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Angelmar

The End of Nightcapping--Congrats ACE

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, oneply said:

If the “solution” is, they don’t play anymore, then yes I agree with you. Cause that’s really all that’s changed. 

It’s sounds like you aren’t aware of the siege window changes that this thread is about. It’s not possible to take 12 forts and 150 outposts overnight anymore.

Edited by Jah

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7 minutes ago, Jah said:

It’s sounds like you aren’t aware of the siege window changes that this thread are about. It’s not possible to take 12 forts and 150 outposts overnight anymore.

Fully aware. You refuse to acknowledge the obvious cause it would mean going against your own narrative. 

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17 minutes ago, oneply said:

Fully aware. You refuse to acknowledge the obvious cause it would mean going against your own narrative. 

I don't know what you are talking about. This thread is testing feedback about recent changes to the siege schedules for forts and keeps, and the reduced number of outposts.


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It feels like the double siege day is a bit of a bust. There were 8-12 people on last time for Chaos. I wouldn't mind seeing one on Saturday and one on Sunday.

The forts that are open for multiple hours seem to be pretty dead. The current trend is to mount an attack with ten minutes or less. You are almost at a disadvantage if you cap a fort early.

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Posted (edited)

The new siege changes are really good for the following:

 

1. Not having to play Crowfall like a job standing in capture points to remain competitive because 66% of the total holdings flip overnight.

2. Concentrating large keep battles to specific days means that it is more likely for more fights to break out (it's a lot easier to commit to 3/4 days a week than 7 days), more people showing up to each individual siege guaranteeing more fights also incentivizes people to log in.  Low siege participation days end up with hitting bane trees and logging out, which kills motivation to log in for the next siege.  Saturday might have a bit of an issue here though, but I will say one cool thing about Double Siege Saturday is that it makes holding keeps with high capture bonus a tense situation, since the attackers have 2 chances to flip it that day.

3.  Reducing the number of outposts drastically was a great idea.  It makes it more likely for conflict to happen over said outposts and it doesn't take literally 15 people 4+ hours to capture them all.

 

The new siege changes cause the following problems from what I've seen:

1.  The 7+ hour long single fort vulnerability windows seem to have demonstrated a problem all fort lockout timers have: The last ~10-15% of the vulnerability window is all that matters.  Why would I ever bother fighting over a fort when it has 4 hours and 30 minutes remaining, as the attacker or the defender?  Walk in, bust down the wall, flip it in 20 seconds, get on with my life.  Takeaway: We need a reason to want to keep forts besides points per turn, and other activities to drive PVP outside of vulnerability windows (caravans etc).

An additional stopgap measure for this, in my mind, is to instead have the ~7AM CST - 7PM CST window have two forts in the same zone vulnerable.  Make them a 1 or 2 hour rotating schedule.

Example:

  Monday's 7AM - 7 PM forts: A & B 

       7AM - 9AM: Fort A

       9AM - 11AM: Fort B

       11AM - 1PM: Fort A

Tuesday's 7 AM - 7 PM forts: C & D

        7AM - 9AM: Fort C

       9AM - 11AM: Fort D

       11AM - 1PM: Fort C

This way it creates a sort of "warzone" in one of the areas of the map, and it still keeps the number of nightcap point flipping low.  It doesn't completely solve the problem of the last 15% of the vuln window being what matters, but I don't really have a good way to solve that issue.  It might just be an issue with a casual PVP format like Factions are supposed to be.

 

Either way, great job ACE.  These siege changes have revitalized my interest in the game where after Trial of Cybele I was very much considering taking a break.

 

Edited by Hungry

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1 hour ago, oneply said:

If the “solution” is, they don’t play anymore, then yes I agree with you. Cause that’s really all that’s changed. 

And I do like that afking during capping is no longer the ideal use of time. 

There is nothing to do during the night . So if you do not play at the active times then the game is dead and boring. The map and siege schedules were designed by Anglemar and Blazzen so of course they support it. IMO Ace caved to the -W- since balance streams and makes the most videos. It saves them on advertisement. Just my two cents.. uXa will be back. 

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37 minutes ago, smoot said:

It feels like the double siege day is a bit of a bust. There were 8-12 people on last time for Chaos. I wouldn't mind seeing one on Saturday and one on Sunday.

The forts that are open for multiple hours seem to be pretty dead. The current trend is to mount an attack with ten minutes or less. You are almost at a disadvantage if you cap a fort early.

The hour long mine windows in SB had the same problem.  People wouldn’t contest the mines till the last 10-15 min so it created a hurry up and wait rally if defending.


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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16 minutes ago, dolmar said:

There is nothing to do during the night . So if you do not play at the active times then the game is dead and boring. The map and siege schedules were designed by Anglemar and Blazzen so of course they support it. IMO Ace caved to the -W- since balance streams and makes the most videos. It saves them on advertisement. Just my two cents.. uXa will be back. 

Aren’t most the concurrent players on from 1800-2300?  I like how in one sentence you blame Angelmar and Blazzen, two guild leaders from opposing faction then you immediately jump to blaming the enemy faction that your guild members were kicked from (left, whatever) that also happens to be dominated by a faction that has crushed any hope of victory that you might have been clinging too.  So which is it?  Is it balances fault?  Is it Blazzen and Angelmar?  You can’t reasonably  think that a minority of overnight players should have most of the power over the majority of a servers player base. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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26 minutes ago, dolmar said:

There is nothing to do during the night . So if you do not play at the active times then the game is dead and boring.

It is still possible to cap all of the Outposts over night (there are just fewer of them). And there is always at least one Fort that is active. And of course, it is still possible to farm over night.

What is no longer possible is to cap all 12 Forts and 150 Outposts while most of the population is offline.


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8 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Aren’t most the concurrent players on from 1800-2300?  I like how in one sentence you blame Angelmar and Blazzen, two guild leaders from opposing faction then you immediately jump to blaming the enemy faction that your guild members were kicked from (left, whatever) that also happens to be dominated by a faction that has crushed any hope of victory that you might have been clinging too.  So which is it?  Is it balances fault?  Is it Blazzen and Angelmar?  You can’t reasonably  think that a minority of overnight players should have most of the power over the majority of a servers player base. 

Sorry bud not gonna bite on that. We just are not having fun in this current iteration of the game. -HuGz-

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Just now, dolmar said:

Sorry bud not gonna bite on that. We just are not having fun in this current iteration of the game. -HuGz-

Have you had fun in any iteration?  I’m a doomsayer and pretty critical of CF (ask Krakken) but even I enjoy what little time I do play.  I still think the game will consume its own pop but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel for CF launching (May 2029).


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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2 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Have you had fun in any iteration?  I’m a doomsayer and pretty critical of CF (ask Krakken) but even I enjoy what little time I do play.  I still think the game will consume its own pop but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel for CF launching (May 2029).

I have had fun . I've had a lot of fun and i still have high hope for the game. I enjoy fighting with and against most the old school guilds in this game. I do think that ACE needs to make the game they envisioned and stop pandering to a partial test community. 

I just hit a point where I just did not want to do this patch. Its to little to drag me in . I feel they are behind the curve on getting the game out. It reeks of scope creep.

I like you most likely are heavily invested in Crowfall and hope it comes to what we all dream of it to be. Its just not there and seems wishywashy at the moment. 

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26 minutes ago, mandalore said:

The hour long mine windows in SB had the same problem.  People wouldn’t contest the mines till the last 10-15 min so it created a hurry up and wait rally if defending.

Yeah I recall, didn't know how to solve the problem then either lol.

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34 minutes ago, dolmar said:

There is nothing to do during the night . So if you do not play at the active times then the game is dead and boring. The map and siege schedules were designed by Anglemar and Blazzen so of course they support it. IMO Ace caved to the -W- since balance streams and makes the most videos. It saves them on advertisement. Just my two cents.. uXa will be back. 

Nice spin as always Dolmar.  Good that you omitted Blazzen is a GL of a Chaos guild.

For all the folks concerned re: overnight content.  I suggest you run the numbers and put in some time thinking through the changes.

All Outposts are now worth the same as all the keeps (due to nerfs to keep values and buffs to outposts).  

The 3 ppl online at 5am EST can now full cap the 48 Outposts (down from 150) in 30s each (instead of 10 minutes) and have equal influence over the CW as the 100+ ppl that show up for sieges.

These values may be too favorable to Outposts, but folks saying they cannot effect the CW result as a 1-2 man crew at any hour of the day are just ignorant of how the scoring works.

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2 minutes ago, Angelmar said:

Nice spin as always Dolmar.  Good that you omitted Blazzen is a GL of a Chaos guild.

For all the folks concerned re: overnight content.  I suggest you run the numbers and put in some time thinking through the changes.

All Outposts are now worth the same as all the keeps (due to nerfs to keep values and buffs to outposts).  

The 3 ppl online at 5am EST can now full cap the 48 Outposts (down from 150) in 30s each (instead of 10 minutes) and have equal influence over the CW as the 100+ ppl that show up for sieges.

These values may be too favorable to Outposts, but folks saying they cannot effect the CW result as a 1-2 man crew at any hour of the day are just ignorant of how the scoring works.

Blazzan has been running a alt account in order and not in chaos actively playing in nearly a year. I mean no offence Anglemar . I think your a good guy but, you know me well enough to know that i don't do politics . I am not good at it. We will be back once the game drags me back in. Much love to you and yours .

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1 hour ago, Hungry said:

The new siege changes are really good for the following:

 

1. Not having to play Crowfall like a job standing in capture points to remain competitive because 66% of the total holdings flip overnight.

2. Concentrating large keep battles to specific days means that it is more likely for more fights to break out (it's a lot easier to commit to 3/4 days a week than 7 days), more people showing up to each individual siege guaranteeing more fights also incentivizes people to log in.  Low siege participation days end up with hitting bane trees and logging out, which kills motivation to log in for the next siege.  Saturday might have a bit of an issue here though, but I will say one cool thing about Double Siege Saturday is that it makes holding keeps with high capture bonus a tense situation, since the attackers have 2 chances to flip it that day.

3.  Reducing the number of outposts drastically was a great idea.  It makes it more likely for conflict to happen over said outposts and it doesn't take literally 15 people 4+ hours to capture them all.

 

The new siege changes cause the following problems from what I've seen:

1.  The 7+ hour long single fort vulnerability windows seem to have demonstrated a problem all fort lockout timers have: The last ~10-15% of the vulnerability window is all that matters.  Why would I ever bother fighting over a fort when it has 4 hours and 30 minutes remaining, as the attacker or the defender?  Walk in, bust down the wall, flip it in 20 seconds, get on with my life.  Takeaway: We need a reason to want to keep forts besides points per turn, and other activities to drive PVP outside of vulnerability windows (caravans etc).

An additional stopgap measure for this, in my mind, is to instead have the ~7AM CST - 7PM CST window have two forts in the same zone vulnerable.  Make them a 1 or 2 hour rotating schedule.

Example:

  Monday's 7AM - 7 PM forts: A & B 

       7AM - 9AM: Fort A

       9AM - 11AM: Fort B

       11AM - 1PM: Fort A

Tuesday's 7 AM - 7 PM forts: C & D

        7AM - 9AM: Fort C

       9AM - 11AM: Fort D

       11AM - 1PM: Fort C

This way it creates a sort of "warzone" in one of the areas of the map, and it still keeps the number of nightcap point flipping low.  It doesn't completely solve the problem of the last 15% of the vuln window being what matters, but I don't really have a good way to solve that issue.  It might just be an issue with a casual PVP format like Factions are supposed to be.

Most of this I agree with. Especially the bolded part. 

On #2, at least in CC, Saturday is probably consistently our lowest turnout. And I feel like that’s several other chaos guilds too. Players I see all week long I sometimes see farming in the morning and that’s it. By noon must of us are out.

I also don’t understand where the “thrill” of defending a keep twice comes from. Chaos consistently doesn’t field enough players to even take a defended keep for either of those sieges times. 

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32 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Have you had fun in any iteration?  I’m a doomsayer and pretty critical of CF (ask Krakken) but even I enjoy what little time I do play.  I still think the game will consume its own pop but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel for CF launching (May 2029).

So why encourage the behavior that will expedite its failure?

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3 minutes ago, oneply said:

Most of this I agree with. Especially the bolded part. 

On #2, at least in CC, Saturday is probably consistently our lowest turnout. And I feel like that’s several other chaos guilds too. Players I see all week long I sometimes see farming in the morning and that’s it. By noon must of us are out.

I also don’t understand where the “thrill” of defending a keep twice comes from. Chaos consistently doesn’t field enough players to even take a defended keep for either of those sieges times. 

I also agree that turnout seems low for Saturday afternoons.  I am not sure if this is going to be a consistent problem for Factions, or just an issue with the low population of the game right now in general.  It's hard to say, but I actually would sort of prefer a siege on Saturday and Sunday or if the early Saturday siege was moved back a bit.  There is only a 4 hour gap between the two sieges and people have to go and Do poorly made socks before the next one.

 

The thrill of defending a keep twice comes in when that keep matters, and in sandbox PVP stakes are what makes the game worth playing.  The last Saturday of the last campaign the score difference between Balance and Chaos could have been made up by one keep capture, of which Saturday was one of the last days it had to be defended, so it had to be defended twice to achieve victory.  If we have to defend these keeps twice today or else we lose, then that is a lot more exciting than if we only had to defend them once. 

 

In the current state of the factions that might not hold true, but as a system that is a potential benefit.  Personally I wouldn't mind if there was only one siege on Saturday, just giving feedback as to how the schedule has affected my play and attitude toward the game.  Guild and Faction politics are its own whole separate can of worms that siege schedules aren't really involved in.

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