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Wipe coming with new trial

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, LastRights said:

I think you just need to read further. " At least provide alternate ways to gain skill points you can farm if you're dedicated." I feel like you haven't thought your reply through. Every game has a catch-up mechanism for new players. This is supposed to be a pvp oriented game, where end-game is exciting for all the battles you can have and not because after months and months you're character is still falling short of being able to compete...

I know very well about tomes and what my understanding of them were, unless that somehow changed. And my question still stands. There was never any mention of someone coming in game a year later being able to just skill their way up to the vets, just make progress faster. Not to mention if a player joins a year later and can easily skill themselves up to that person playing from the start, what is the point of having a passive system in the first place? It's not rewarding long time players if the next Joe to walk in can get that without the inane wait.

FYI. I think the passive system is stupid personally and I rather not even have it in game. Let people just put their own effort into it. And having all your crafting skill based on a passive time sink is ridiculous. But it is what it is.

Edited by Navystylz

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Just now, Navystylz said:

Correct me if this information has somehow changed. But it was my belief that skill tomes would be from players banking time and converting it into tomes. Which means that for a minimum, the first year, there will be no person putting time into tomes for anyone. Also you're arguing that these newer players are going to have people just dishing out tomes to them. Because if they feel so useless without having these catch up tomes, and can't produce much of anything worthwhile, what currency will they have to trade with? I can see guilds going we need get your pvp toon with their passive asap. But otherwise, you could just as easily dish out the material and gear that most of the passive training 

As galvia said crafting and harvesting is the only thing really gated by the passive skills. So to say there is nothing to do for someome who joins late is a bit silly. The people who have been playing could easily supply the fresh joins with gear. At the same time motherloads require 1 trained person and then a bunch of others just beating up the motherload. So one could still harvest. On top of that im fairly certain that ACE said that there will be a catch up mechanic. Im sure just like everything else there will be 4 or 5 different versions of that before its finalized. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Tyrannicall said:

As galvia said crafting and harvesting is the only thing really gated by the passive skills. So to say there is nothing to do for someome who joins late is a bit silly. The people who have been playing could easily supply the fresh joins with gear. At the same time motherloads require 1 trained person and then a bunch of others just beating up the motherload. So one could still harvest. On top of that im fairly certain that ACE said that there will be a catch up mechanic. Im sure just like everything else there will be 4 or 5 different versions of that before its finalized. 

Which only goes to describes a situation where the argument for needing a skill wipe--to me at least--sounds like people just feel they missed out so want to "start even". The extra combat stats isn't even an argument because we all know that people were fighting other just fine with their passives only in the crafting and harvesting trees and all their combat stats from in game.

EDIT: But at the end of the day ACE said they wipe things when big changes happen to them. No changes have happened to passive skill have they? Also a better time for the wipe would probably be 6.0. 

Edited by Navystylz

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6 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

Which only goes to describes a situation where the argument for needing a skill wipe--to me at least--sounds like people just feel they missed out so want to "start even". The extra combat stats isn't even an argument because we all know that people were fighting other just fine with their passives only in the crafting and harvesting trees and all their combat stats from in game.

EDIT: But at the end of the day ACE said they wipe things when big changes happen to them. No changes have happened to passive skill have they? Also a better time for the wipe would probably be 6.0. 

Oh i completly agree. Im 100% on the side of there is no point to wipe until changes happen that require the wipe. The only reason there wiping vessels and gear is because of the changes made to stats and disciplines.

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Debate away how much an advantage this is vs a fresh player without the same skills as myself in these trees.

My current Skill Trees for Combat and Armor related stat growth (feel free to add it all up, i'm lazy)

***MELEE***
3% crit chance
25 atk pow
3% crit dmg
3% anti crit
5% hard control intensity

*** Weapons ***
25 atk pow
3% crit dmg
3% crit chance
3% armor pen physical
10% weapon decay reduction
armor pen organic 5%
armor pen elemental 5%
15 support power
25 atk pow
3% crit dmg
5% atk control intensity
100 hp
25 atk pow
15 supp pow


*** Combat Basics ***

25 atk pow
100 hp
3 %anti crit
3% crit dmg
3% crit chance
3% anti crit
25 atk pow
5% movement control intensity
5% hard control intensity
5% atk control intensity
5% armor pen organic
3% armor pen physical
3% armor pen elemental
3% organic resistance
3% elemental resistance
100 hp
3% physical resistance
5% atk control defense
5% movement control defense
5% hard control defense
1% resist all
100 hp
5 Stamina

*** Armor ***
100 hp
3% anti crit
3% anti crit
5% atk control defense
5% movement control defense
5% hard control defense
100 hp
3% ice resistance
3% lightenting resistance
3% slashing resist
3% crushing resist
3% piercing resist
3% fire resist
3% nature resist
3% pois resist
3% slashing resist
3% poison resist
3% crushing resist
3% piercing resist
3% electricity resist
3% fire resist
3% disease resist
3% pois resist
3% nature resist
3% ice resist
1% resist all
100 hp
decay rate armor; -10%

*** Mail ***

100 hp
1% resist all
3% slashing resist
3% crushing resist
3% piercing resist
3% slashing resist
3% electric resist
100 hp
decary rate mail; -10%
3% anti crit
5% atk control D
100 hp
movement control defense 5%
hard control defense 5%

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Navystylz said:

Correct me if this information has somehow changed. But it was my belief that skill tomes would be from players banking time and converting it into tomes. Which means that for a minimum, the first year, there will be no person putting time into tomes for anyone. Also you're arguing that these newer players are going to have people just dishing out tomes to them. Because if they feel so useless without having these catch up tomes, and can't produce much of anything worthwhile, what currency will they have to trade with? I can see guilds going we need get your pvp toon with their passive asap. But otherwise, you could just as easily dish out the material and gear that most of the passive training covers.

 

Yeah that's how I understood the concept behind Skill Tomes, but we can only speculate on whether what they've outlined will work in its specifics (or if the specifics are even the same after all this time). Let's say, for instance, if banked time doesn't detract from current training; veterans who are ahead in Skills training will then have lots of banked time that has no direct value to their account, but that can be turned into profit or passed on to new guild members. What new players can provide to trade for those tomes is a good question, but that's more to do with the overall economic health of this game and not whether Skill Tomes are a sufficient catch-up mechanic.

That is a couple of big ifs to making Skill Tomes work, and as I mentioned earlier none of this helps the current state of the game, so yeah... We're speculating, not assuming.

Edited by Xarrayne

:^)

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1 minute ago, Navystylz said:

I know very well about tomes and what my understanding of them were, unless that somehow changed. And my question still stands. There was never any mention of someone coming in game a year later being able to just skill their way up to the vets, just make progress faster. Not to mention if a player joins a year later and can easily skill themselves up to that person playing from the start, what is the point of having a passive system in the first place? It's not rewarding long time players if the next Joe to walk in can get that without the inane wait.

I certainly have not suggested, that people should easily reach the level of skill tree progression of a veteran, but they should not be punished for coming late either. PvP and zerg centric games should inherently be revolving around strategy, group composition, game sense and game experience on an (at least close to) level playing field. Not passive skill trees progressed by time, and you know that. If you're a veteran, you surely have a better game sense, better group organization and discipline, than a rookie. Why punish newcomers by making their characters significantly weaker and useless as well? It just puts an unnecessary barrier of entry to crowfall. Imagine the game being live for half a year and elite guilds have already formed. You're literally making it impossible for any new player or newly formed guild to achieve anything, unless you separate new players from old ones in restricted campaigns. Elite guilds that have enough numbers will not be compelled to take new players on, because they will inherently be useless for them. I definitely do not have and do not wish to claim that I've got enough experience with the game, I'm still new. I'm just dissapointed that with all the excitement I came in, all I can contribute after playing the game for weeks is to be a moving training dummy, despite reaching max level and being supplied rare quality items.

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8 minutes ago, LastRights said:

I'm just dissapointed that with all the excitement I came in, all I can contribute after playing the game for weeks is to be a moving training dummy, despite reaching max level and being supplied rare quality items.

I have to raise issue here. After a few weeks of skill training and being supplied rare gear/levels you should not be a moving training dummy. At that point offline skills alone will not be a deciding factor outside of some crafting and harvesting. 

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6 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I have to raise issue here. After a few weeks of skill training and being supplied rare gear/levels you should not be a moving training dummy. At that point offline skills alone will not be a deciding factor outside of some crafting and harvesting. 

Do you think combat basics is enough for that? That's what you get in that time at best, if you focus on combat.

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23 minutes ago, Crushedvelvet said:

Debate away how much an advantage this is vs a fresh player without the same skills as myself in these trees.

My current Skill Trees for Combat and Armor related stat growth (feel free to add it all up, i'm lazy)

***MELEE***
3% crit chance
25 atk pow
3% crit dmg
3% anti crit
5% hard control intensity

*** Weapons ***
25 atk pow
3% crit dmg
3% crit chance
3% armor pen physical
10% weapon decay reduction
armor pen organic 5%
armor pen elemental 5%
15 support power
25 atk pow
3% crit dmg
5% atk control intensity
100 hp
25 atk pow
15 supp pow


*** Combat Basics ***

25 atk pow
100 hp
3 %anti crit
3% crit dmg
3% crit chance
3% anti crit
25 atk pow
5% movement control intensity
5% hard control intensity
5% atk control intensity
5% armor pen organic
3% armor pen physical
3% armor pen elemental
3% organic resistance
3% elemental resistance
100 hp
3% physical resistance
5% atk control defense
5% movement control defense
5% hard control defense
1% resist all
100 hp
5 Stamina

*** Armor ***
100 hp
3% anti crit
3% anti crit
5% atk control defense
5% movement control defense
5% hard control defense
100 hp
3% ice resistance
3% lightenting resistance
3% slashing resist
3% crushing resist
3% piercing resist
3% fire resist
3% nature resist
3% pois resist
3% slashing resist
3% poison resist
3% crushing resist
3% piercing resist
3% electricity resist
3% fire resist
3% disease resist
3% pois resist
3% nature resist
3% ice resist
1% resist all
100 hp
decay rate armor; -10%

*** Mail ***

100 hp
1% resist all
3% slashing resist
3% crushing resist
3% piercing resist
3% slashing resist
3% electric resist
100 hp
decary rate mail; -10%
3% anti crit
5% atk control D
100 hp
movement control defense 5%
hard control defense 5%

alot o numbers

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Just now, Marth said:

they should test these out before live.

Oh yeah definitely, and the sooner they come out the better since they'll probably need several passes to get the numbers and functionality where they need to be, not to mention that it seems like the game kinda needs them to help retain new players 😕


:^)

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Xarrayne said:

Oh yeah definitely, and the sooner they come out the better since they'll probably need several passes to get the numbers and functionality where they need to be, not to mention that it seems like the game kinda needs them to help retain new players 😕

For sure testing those too would help new players get into the game and give them something to do while their training catches up. Especially since we dont wipe skills that much. 

Edited by Marth

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Just a few of the focus points I have seen heard and know people ask for :)

Based on the combat passive training that Crushedvelvet provided above.

18% Anti Crit - No Big Deal

9% Armor Penatration - No Big Deal

9% Crit Chance - How many points of dex is that you could have in another stat?

12% Crit Damage - How many points of Int is that you could have in another stat?

12% Slashing resist/9% Piercing resist/9% Crushing resist/9% poison resist 

a lot of CC control resists also.

If its really not that important like some players are saying. The it does not matter to you all if they max out everyone's combat then right? Cause its no big deal right? I would assume its just a turn of a dial. if its not then 100% disregard my suggestion in the suggestion forums because we should not risk causing issues for the games progression for this topic. If it is as easy as a turn of a dial then please go like the suggestion in the suggestion forums. It is no big deal after all. thanks for the support everyone. 😀

Come on everyone lets be real it is a bigger deal than we are letting on but I do want to say I am in support of an alternative way to level the playing field a little. Not going to change it all but will have impact in some way. but most of all it will give new players a chance. or at least as much of a chance as we can give them :) And the tenured players don't lose a thing. 

 

Sorry had to do it :) 

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13 minutes ago, DrakanoWOW said:

Just a few of the focus points I have seen heard and know people ask for :)

Based on the combat passive training that Crushedvelvet provided above.

18% Anti Crit - No Big Deal

9% Armor Penatration - No Big Deal

9% Crit Chance - How many points of dex is that you could have in another stat?

12% Crit Damage - How many points of Int is that you could have in another stat?

12% Slashing resist/9% Piercing resist/9% Crushing resist/9% poison resist 

a lot of CC control resists also.

If its really not that important like some players are saying. The it does not matter to you all if they max out everyone's combat then right? Cause its no big deal right? I would assume its just a turn of a dial. if its not then 100% disregard my suggestion in the suggestion forums because we should not risk causing issues for the games progression for this topic. If it is as easy as a turn of a dial then please go like the suggestion in the suggestion forums. It is no big deal after all. thanks for the support everyone. 😀

Come on everyone lets be real it is a bigger deal than we are letting on but I do want to say I am in support of an alternative way to level the playing field a little. Not going to change it all but will have impact in some way. but most of all it will give new players a chance. or at least as much of a chance as we can give them :) And the tenured players don't lose a thing. 

 

Sorry had to do it :) 

i have only the first tree of weapons filled out, which takes no time at all to get to and no leather training before this last camp, yet still came out with the 2nd best KD on chaos despite having many encounters with holes in the ground, personal skill and game knowledge plays more of a part then combat passive training


hoayaga2.jpg

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@Staff YAS!!!! That is awesome. Since its no big deal come on over and like the suggestion 😍

 

But in all serious I have said a few times and want to reiterate this topic does not remove the need for being a skilled player. Staff I am glad your proud of your achievement. I am proud to have been able to play this campaign with you but the simple fact is it will help newer players stand up just a little better. 

 

I also forgot to mention it gives you 1k hp also. And to be honest that is a big deal also. 

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While i agree that have combat passive training can help, your overall ability to play the game is definitely a much bigger factor. While the combat system is not super skill capped you still need to know how to play. If you have been playing for a few weeks and all you feel like you are moving combat target then it might be a personal factor that is the problem.

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31 minutes ago, DrakanoWOW said:

Just a few of the focus points I have seen heard and know people ask for :)

Based on the combat passive training that Crushedvelvet provided above.

18% Anti Crit - No Big Deal

9% Armor Penatration - No Big Deal

9% Crit Chance - How many points of dex is that you could have in another stat?

12% Crit Damage - How many points of Int is that you could have in another stat?

12% Slashing resist/9% Piercing resist/9% Crushing resist/9% poison resist 

a lot of CC control resists also.

If its really not that important like some players are saying. The it does not matter to you all if they max out everyone's combat then right? Cause its no big deal right? I would assume its just a turn of a dial. if its not then 100% disregard my suggestion in the suggestion forums because we should not risk causing issues for the games progression for this topic. If it is as easy as a turn of a dial then please go like the suggestion in the suggestion forums. It is no big deal after all. thanks for the support everyone. 😀

Come on everyone lets be real it is a bigger deal than we are letting on but I do want to say I am in support of an alternative way to level the playing field a little. Not going to change it all but will have impact in some way. but most of all it will give new players a chance. or at least as much of a chance as we can give them :) And the tenured players don't lose a thing. 

 

Sorry had to do it :) 

I personally would love for them to flush it all out.

Then when people lose fights its no longer an excuse 😂

 

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1 minute ago, Tyrannicall said:

While i agree that have combat passive training can help, your overall ability to play the game is definitely a much bigger factor. While the combat system is not super skill capped you still need to know how to play. If you have been playing for a few weeks and all you feel like you are moving combat target then it might be a personal factor that is the problem.

100% agree 

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