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Map Idea to Promote PvP

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1 hour ago, mystafyi said:

Why is it a fact that you should bring a guard? Current and past gameplay has shown that it is more efficient to gather solo. The time wasted for a player to stand around on the chance they might get attacked cannot be justified. With full paperdoll looting, I would change my stance, but alas that is not how the game is or has been to date. The ability to bank anywhere is so over the top and destroys any argument for having guards. 

disclaimer: motherloads are a separate beast and so I am not referencing them.

That's not necessarily true. There's a skill line called leadership which has several buffs to group gathering. Besides that it's almost always better to gather in groups because there's safety in numbers. If a duo gank squad has the choice between a lone target or a 3 man group, they're going for that lone target 99% of the time because they have much less risk. 

With that said, yes it's completely unrealistic to expect a combat focused non gatherer to sit around with their hands in someone else's pocket. That might sound like a plausible exchange on paper, but it will almost never happen. The only exception I might suppose would be a person to kill animals for a skinner to skin. 

The spirit banking anywhere thing is ridiculous. But this is literally pre alpha and it obviously won't be staying through the release. 

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2 hours ago, Staff said:

tbh the highest you should be able to farm in the entirety of the campaign is blues with white being GR cap, r9 and r10 should be dregs exclusives, play with the big boys if you want big boy gear 

I agree with GR being capped at white, but think you're way off about 9 and 10s being limited to Dregs. I don't see how monopolizing the strongest materials in the game to a single game mode makes sense. 

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4 hours ago, CretinActual said:

I agree with GR being capped at white, but think you're way off about 9 and 10s being limited to Dregs. I don't see how monopolizing the strongest materials in the game to a single game mode makes sense. 

That’s how the advertised it during the Kickstarter.  There’s only 3 planned campaign styles (gods reach, faction and dregs).  Gods reach is intended for noobies.  Factions is intended for casual play/less organized guilds.  Dregs is supposed to be for the big fish.   That’s not hyperbole, that’s the intended players for each CW type.  Should they have the same resource quality knowing one is for noobs, one is for casuals and one is for the most organized guilds looking for gvg?


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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52 minutes ago, mandalore said:

 Should they have the same resource quality knowing one is for noobs, one is for casuals and one is for the most organized guilds looking for gvg?

Yes Mandalore. Just like I've said several times on all of my posts we should be able to get epics from GR. Thank you for not misrepresenting what I've wrote 

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36 minutes ago, CretinActual said:

Yes Mandalore. Just like I've said several times on all of my posts we should be able to get epics from GR. Thank you for not misrepresenting what I've wrote 

Why?  That goes against what they have already stated as their plan.  Why should it be altered?  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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27 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Why?  That goes against what they have already stated as their plan.  Why should it be altered?  

This. 

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4ec1bb721608cac8d1a40e3aef39a17a_origina

These player-owned and player-managed kingdoms are the only permanent (non-time limited) Worlds. They are complete, functional Worlds - but lack resource factories (such as quarries, mines and mills) and produce only common reagents. Players rule these Home Worlds as Monarchs and can grant land and titles to other players in exchange for oaths of fealty. Levy taxes, enforce trade restrictions, and set the PvP rules within your domain.

8899064045f7562b4e6e89558ed3d54d_origina

The proving grounds for Order, Balance, and Chaos. Players join one of three divine Factions and battle for control of the World. The goal for Order and Chaos is to capture as much territory as possible before the World is destroyed. The goal for Balance is to ensure there in no clear victor between Order and Chaos.

f5fb8fcfad5b87775f83f8e6cc08d372_origina

These Worlds are more deadly and the stakes are higher. The alliances of the Gods hold no sway here. The followers of the twelve Gods vie individually for the Throne. 

e6d20d59f148914bb952ab132369a54d_origina

The Shadow Worlds lie closer to the Hunger, where even the Gods dare not tread. On these Worlds it's Guild vs Guild competition for the abundance of resources and rich cache of souls.

31189217d0e24b6b4758a05baba8da6a_origina

On the razor-thin edge of the Hunger lies the Dregs... Worlds utterly drained of warmth, about to shatter into dust. Alliances between Guilds are weak and brittle. These every-man-for-himself Worlds are deadly and unforgiving - yet they yield the greatest reward for those who can survive.


IhhQKY6.gif

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1 minute ago, Jah said:

4ec1bb721608cac8d1a40e3aef39a17a_origina

These player-owned and player-managed kingdoms are the only permanent (non-time limited) Worlds. They are complete, functional Worlds - but lack resource factories (such as quarries, mines and mills) and produce only common reagents. Players rule these Home Worlds as Monarchs and can grant land and titles to other players in exchange for oaths of fealty. Levy taxes, enforce trade restrictions, and set the PvP rules within your domain.

8899064045f7562b4e6e89558ed3d54d_origina

The proving grounds for Order, Balance, and Chaos. Players join one of three divine Factions and battle for control of the World. The goal for Order and Chaos is to capture as much territory as possible before the World is destroyed. The goal for Balance is to ensure there in no clear victor between Order and Chaos.

f5fb8fcfad5b87775f83f8e6cc08d372_origina

These Worlds are more deadly and the stakes are higher. The alliances of the Gods hold no sway here. The followers of the twelve Gods vie individually for the Throne. 

e6d20d59f148914bb952ab132369a54d_origina

The Shadow Worlds lie closer to the Hunger, where even the Gods dare not tread. On these Worlds it's Guild vs Guild competition for the abundance of resources and rich cache of souls.

31189217d0e24b6b4758a05baba8da6a_origina

On the razor-thin edge of the Hunger lies the Dregs... Worlds utterly drained of warmth, about to shatter into dust. Alliances between Guilds are weak and brittle. These every-man-for-himself Worlds are deadly and unforgiving - yet they yield the greatest reward for those who can survive.

To be fair gods reach in that is current faction campaigns. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Marth said:

To be fair gods reach in that is current faction campaigns. 

I mostly just quoted it to show that the resources are supposed to be limited in low risk places, and best in the highest risk places. It is a foundational concept in Crowfall that should not be abandoned.

Edited by Jah

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Are resources in the campaign world better than they are in gods reach?   I stand by that for the pre-alpha testing GR as is functions as it should. You cannot get the best stuff their, and because it's a testing phase and not the game, you want people to be able to pick it up and hit the ground running in a semi safe environment. You cannot begin to competitively gear to fight a purple vessel, purple equipment guy by playing gods reach. You have to go to the campaign to do that.  Or if you could, the astronomical amount of time it would take makes it very unrewarding, which you cannot.  

I think what the chaos players are doing is an example of something that is only bad for the game because it's such unrewarding and unengaging gameplay and is not what this game is about and potentially is misrepresenting it as a loot simulator.

 These two reasons are why I believe that incentivising players into the campaigns is the answer.    You are right that it feels like nothing pushes these players into the Campaigns.  I say pull them in, don't push.

 


-The Legion shall forever be reborn

 

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3 hours ago, Jah said:

I mostly just quoted it to show that the resources are supposed to be limited in low risk places, and best in the highest risk places. It is a foundational concept in Crowfall that should not be abandoned.

Gods reach should be R5 imo tops.
R10s should only be located in the forests and Ravines

R9s Should be located in tiles surrounded the Ravines/Forest

R8s should be located Around keeps and forts (Forts should each have an abundant resource, So you get forts with Wood around another with stone around another with Ore around and another with animals around. This is to add differences to forts and give some more reason to capture than others (I would even split them further into forts gte one resource type around them so one may be all iron in the vacinity another might be all Birch and so on)

R7s should be the main resources all other tiles with maybe the occasional R9/8 tile spot outside those spots.


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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39 minutes ago, veeshan said:

Gods reach should be R5 imo tops.
R10s should only be located in the forests and Ravines

R9s Should be located in tiles surrounded the Ravines/Forest

R8s should be located Around keeps and forts (Forts should each have an abundant resource, So you get forts with Wood around another with stone around another with Ore around and another with animals around. This is to add differences to forts and give some more reason to capture than others (I would even split them further into forts gte one resource type around them so one may be all iron in the vacinity another might be all Birch and so on)

R7s should be the main resources all other tiles with maybe the occasional R9/8 tile spot outside those spots.

R5 is too high for God's Reach, and there is no need for the campaign to be full of R7. Even R7 should be spread around.

And R10 should be Dregs only.


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5 minutes ago, Jah said:

R5 is too high for God's Reach, and there is no need for the campaign to be full of R7. Even R7 should be spread around.

And R10 should be Dregs only.

^


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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I think they should get the Dregs and other systems like embargo, refining, caravans into testing first -  and then do the risk vs reward balance across the game as a whole. Waste of time to try to fine tune it right now.


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6 hours ago, ConstantineX said:

Are resources in the campaign world better than they are in gods reach?   I stand by that for the pre-alpha testing GR as is functions as it should. You cannot get the best stuff their, and because it's a testing phase and not the game, you want people to be able to pick it up and hit the ground running in a semi safe environment. You cannot begin to competitively gear to fight a purple vessel, purple equipment guy by playing gods reach. You have to go to the campaign to do that.  Or if you could, the astronomical amount of time it would take makes it very unrewarding, which you cannot.  

I think what the chaos players are doing is an example of something that is only bad for the game because it's such unrewarding and unengaging gameplay and is not what this game is about and potentially is misrepresenting it as a loot simulator.

 These two reasons are why I believe that incentivising players into the campaigns is the answer.    You are right that it feels like nothing pushes these players into the Campaigns.  I say pull them in, don't push.

 

you can reach the point in gear where most of balance is right now in GR aside from the bodies since theyre unfarmable in GR , its faster to do it in campaign but its doable in GR, which is fundamentally wrong, you should NEVER be able to reach the same level as someone who plays in a tougher campaign without going there yourself or buying from those who play it.

You are right this is a testing phase, a testing phase of every system crowfall has, due to the amount of playtime and how players play this is beta level feedback theyre getting rn in pre alpha, we are simulating a live enviroment, which means we need to test every part of a live enviroment, that includes not having safe spaces like GR, as for what chaos is doing, thats a whole nother post and a 50 page report on the psychology and ideology of the 2 factions

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@Staff. Graveyards are not in GR as you said. So in order to upgrade your common vessel you have to go to campaign.  So no you literally, physically, could not ever reach the same level as someone in the campaign. And I saw a quote somewhere that character power was supposed to be 1/3 gear 1/3 levels and talents 1/3 vessel. Who knows how meritful that is but I watched a streamer craft a vessel with +112 dex alone, not to mention leveling bonuses. I've never seen Items doing that.  And with reward being a function of Net/cost. Cost being time. Gods reach isn't a rewarding choice to farm in. I can make a million dollars at McDonald's or a million as a lawyer. One does it much faster and I would argue is for that expediency much more rewarding. 


-The Legion shall forever be reborn

 

qliewl5.png

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5 minutes ago, ConstantineX said:

@Staff. Graveyards are not in GR as you said. So in order to upgrade your common vessel you have to go to campaign.  So no you literally, physically, could not ever reach the same level as someone in the campaign. And I saw a quote somewhere that character power was supposed to be 1/3 gear 1/3 levels and talents 1/3 vessel. Who knows how meritful that is but I watched a streamer craft a vessel with +112 dex alone, not to mention leveling bonuses. I've never seen Items doing that.  And with reward being a function of Net/cost. Cost being time. Gods reach isn't a rewarding choice to farm in. I can make a million dollars at McDonald's or a million as a lawyer. One does it much faster and I would argue is for that expediency much more rewarding. 

1: YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SPEND 5 MINUTES IN CAMPAIGN AND BE CAMPAIGN READY

2: your quote is very wrong and probably from a chaos player, real power is very different

3: 112 dex is chump stats and not as powerful nor hard to get on a vessel, dropped weapons will give ap equal to 112 dex easily 

4: leveling bonuses for higher vessels is like 10 more attribute points which is nothing

5: no risk of losing anything is more valuable to many players then faster farming

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Posted (edited)

@Staff 

1. If you can't be ready for a campaign without entering it it's one of those loops that offers no entry. And I cannot at this point in playing even gather all the materials to make a vessel so it's more than 5 minutes I promise.

2. I think it was attributed to Blair from early concept, just part of the idea they were initially aiming at and adjusted.

3. I haven't had a hard time capping AP so even though equivocal power of stats to AP makes that seem like it's not as valuable, it is more valuable. 

4.outside my experience entirely I will take your word.

5. That's a player psychology problem their, and I feel sorry for them because loot simulators are like going to work in my opinion. Gods reach is a tool to help someone like myself who hasnt played since the first initial tests when it was confessor and knight with 2 abilities and 3fps get familiar with the game and the way it's mechanics work before stepping out into the campaign world so underheated I couldn't win a fight if I knew what I was doing, which I don't.    I'm not arguing long live Gods reach, I'm saying it's a useful tool, and to take it away or neuter it entirely so that some loot simulator folks can't abuse it will do more overall harm than good. 

I am saying don't launch with it, at all, or on launch give a new player 20 hours play time in there or something that expires to get familiar. 

 

 

Edited by ConstantineX

-The Legion shall forever be reborn

 

qliewl5.png

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10 minutes ago, ConstantineX said:

@Staff 

1. If you can't be ready for a campaign without entering it it's one of those loops that offers no entry. And I cannot at this point in playing even gather all the materials to make a vessel so it's more than 5 minutes I promise.

2. I think it was attributed to Blair from early concept, just part of the idea they were initially aiming at and adjusted.

3. I haven't had a hard time capping AP so even though equivocal power of stats to AP makes that seem like it's not as valuable, it is more valuable. 

4.outside my experience entirely I will take your word.

5. That's a player psychology problem their, and I feel sorry for them because loot simulators are like going to work in my opinion. Gods reach is a tool to help someone like myself who hasnt played since the first initial tests when it was confessor and knight with 2 abilities and 3fps get familiar with the game and the way it's mechanics work before stepping out into the campaign world so underheated I couldn't win a fight if I knew what I was doing, which I don't.    I'm not arguing long live Gods reach, I'm saying it's a useful tool, and to take it away or neuter it entirely so that some loot simulator folks can't abuse it will do more overall harm than good. 

I am saying don't launch with it, at all, or on launch give a new player 20 hours play time in there or something that expires to get familiar. 

 

 

1: it takes 8 minutes for graves to respawn last time i farmed them, at most youll spend 16 minutes unless youre unlucky or farming for a centaur to get all the parts, then you export them to gr, farm minerals in gr, build in gr, level in gr, import blue gear from gr into camp with blue vessel ez pz campaign ready

3: stats on crafted gear is much more valuable then vessel stats and adds so much more, all you need is a good crafter to overcome any vessel difference, id show you my staff as proof but thats not allowed

5: it needs to be neutered to the point where whites are the only things that drop in in it, greens and blue should be reserved for factions while purple and gold should be reserved for dregs or else there is no reason to go further, there is no reason to get better or take risks which is what this game is all about

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@ConstantineX you seem to be confusing being campaign ready with being campaign optimized.

youre not going to be truly competitive until you are campaign optimized.  For me, this means blue vessel, blue jewelry and either drop gear or blue crafted.

None of this should be available on the GR.  The King dropping a blue item would be fine.  The rest is white and green.  GRs should have graveyards that drop white and green as well.  

Some sort of crafted gear and a white crafted (miles better than basic) or green vessel, some green warrribe gear and a weapon of some sort.

That’s campaign ready, because it’s the top of GR.  

Its not a solo game.  In a guild that would be perfectly fine to come to CW and get suited out.  I’d take that person to siege as a recruit.

 

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