Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
veeshan

Suggestion for how pve bosses spawn

Recommended Posts

Here a quick suggestion for pve bosses spawn mechanics to hopefully promote pvp. 

 

Don't have bosses on a respawn timer but instead have normal mobs act as a place holder (either all of them or a couple in a camp) commander will of course have a higher spawn rates than say chiefs. 

This way people have a reason to kill trash mobs trying to trigger a boss mob to spawn instead of a small group running around spending 5 min in a camp before moving to the next one. 

This should promote some pve in the campaign and in turn promote some pvp


Veeshan Midst of UXA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, veeshan said:

Here a quick suggestion for pve bosses spawn mechanics to hopefully promote pvp. 

All this adding of PvE systems in the vail attempt to promote PvP isn't working. Eventually(one could argue we have already hit that tipping point) we will have a PvE centric game. Players pursuing PvE activities tend to want less PvP since that reduces efficiency. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pve activity give content to pvp players since people in the world farming. Instead of running group around hoping to run into another group


Veeshan Midst of UXA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Duffy said:

Except when your PvEing you don’t want to PvP, the clashing of goals discourages the interaction you desire.

The whole point of the PvE elements in a PvP game are to provide drivers for conflict. People who want PvE without the threat of PvP should honestly play a different game.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jah said:

The whole point of the PvE elements in a PvP game are to provide drivers for conflict. People who want PvE without the threat of PvP should honestly play a different game.

 Depending on what side of the equation you’re on for a given day dictates your goal. If you happen to be PvEing, your goal is to avoid the risk of PvP. If you’re looking to PvP, you have no risk and get annoyed that you’re bored.

This happens because the two goals are the opposite of each other even if you accept the caveat of the game these actions take place in. I’m fine with the risk of PvP, I still don’t want to run into a fight when I’m farming, ergo I work to avoid it thus negating someone else’s desire to PvP me.

You can complain that it shouldn’t be that way or that people should play another game. And yet here we are seeing the same old thing happen over and over again and everyone acts likes it’s some big mystery or surprise.

Edited by Duffy

lPoLZtm.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Duffy said:

Your confusing desires versus goals.

No, I am not. I understand the motivation to avoid getting killed while trying to accomplish PvE goals. That is to be expected.

I am talking about game mechanics. The game mechanics can and should be designed so that people attempting to accomplish PvE goals are a driver for PvP.

The clash of goals doesn't discourage PvP, it promotes it.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jah said:

I am talking about game mechanics. The game mechanics can and should be designed so that people attempting to accomplish PvE goals are a driver for PvP.

The clash of goals doesn't discourage PvP, it promotes it.

trying to design game mechanics that goes contrary to human nature will fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

trying to design game mechanics that goes contrary to human nature will fail.

The desire to thwart your opponent, and avoid being thwarted by him, is also human nature. This aspect of human nature is successfully engaged by countless games.

The player with the ball in a typical sport does not want to lose the ball. They want to score. Their opponents want to stop them. This promotes competitive conflict and it is a good thing. Such a sport doesn't go contrary to human nature, it engages it.

Conflict between players that have different goals and desires is a good thing in a PvP MMO.

Edited by Jah

IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jah said:

The desire to thwart your opponent, and avoid being thwarted by him, is also human nature. This aspect of human nature is successfully engaged by countless games.

The player with the ball in a typical sport does not want to lose the ball. They want to score. Their opponents want to stop them. This promotes competitive conflict and it is a good thing. Such a sport doesn't go contrary to human nature, it engages it.

Conflict between players that have different goals and desires is a good thing in a PvP MMO.

I think we are not on the same wavelength here. I understand what your saying, but when folks are doing a PvE activity in game they are grinding for a drop or xp or resources or whatever their goal is. PvP detracts from the efficiency of doing that PvE goal. Both parties are playing 2 different games with different goals. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I think we are not on the same wavelength here. I understand what your saying, but when folks are doing a PvE activity in game they are grinding for a drop or xp or resources or whatever their goal is. PvP detracts from the efficiency of doing that PvE goal. Both parties are playing 2 different games with different goals. 

I agree that both parties have different goals. And I am saying the fact that they are pursuing those two different goals in the same pvp sandbox is good thing. The conflict between people that want to farm and people who want to kill farmers is one of the things that makes open world pvp fun.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im amused you alluded to an analogy of team game with even sides, set rules and defined playing area to try to explain why play to crush finding and killing farmers is just like a competitive sport. (Spoilers they are not at all the same). A better analogy would be if the opposing team could show up to our practice with twice as many people, steal our ball and break out legs, and then get declared the winners.

Again, I dont care that theirs risk and PvP. But I'm not gonna pretend the goals of the activities magically align, cause they don't. Which is one of the root problems of sandbox games and why you always run into this conversation about sheep vs wolves and how fair or not fair it is etc... You can either acknowledge that maybe their's something to the root of the argument, or you can keep claiming everyone is wrong and you don't understand why this keeps happening.

If only we would just be better real PvP sandbox players!!! /s

Edited by Duffy

lPoLZtm.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Duffy said:

Im amused you alluded to an analogy of team game with even sides, set rules and defined playing area to try to explain why play to crush finding and killing farmers is just like a competitive sport.

I did not say that sandbox pvp is just like a competitive sport. I simply used sport as an example to show how normal it is for players to have conflicting goals in games.

The player who is being chased doesn't want to be caught, but that doesn't mean chasing games are bad or doomed to failure.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Jah said:

The player who is being chased doesn't want to be caught, but that doesn't mean chasing games are bad or doomed to failure.

Chasing games work just fine. In those type games the chaser loses if they cannot catch the prey. It would work just fine in crowfall if it was structured differently. The gatherers game loop has nothing to do with being chased. Their game is to go out and gather and return to craft or whatnot. Being caught or chased is not part of that gathering game loop, other then its a hazard to be avoided. I think you are stuck on the mouse interacting with the cat being part of the mouses game loop, and that is not the case. The Cat is the only one that needs another player and a chase encounter to complete loop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mystafyi said:

Being caught or chased is not part of that gathering game loop, other then its a hazard to be avoided. I think you are stuck on the mouse interacting with the cat being part of the mouses game loop, and that is not the case. The Cat is the only one that needs another player and a chase encounter to complete loop.

The threat of being killed is very much part of the gathering game loop. The mice need cats to complete the pvp sandbox farming game loop.

This is a PvP game, and it was always pitched as a PvP game. PvP, or at least the threat of it, is part of harvesting.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of a PVE boss being triggered by some player activity (killing lower mobs, sacrifice, capturing an outpost, etc).

Another approach to dynamic spawns could be to make a boss spawn a random event with a global announcement "The Great Wyvern has been spotted in XX Zone, head there to claim it's treasure!" so rather than a farming/grinding activity it becomes a focused PvP event.


tiPrpwh.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, miraluna said:

Another approach to dynamic spawns could be to make a boss spawn a random event with a global announcement "The Great Wyvern has been spotted in XX Zone, head there to claim it's treasure!" so rather than a farming/grinding activity it becomes a focused PvP event.

I think this is best. The map is insanely large to be searching every camp for a gank vs just go to the boss event. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Jah said:

The threat of being killed is very much part of the gathering game loop. The mice need cats to complete the pvp sandbox farming game loop.

This is a PvP game, and it was always pitched as a PvP game. PvP, or at least the threat of it, is part of harvesting.

Consider this what if there was a PvE game that had roaming stronger mobs, Patrol mobs for example. Game since Everquest had higher level mobs that randomly roam the zone and will woop any unaware players who arnt paying attention while they level in the zone. WoW had fel Reavers in BC for example, Everquest almost every zone had a random NPC that would woop your butt roaming the place.
I remember a time when i was playing a human necromancer in Qeynos the human starter city i was running through town and turns out there a single mob adruid that also walks around they city it turns out druids are not a fan of Necromancers and he killed me in like 3 hits you also lost XP on death in that game too so it was a penalty of about an 30-60 min of XP loss. Consider players in crowfall the same but a little less predictable and you basicly have the same thing.
the 2nd zone out from Qeynos was quynos hills (lvl 5-15 zone) with a roaming lvl 35 ranger that would kill anyone she saw killing an animal the wolfs and bears were KoS in the zone aswell so that was fun. was also a lvl 20 odd necro mob that would kill anyone but shadowknight, necro and i believe bards for sdome reason.
I can go on there are so many of these things in a PvE game that finction the same as players would in Crowfall, Any giant mobs, Griffons in karana, My favorit were yes of the beholders that would agro you charm and if a patrolling guard agroed the eye when you were charm you would then get kiled by the guard cause the mob would have you attack the guard since you were its pet :P lol

Another note: The Cats (PvPers) increase the value of your Resources and NPC drops because there a risk involved that it unsafe which drives your market value of goods up so a good PvEer or harvesters who can farm effectively avoiding being killed will be pullijng in more coins than those who cant. Prices generaly come down to supply vs demand so if supplies is lower due to pvpers you can get more coins for farming better than other PvE players

 

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Marth said:

I think this is best. The map is insanely large to be searching every camp for a gank vs just go to the boss event. 

That be a thing for more like unique world bosses rather than camp bosses imo.

How ever this kinda of mob spawning announcement can cause an uncle bob scenario depending on its loot tables. Since often the more geared side at the time will generaly always get it since everyone knows about it.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally Ive stopped roaming to find people...

 

Maps are too large, too many valueble ressources spread out sll over the place and most notebly in the temple area.

 

When someone is found and engaged on they bank everything.

 

So One could say that the harvesters have all the tools to safely preform their craft, effectively not needing protection nor scouts.

 

While I do realize that we have still large and important aspects of the game missing - the state of the game is still that especially the size of the maps are too large, encounters are often extremely random.  The game dont need to generate more content - they need to limit access to ressources so there is fighting over them.

 

Yes of course more content is needed in the larger scale but with what the Alpha is presently capable of is quite amasing, I just think ppl want more random encounters than running from PvE spawn to PvE spawn hopeing to stumble upon someone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...