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Bellson

3 Faction Systems Don't Work

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, mandalore said:

We could just trade wins.  poorly made socks winning is often less important than ensuring my enemy loses everything. 

Possible. You’d get zero respect for it tho. And at some point you’re both gonna want the win. Plus more fun to battle it out at the end, unless you’re worried you can’t beat your allies straight up. It’s not like battling each other is going to ruin the alliance. 

Edited by oneply

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29 minutes ago, oneply said:

Possible. You’d get zero respect for it tho. And at some point you’re both gonna want the win. Plus more fun to battle it out at the end, unless you’re worried you can’t beat your allies straight up. It’s not like battling each other is going to ruin the alliance. 

You didn’t play sb did you?  If you’re expecting balanced, clean, honorable good fights then you should leave the internet with your virtue intact.  People will do anything for pixels and poorly made socks talking.  Ensuring my enemy loses is honestly as good as winning, their tears sustain me far more than any badge.  Honor and respect on the internet aren’t really a possibility in 2019.  The devs are going to be in for a rough time once this game launches.  Even the most upstanding community member is going to get mad when some bag of asshats comes and takes their hard worked assets and people tend to vent when mad.  

As for HoA fighting W, we fought them longer than we have been allied.  Some of us fought each other in SB.  It’s not like we haven’t fought each other.  There is something to be said about people wanting an alliance broken but lack the power to do it themselves.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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27 minutes ago, mandalore said:

You didn’t play sb did you?  If you’re expecting balanced, clean, honorable good fights then you should leave the internet with your virtue intact.  People will do anything for pixels and poorly made socks talking.  Ensuring my enemy loses is honestly as good as winning, their tears sustain me far more than any badge.  Honor and respect on the internet aren’t really a possibility in 2019.  The devs are going to be in for a rough time once this game launches.  Even the most upstanding community member is going to get mad when some bag of asshats comes and takes their hard worked assets and people tend to vent when mad.  

As for HoA fighting W, we fought them longer than we have been allied.  Some of us fought each other in SB.  It’s not like we haven’t fought each other.  There is something to be said about people wanting an alliance broken but lack the power to do it themselves.  

Don’t care about WHoA. Was a general reference. Toot away tho if it pleases you. 

I knew nothing of SB until this game. And I was into the genre back then. It may be a good base but repeating what already failed isn’t going to make anyone happy.

Change the goal. The only reward should be winner. Don’t win you can only leave with the gear you have on. Win and you get to take a very limited amount out besides the gear on your character. Limit number of characters an account can have in campaign (yes yes multi account blah blah, can’t stop it). Only a guild can win. And only so many players from a guild can enter into a campaign. First losers, that’s second place, have to wear a cloak of shame debuff for a month which shows a giant L, for loser, across your back. 

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a lot of people are gonna be real sad when they realize campaigns wont come down to strategy or battle skill and instead just a coin toss between the biggest alliances guilds on gets this win this campaign because only 1 guild can win, if you decide to go down this ridiculously stupid 1 guild wins route


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4 minutes ago, Staff said:

a lot of people are gonna be real sad when they realize campaigns wont come down to strategy or battle skill and instead just a coin toss between the biggest alliances guilds on gets this win this campaign because only 1 guild can win, if you decide to go down this ridiculously stupid 1 guild wins route

O yes, bring your life jackets Bc the tears are going to be deep. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, oneply said:

Don’t care about WHoA. Was a general reference. Toot away tho if it pleases you. 

I knew nothing of SB until this game. And I was into the genre back then. It may be a good base but repeating what already failed isn’t going to make anyone happy.

Change the goal. The only reward should be winner. Don’t win you can only leave with the gear you have on. Win and you get to take a very limited amount out besides the gear on your character. Limit number of characters an account can have in campaign (yes yes multi account blah blah, can’t stop it). Only a guild can win. And only so many players from a guild can enter into a campaign. First losers, that’s second place, have to wear a cloak of shame debuff for a month which shows a giant L, for loser, across your back. 

When it comes down it people are going to do anything to win so I’d get ready for that.  If you can’t win, ensuring your enemy loses more than you is a close second.  This isn’t my first rodeo in a PvP mmo (played Sb for most of it and then years on the emu’s) and when given the opportunity to win most people are gonna leap at it; regardless of honor, morale, ethics.  

People are going to Zerg, exploit, cheat, betray, lie, abuse and or harass whoever they have to to win.  It’s going to be glorious to watch. 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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23 minutes ago, mandalore said:

most people are gonna leap at it; regardless of honor, morale, ethics.  

Many folks don't consider anything in a game to have relevance to RL. I played wildstar from the start with a guy that could be described as 'holier then thou' in real life, but on the game, we actively manipulated the credd market to the point, well, anyways, its just a fantasy game. 

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Posted (edited)

It's actually amazing to me that people care enough about "winning" the current pre-alpha campaigns that they sacrifice any meaningful PvP.

People enjoy different things but the sieges and zerg rolling capture points seem to be the least interesting part of this game. The only memorable bits of this last trial for me are when we managed to find 5v5s with the clams. I can tell you from experience fighting any group of csc, w, or hoa with relatively close numbers is super fun. It just doesn't really ever happen.

People must care about the points though or the whole WHoAClam thing wouldn't exist. Three of the four guilds with numbers are on the same faction. It is clear by now that other groups aren't interested in merging to field a similar force. It just seems boring to keep things as they are unless your only interest is in the final campaign points winner. If I was in one of those three guilds I would be lobbying for a faction switch just to fight better competition but we must have different motivations in the game. This doesn't really have anything to do with the 3 faction system, just general whining about win conditions and player motivation.

Edited by smoot
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11 minutes ago, smoot said:

It's actually amazing to me that people care enough about "winning" the current pre-alpha campaigns that they sacrifice any meaningful PvP.

That goes both ways. People seem to care quite a bit about "losing" the current pre-alpha. If all the guilds that are demoralized by losing to Balance actually fought back in force, they would outnumber Balance by a large margin.


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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Jah said:

That goes both ways. People seem to care quite a bit about "losing" the current pre-alpha. If all the guilds that are demoralized by losing to Balance actually fought back in force, they would outnumber Balance by a large margin.

I actually don't care about losing at all. I'm just saying I'd like to see more fights with less than 20 people who are more or less gear maxed and decently skilled, they are what is fun to me personally. I think more of those would happen if the balance guys split up. I'm also aware we must like different things because it hasn't happened. To each their own I suppose. 

I'm going to be honest, there are only 2-3 guilds on chaos that seem to have any idea what they are doing, and most of them have < 5 members. I'm not sure combining all of them would be enough. And going back to what I personally think is fun I'm not interested in outnumbering balance, I don't want to zerg fight anyways.

Edited by smoot
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1 minute ago, smoot said:

I'm going to be honest, there are only 2-3 guilds on chaos that seem to have any idea what they are doing, and most of them have < 5 members. I'm not sure combining all of them would be enough.

Lol at 2-3 guilds with < 5 members. You do realize Chaos already outnumbers Balance, right? Add in the guilds that have stopped showing up and you'd outnumber Balance by at least 2 to 1.


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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Jah said:

Lol at 2-3 guilds with < 5 members. You do realize Chaos already outnumbers Balance, right? Add in the guilds that have stopped showing up and you'd outnumber Balance by at least 2 to 1.

Just looking at the leaderboards now Hax is clearly the outlier on Chaos. Of the top guilds only 2 have positive scores, Cursed, which is a 5 man, and uXa who has a single active player. Crem, and Sugoi are 5 or less members. STC has 2 now? BAD is a new guild we have been helping gear up, I think they have 6. I've only seen 2 or 3 corvus boys for most of the campaign. After that it really falls off I'm gear and preparedness. I don't want to be rude but most of the other groups have no meaningful impact on the campaign.

Edited by smoot
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3 minutes ago, smoot said:

Just looking at the leaderboards now Hax is clearly the outlier on Chaos. Of the top guilds only 2 have positive scores, Cursed, which is a 5 man, and uXa who has a single active player. Crem, and Sugoi are 5 or less members. BAD is a new guild we have been haloing gear up, I think they have 6. I've only seen 2 or 3 corvus boys for most of the campaign. After that it really falls off I'm gear and preparedness. I don't want to be rude but most of the other groups have no meaningful impact on the campaign.

Yep, the fact that some of the bigger and more experienced Chaos guilds have stopped showing up is what I was talking about. If they showed up Chaos would outnumber Balance by a large margin.


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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, smoot said:

Just looking at the leaderboards now Hax is clearly the outlier on Chaos. Of the top guilds only 2 have positive scores, Cursed, which is a 5 man, and uXa who has a single active player. Crem, and Sugoi are 5 or less members. STC has 2 now? BAD is a new guild we have been helping gear up, I think they have 6. I've only seen 2 or 3 corvus boys for most of the campaign. After that it really falls off I'm gear and preparedness. I don't want to be rude but most of the other groups have no meaningful impact on the campaign.

Chaos has multiple guilds that have 20+ members but they got tired of getting stomped on by a previous ally and subsequently quit. 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Jah said:

Yep, the fact that some of the bigger and more experienced Chaos guilds have stopped showing up is what I was talking about. If they showed up Chaos would outnumber Balance by a large margin.

That could be. We both know it isn't just numbers though. That's part of my point, we play for different reasons. I'm not saying one way is better. I just wouldn't expect all these small guilds to rise up, I think most of them like the smaller skirmishes like I do. I have no interest in dealing with politics or logistics but that is some people's bread and butter. I don't even know what the point of this is anymore. I think I just want to see smaller groups roaming around sometimes because I have no interest in banging around in a 15 man.

Can't blame people for bringing what they got though, hence my hope that you guys would split up and start fighting each other.

Edited by smoot
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1 minute ago, smoot said:

That could be. We both know it isn't just numbers though. That's part of my point, we play for different reasons. I'm not saying one way is better. I just wouldn't expect all these small guilds to rise up, I think most of them like the smaller skirmishes like I do. I have no interest in dealing with politics or logistics but that is some people's bread and butter. I don't even know what the point of this is anymore. I think I just want to see smaller groups roaming around sometimes because I have no interest in banging around I'm a 15 man.

I'd like to see small groups roaming around as well. I think farming in safezones (God's Reach and Temple) and Banking-from-Anywhere have really reduced the small scale open world PvP.


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3 minutes ago, smoot said:

That could be. We both know it isn't just numbers though. That's part of my point, we play for different reasons. I'm not saying one way is better. I just wouldn't expect all these small guilds to rise up, I think most of them like the smaller skirmishes like I do. I have no interest in dealing with politics or logistics but that is some people's bread and butter. I don't even know what the point of this is anymore. I think I just want to see smaller groups roaming around sometimes because I have no interest in banging around I'm a 15 man.

How is that play style (preferring smaller) going to work out when you have to free build all of your assets and the other players (guilds, not faction’s) can siege anybody and take it?  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, mandalore said:

How is that play style (preferring smaller) going to work out when you have to free build all of your assets and the other players (guilds, not faction’s) can siege anybody and take it?  

It won't! I haven't played SB (I was a UO player). I think dregs will be a huge zergfest too. I'm just here because it's the closest I can get to the old rush of UO full loot PvP. 

Edited by smoot

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according to some chaos BAD apparently has 40 active members at primetime in blue vessels, idk if this is true but if it is theyve been hiding all campaign and are effectively the largest active guild in game with hax being the 2nd, rally these numbers and youll outnumber balance significantly 


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2 minutes ago, smoot said:

It won't! I haven't played SB (I was a UO player). I think dregs will be a huge zergfest too. I'm just here because it's the closest I can get to the old rush of UO full loot PvP. 

At least you admit it.  I feel bad for 5 man guilds that expect to compete in system obviously designed for much larger forces.  The only sovereignty a guild will have is what it can maintain through force, guile, cunning and good ole shenanigans and some of these small guilds are about to get smashed. going to be miserable for them to play with no assets. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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