Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
Tyrannicall

Armor pen, how is it calculated.

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

So there are currently 2 theories with how armor pen is calculated with no real way to verify either one.

1. Armor pen is treated as a % where if you have 50% armor pen you are only penetrating 50% of the targets total resistance. This is definitely the more balanced option and also makes sense regarding the different caps given to those stats.

2. Armor pen is treated as a 1 for 1 trade where if you have 50 armor pen and your target has 50 resitance you are effectively negating all of there armor. This is definitely the more unbalanced option due to the fact that armor pen caps out at 100, and resistances cap between 40-60 depending on the class.

I would love to have some clarification on this because it could greatly impact combat effectiveness. @Pann

Edited by Tyrannicall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im pretty sure it works like the 1st one where if you have 50% pen hitting somone at 60% reduction you will be hitting them for 30% reduction instead. So you half the armor mitigation from 60-30%


Veeshan Midst of UXA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We always get the uncapped mitigation value, subtract penetration, then apply the cap again.

(example 1) If you have 47% crushing pen, and dummy has 50% crushing mitigation, you would be hitting it as if it had 3% crushing mitigation.

OR

(example 2) If you have an uncapped 100% fire mitigation (cap is 75%) , get hit with a 20% fire pen, you now have an 80% fire mitigation but still capped at 75% since you are over capped.

Mitigation is always useful, and armor pen values were also toned down in 5.100.


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
Follow us on Twitter 
@CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also is it possible/useful to put someone into negative Resist values? Will they start taking more damage if we have more Pen than they have Armour?


:^)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Xarrayne said:

Also is it possible/useful to put someone into negative Resist values? Will they start taking more damage if we have more Pen than they have Armour?

I don't think it is possible to go lower than 0 resists.

For example, I've noticed on target dummies that adding armor penetration or using abilities like reveal weakness do not seem to increase damage because the target has no armor to penetrate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, VaMei said:

@thomasblair

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

While we're on the subject, what are the mitigation values for the practice dummies?

Training Dummy Mitigations:
Crushing - 50
Slashing - 50
Piercing - 0
Fire - 50
Ice  - 50
Electric - 50
Poison - 50
Disease - 50
Bleed - 0

(No clue why piercing is set to 0, someone must have been testing something)

3 hours ago, Xarrayne said:

Also is it possible/useful to put someone into negative Resist values? Will they start taking more damage if we have more Pen than they have Armour?

No, you can't go below 0 with a penetration stat.


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
Follow us on Twitter 
@CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

Training Dummy Mitigations:
Crushing - 50
Slashing - 50
Piercing - 0
Fire - 50
Ice  - 50
Electric - 50
Poison - 50
Disease - 50
Bleed - 0

Purely anecdotal but I feel like I always manage to hit target dummies much harder than other players, even leather wearers with much lower than 50% mitigations with slashing/crushing attacks. It really feels like target dummies do not have any mitigations at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, blazzen said:

Purely anecdotal but I feel like I always manage to hit target dummies much harder than other players, even leather wearers with much lower than 50% mitigations with slashing/crushing attacks. It really feels like target dummies do not have any mitigations at all. 

Can confirm anecdotal, I hit target dummies MUCH harder than players, and those players would not have 50% mitigations

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2019 at 11:48 AM, thomasblair said:

We always get the uncapped mitigation value, subtract penetration, then apply the cap again.

(example 1) If you have 47% crushing pen, and dummy has 50% crushing mitigation, you would be hitting it as if it had 3% crushing mitigation.

OR

(example 2) If you have an uncapped 100% fire mitigation (cap is 75%) , get hit with a 20% fire pen, you now have an 80% fire mitigation but still capped at 75% since you are over capped.

Mitigation is always useful, and armor pen values were also toned down in 5.100.

@thomasblairThere are 2 mitigation caps. There are the resistance caps, which are set at 35% for all classes, and there are the final mitigation caps, which are set based on class and talents. If my physical resistance is at 35% and I apply the Runecaster discipline, which gives 300 physical resist, am I getting any benefit from that? Does that 300 resist count toward my uncapped mitigation? What about if I use the Sanctuary ability? 

If not, then a secutor knight would need 40% from armor just to reach the cap.

I think it would make more sense if talents that raise the final mitigation cap also raise the resistance cap. Or better yet, do away with armor penetration entirely and just let the caps be the caps. It would be far less confusing that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2019 at 4:18 PM, blazzen said:

Purely anecdotal but I feel like I always manage to hit target dummies much harder than other players, even leather wearers with much lower than 50% mitigations with slashing/crushing attacks. It really feels like target dummies do not have any mitigations at all. 

Note that due to the excellent return from dex, plus leather training and skill tree buffs it is pretty trivial to go over the leather cap without buffs, and most buffs easily overload their cap, meaning your penetration isn't going to work as well.

Also note that players tend to have base damage reduction effects, barriers and other stuff that isn't related to armor that dummies don't have.

Is this just a general feel of damage or are you making this comparison based upon testing against a known 50% armor leather guy with no other buffs?


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Is this just a general feel of damage or are you making this comparison based upon testing against a known 50% armor leather guy with no other buffs?

Anecdotal:

Based on personal observations, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, oneply said:

Anecdotal:

Based on personal observations, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation.

It could be an anecdote about how they scrimmed in an EK to test stuff. Engaging in an experiment without peer review is also anecdotal evidence and often prone to faulty data collection due to failing to consider some variables.

Which happens a lot in this exact situation (trying to test a video game formula without advanced knowledge of the expected outcome of said formula)

 


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...