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Angelmar

The End of Nightcapping--Congrats ACE

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, oneply said:

Most of this I agree with. Especially the bolded part. 

On #2, at least in CC, Saturday is probably consistently our lowest turnout. And I feel like that’s several other chaos guilds too. Players I see all week long I sometimes see farming in the morning and that’s it. By noon must of us are out.

I also don’t understand where the “thrill” of defending a keep twice comes from. Chaos consistently doesn’t field enough players to even take a defended keep for either of those sieges times. 

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of double Saturday siege.

Maybe when population is bigger.

Sunday night seems like it's a bit if a let down without the siege, but then we go up to 5 of 7 nights a week sieging if they add Sunday.

Could definitely see moving second Saturday siege to Sunday night tho.

Edited by Angelmar

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I’d rather see Saturday not be a siege day. Get rid of both for a single Sunday siege. Maybe a lil earlier that 10est. Saturday in summer will always be a low turnout imo. 

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3 minutes ago, oneply said:

I’d rather see Saturday not be a siege day. Get rid of both for a single Sunday siege. Maybe a lil earlier that 10est. Saturday in summer will always be a low turnout imo. 

Saturday is the one day per week that 90% of people can stay up late or do w/e they want on.  Not a workday. Next day not a workday. 

Saturday should always have a siege.

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I applaud the positive changes to night capping and incentivizing localized violence.  However, it's appalling to see that ACE has done little too reduce plastic pollution in our oceans and waterways.  There's probably no turtle race is this game because ACE only believes in a world where there are no more oceans, only landfills and wartribes.

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I do wish there was more incentive to fight over Forts during their active windows instead of only as it is about to 'lock down'
The Forts are still garnering points during that time, but there's rarely any activity.

I also think the final Fort should probably unlock a bit sooner than it does to cater a bit more to the players that play in the afternoon.


The biggest issue though is that the population the game currently has is usually spread too thin across all of these different zones.
I understand the desire to have multiple zones and maps but it becomes problematic when the game feels empty most of the time.
IMO this is due to having very few reasons to centralize on a location besides Sieges.
Zone and Parcel Ranks are higher than ever which allows people to farm pretty much anywhere as even the locations that aren't the best are pretty damn good.
Earlier this week we saw what seemed to be a zone crash just after a siege as players began a fight and the zone wasn't even capped.
This shouldn't be a thing, the zones need to be stable enough to handle the zone cap fighting inside them if possible.
Stress testing that is more difficult with a spread population.

Overall though I do believe there is less burnout due to 'circle standing' but I'd like to see even more fighting and reasons to fight.


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23 minutes ago, oneply said:

I’d rather see Saturday not be a siege day. Get rid of both for a single Sunday siege. Maybe a lil earlier that 10est. Saturday in summer will always be a low turnout imo. 

I personally like Saturday as siege day and Sunday as off day, but I can certainly understand where you are coming from.

I think the best answer would be to simply alternate between siege and non-siege days. This week may not be to your liking, but next weeks schedule will be the opposite.

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2 hours ago, dolmar said:

There is nothing to do during the night . So if you do not play at the active times then the game is dead and boring. The map and siege schedules were designed by Anglemar and Blazzen so of course they support it. IMO Ace caved to the -W- since balance streams and makes the most videos. It saves them on advertisement. Just my two cents.. uXa will be back. 

Siege focused games have always struggled with the problem of the varied timezone and playtime of the competitive players.   If you go back over the last 20 years you will see a handful of design choices made to help concentrate competitive players so they can "compete" against each other like; focused siege windows,  specific servers for local time zones,etc...

It shouldn't be a surprise that a game built around competitive play would do best when there are actual players to directly compete / play with. 

Luckily there are numerous campaigns, God's reach and even EKs to play in.   Hopefully they can offer campaigns with suitable times so everyone has a place to play.

Also why would competitive players want to play when their campaign victory is determined by "off hours" none competitive activities ?   I can't imagine solo circle standing and back capping was enjoyable unless you got off knowing you could harass people with impunity.

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I enjoy the new system of 1 fort being available for majority of the night. I used to have to decide between trying to scout forts or go looking for harvesters to gank and found that forts were often more important / more active so spent all my time waiting at them for the chance of action and just watch youtube while waiting. Now, since the forts are less open at night I get more of a chance to go roam the world and be pro active in my combat experience. 

Overall, I view the changes to the forts and night capping to be positive. Side note I also do like the 4/7 days a week being siege, gives me some nights off from that which is nice and helps prevent burnout. 

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3 hours ago, Hungry said:

 Takeaway: We need a reason to want to keep forts besides points per turn, and other activities to drive PVP outside of vulnerability windows (caravans etc).

An additional stopgap measure for this, in my mind, is to instead have the ~7AM CST - 7PM CST window have two forts in the same zone vulnerable.  Make them a 1 or 2 hour rotating schedule.

Example:

  Monday's 7AM - 7 PM forts: A & B 

       7AM - 9AM: Fort A

       9AM - 11AM: Fort B

       11AM - 1PM: Fort A

Tuesday's 7 AM - 7 PM forts: C & D

        7AM - 9AM: Fort C

       9AM - 11AM: Fort D

       11AM - 1PM: Fort C

This way it creates a sort of "warzone" in one of the areas of the map, and it still keeps the number of nightcap point flipping low.  It doesn't completely solve the problem of the last 15% of the vuln window being what matters, but I don't really have a good way to solve that issue.  It might just be an issue with a casual PVP format like Factions are supposed to be.

 

 

Quoted for agreement. We need bonuses for holding certain forts (or have the benefit be being able to local bank from only forts/keeps/bh)

And I like your idea about 2 forts flipping back and forth through the night to try and concentrate any conflict to that zone overnight.

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What works best for some guilds doesn't work for others. There isn't going to be a way to make EVERY guild/person happy.

I think most of us agree though, the 6pm EST Siege on Saturday needs to go away forever. 6pm EST doesn't work for anyone with a family on the East Coast. #dadprobs

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2 hours ago, dolmar said:

you know me well enough to know that i don't do politics .

I don't know you very well, as all I read is your forum posts.

From that perspective it seems like you do politics a lot.

Like a LOT.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

I don't know you very well, as all I read is your forum posts.

From that perspective it seems like you do politics a lot.

Like a LOT.

He’s the guild leader of UxA, Tarks “former” guild. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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15 minutes ago, mandalore said:

He’s the guild leader of UxA, Tarks “former” guild. 

Actually Tark was -W- i just gave him a home after he left them. Like i did a few other -W-

 

1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

I don't know you very well, as all I read is your forum posts.

From that perspective it seems like you do politics a lot.

Like a LOT.

I just say what i see . Politics are something im not good at cause i do my best not to lie and always play it truthful. If im wrong i admit it. Its okay though :)

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1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

I don't know you very well, as all I read is your forum posts.

From that perspective it seems like you do politics a lot.

Like a LOT.

from forum posts it seems all UxA does is politics with very little actual playing 


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I definitely think the updated schedules are a big improvement. Not having nightly keep sieges is much better, and the reduced fort schedule gives the forts more value. Having them available primarily when most of the player base is online is the right direction.

As mentioned by others, two sieges on Saturday is a bit much. I'd say keep the earlier one and either drop the late one or move it to Sunday night. I'd also like to see the timer on forts increased to give defenders time to rally, as well as some changes so last-second sniping to avoid PVP when capturing them isn't the default.

In addition to those, keeps should probably not be available to siege on the same night a campaign starts. A lot of people end up missing out because they have to patch, import vessels, etc.

As a general observation, the large-scale PVP has been much more active since these changes went in, which is good for everyone.

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I personally dislike this fort/siege schedule as it only fixed a few minor things like back capping, and created a slew of new headaches.

1 - yes night capping forts is dead.....bc no pvp allowed at 98% of forts lol, theres only one objective fort to fight over for 17 out of 24 hrs of the day.... in 6 zones......really, really, boring and anti sandbox feel going on.

This also removes any strategy for map movement or control as you are literally forced and pointed to what you have to fight over or care about.

This directly helps the faction with the more active player base as now they know exactly where to stack their troops and what they have to defend. (as admitted by most balance they are having an easier time keeping stuff capped)(reference scoreboard)

 

The 5 man fort group now cant use geography and movement as a weapon to get around numbers, they are forced into non winning fights or, to not pvp and farm n craft to try to eliminate any numbers advantages with gear n vessel upgrades.

Also now the “night capping” is just towers and gy’s, it definately still exists, as shown by wb roaming group doing towers last night at 2 am in marq with 7 dudes (not funneled to active fort bc forts are pointless still)

This directly ties to why the campaign map is dead, pvp has no purpose for character progression or reward and you can make epics in gods reach and campaign temple and eks, why would any one trying to get geared up risk getting slaughtered when you have designed the game to have more safe havens than pvp locations? No one is on campaign because of this, it is by design advantageous to not pvp or be in pvp locations.

2 - i agree on back capping being dead and this being a good thing, shorter fort timers might make the last ten minute strat be less viable if fort windows were only 30 mins? more people might d up for 25 mins over 55 mins etc.

3 - reduced pvp siege burnout is now replaced with pvp boredom.

fort locks and less towers have removed almost all campaign map participation, with a main reason being they are all still absolutely pointless for account/character progression.

Why would me and a buddy go try capping towers when we could be farming up gear or vessels for guildmates or factionmates, there is no reward to pvp only risk and detrimental gear hits.

The game in current format is minecraft with a 5 hr pvp window.

4 - circle standing time is much improved, good job 

5 - Respawn cap points have all the same problems forts n towers do, usually they have no strategic purpose bc, capping alerts enemies to the zone, usually not near a valuable objective, and also again they do nothing for a characters development. gy’s are pointless, besides in siege zones during 10-11 if you dont have a fort. 

All in all im really surprised how vocal some are in support of these mechanics because it sure seems like its killing the pvp and world persistence. There are far to many hideouts for people to progress outside of pvp, and far to little pvp objectives with meaningful purpose that people care and want to fight for. Fights for just points on the scoreboard hasn’ t worked for 6 months. Make pvp have a purpose towards something and people will pvp, until then, this is what crowfall campaigns will look like.

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Posted (edited)

2x sieges in a day is meh.

1x per week is yay.

Please check my post history for suggestions about revising the siege materials economy to add context to all the time in between. I could repeat the same novel again but that would be redundant. I think the major issue people have with windows is that their actions between windows don't feel meaningful.

With a better set of risk/reward systems focused around movement of POI resources via caravan to reinforce owned objectives, and the ability to loot that storage by taking down objectives during windows the context of the space between windows would be about preparing for the next windows rather than just trading outpost captures or ganking harvesters out of boredom.

I'm all for ganking harvesters. It's my favorite thing. However there should be a persistant and valuable feeling pvp activity in the world and outposts alone don't do that. The way the current system works it feels like the war stops whenever the vuln window stops. The war should feel persistant and offer you a persistant opportunity to contribute to the war effort even if you're not going to be around for those large battles, and do so in a way that invites pvp interactions.
In my personal opinion that should be the concept of player driven supply caravans driving those big chunks of stone, metal, and timber to make your keep or fort even harder to take down next fight, or stored to construct even more siege weapons rather than those weapons being constructed from just the same materials as gear.

Also I completely agree that objectives having literally zero reward and only serving as a way to beat up your gear for ephemeral points is bad.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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