/block and retaliate. This should also help the CC builds some. 

We could also look at having stamina draining attacks such as the knight's shield attack that currently drains dodge pips. 

This also may result in new builds that favor stamina which would add another layer of character building. 

We could then have armor that modifies stamina cost. Currently, heavier armor already drains stamina faster than lighter armor for sprinting. The same could potentially be applied to dodge/retaliate. 

Lots of possibilities with a seemingly simple change. 

Edited by blazzen

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My suggestion is allow CC specs which are useless atm, a unique way to go through CC depending on the spec. One could have a talent that puts enemy retaliate on a short cooldown when they use a CC skill duration should be based off CC control vs Control defence. Other ways can be skill thats reduce the opponent stamina allow them to try and reduce stamina to allow for a CC to go off for full duration (Counter blocks a little bit aswell since they also use stamina), another way is having a CC go through CC immunity however can be retaliated this means they can use one CC to knock them down and follow up with another after they retaliate.
These will only be available to those class specs that are designed to be CC focused cause currently they dont realy do dmg and there less tanky generaly than there other choice take knights for example Swordman = dmg Sequtor = defence Sentinel = ummm crap at everything pretty much low dmg, low survival cant CC at all sooooo yeah sucks to be that class :P

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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