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boogis

Whats a point of winning?

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Posted (edited)

apart from your own ego sutisfaction, what is the point of winning comaign? well maybe first time you wanna win in sake of winning? but whats a point to win 10th time or 50th? if there is no like far objective then life becomes meaningless, isnt it? we need to have sort of far goal. so what is the prize for winner? do we have some system already? tell me cos i dont know. if its like cosmetics sort of golden sheild its still bad motivation, cos this only can sutisfy narcissim people. normal people do not care for how they look, but for how they feel. if there would be some interesting system of winning motivation then it would be  more fun, for example you can sell like real medals for winners with their name on them for example "golden medal given to john snow for winning first prize of crowfall of 2019 on EU servers playing for Order. # 043-CFEU" something like that and maybe certificate included.

same could be done for guild servers and with guilds simble on it. however there could be some more motivation rather then just medals. i like what steam did. in steam for every game you can buy cards then collect those cards in sets and then combine them and win something like skins or experience. same you can do here. say for those who won 3 golden medals they can exchange them for 6 month free premium, maybe only winners can get 1 month of superpremium but those who lost can also get free premium to motivate them to fight to win this time. to balance it so winners cant easier win every single time. look, once you won u got 1 month super premium which can boost you up for first time but later you dont have any premium only for money and you have to buy it cos you wanna win again (thats how company makes money) but losers get 6 month free premium so that they are motivated to continiue playing to be able to win.

so you charge from winners so thay wanna have that feeling being on top so they must pay but loosers after loosing dont have motivation and they might leave the game complitly so we cant be greedy and dont let them have heaps of premium for free. all the time we will motivate loosers with free premium and make winners pay to be able to compit. but if you have won 1 prize tree time in row then you can get some big prize, maybe be some small cup or something or custom figure of your character with character name on it (real one) or invitation to some event like E3 or maybe party that this game can organize with granting prize for guild leader or somtheing. like once a three years, i dont know could be anything. 

well guys id like to hear what your ideas are on how we can motivate people be winners. 

Edited by boogis

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Are you asking us to explain why you should want to win?  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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What dark fall did right was have limited ‘keeps’ that served as bases and could be taken and owned. Then imagine having mother nodes only inside the walls.

singles would jump the fences to mine, guilds would team up to help take forts.

i loved the idea of the campaigns but raids seem superficial and I don’t see a future. Take a fort just because your looking for a fight.


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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Silverback said:

What dark fall did right was have limited ‘keeps’ that served as bases and could be taken and owned. Then imagine having mother nodes only inside the walls.

singles would jump the fences to mine, guilds would team up to help take forts.

i loved the idea of the campaigns but raids seem superficial and I don’t see a future. Take a fort just because your looking for a fight.

And the strong could only get stronger. That was 'beyond bad' long term mechanic as a result (besides the major exploits) made 4 versions of DF to date to die.
Warhammer Online, had even less of an incentive to win then Crowfall does, yet there have been private servers running for many years after the official ones closed. None of that happened for DF.

Edited by KDSProm

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Silverback said:

What dark fall did right was have limited ‘keeps’ that served as bases and could be taken and owned. Then imagine having mother nodes only inside the walls.

singles would jump the fences to mine, guilds would team up to help take forts.

i loved the idea of the campaigns but raids seem superficial and I don’t see a future. Take a fort just because your looking for a fight.

thats what im saying there gotta be some superior goal to kill people, if you enjoy killing for sake of killing then you r a maniac, grats. even on war in real life people do not enjoy killing other unless then had to, but always there is an idea behind every war (mass murdering), so we have to create same sort of idea like in real life, say like nazizm or comunism or democracy, or something, you know, something what make people going, maybe after war only winner fraction can have citys or res control but looser fraction can have some other benifits to equal the difference. so there must be some idea behind murder otherwise we just animals. different social or government stucture maybe religion. when i was designing my own game i was thinking to mimic real life religions and belive systems. like so called jews they allowed to open banks and borrow money to other religion for %, but interest free for their own kind, so called muslims if they rule city or country they forbid any morgage only interest free for everyone, but they all must be muslims in this case, so called muslims hate so called jews and they have right to exectute each other after fight ends or inslave them.

Actions/religions name Buddist Christ Jews Muslims
execute buddist no no no no
inslave buddist no yes yes yes
execute christian no no yes yes
inslave christian no yes yes yes
execute jew no yes no yes
inslave jew no yes no yes
execute muslim no yes yes no
islave muslim no yes yes no

 

in my game is permadeath so execute is important but here we can do sort of exectute and experience loose or something. 

i have huge system that i  developed but i dont wanna overload you with info, but this could be a useful hint for you. so buddists are vegeterian they are alchemists, jew muslims do not eat  certain foods, they have rites and magic of their own and many other things.

Edited by boogis

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57 minutes ago, boogis said:

thats what im saying there gotta be some superior goal to kill people, if you enjoy killing for sake of killing then you r a maniac, grats. even on war in real life people do not enjoy killing other unless then had to, but always there is an idea behind every war (mass murdering), so we have to create same sort of idea like in real life, say like nazizm or comunism or democracy, or something, you know, something what make people going, maybe after war only winner fraction can have citys or res control but looser fraction can have some other benifits to equal the difference. so there must be some idea behind murder otherwise we just animals. different social or government stucture maybe religion. when i was designing my own game i was thinking to mimic real life religions and belive systems. like so called jews they allowed to open banks and borrow money to other religion for %, but interest free for their own kind, so called muslims if they rule city or country they forbid any morgage only interest free for everyone, but they all must be muslims in this case, so called muslims hate so called jews and they have right to exectute each other after fight ends or inslave them.

Actions/religions name Buddist Christ Jews Muslims
execute buddist no no no no
inslave buddist no yes yes yes
execute christian no no yes yes
inslave christian no yes yes yes
execute jew no yes no yes
inslave jew no yes no yes
execute muslim no yes yes no
islave muslim no yes yes no

 

in my game is permadeath so execute is important but here we can do sort of exectute and experience loose or something. 

i have huge system that i  developed but i dont wanna overload you with info, but this could be a useful hint for you. so buddists are vegeterian they are alchemists, jew muslims do not eat  certain foods, they have rites and magic of their own and many other things.

i skimmed your post, and let me say this without addressing everything else, the point behind this FAKE war is ITS A GAME AND BEATING WHINY CHAOS BABIES INTO DUST IS FUN there does not need to be anymore reason for fighting then making sure someone else loses more. that is all

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i will make it shot since you skimmed - if you enjoy murder is sake of murder - congratulations, you are maniac! )))))) normal people need a goal otherwise they loose interest easy.

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Posted (edited)

human do not live without superior idea or goal, you are do not understand basics of how to create on going systems, how to design worlds and craft a reality, look at olimpic games, sportsmen try to get as much medals to make their country win and if their country win then they economy raise cos people pride raise happyness raised people having more sex, more children more good sportsmen and more medals and so on and on. you dont see amazonian tribes win no olympic games or australian aboriginals cos they dont have superior idea of their nation. they give no damn. thats what you want crowfall people be like? savages? ))))))))

Edited by boogis

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I am going to try to take this on a serious note even though it looks to be off the rails already.

I believe the best option for "winning" would be cosmetics or EK parcels.

For faction gameplay, I would have players have certain milestones to complete to get crowns or another cosmetic specific currency or just whatever the cosmetic reward was for that CW.

I would do the same for Dregs except give a full cosmetic / EK item that was NOT available in any other way. This would make winning dregs, which should be harder to do have a much more valuable and unique reward.

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this how male looks when they try to ware cosmetics, we r not females you know. dont give me gay look give me power of idea which can dominate over the world and my rules which everyone will obey, build a temple of all-god with a roof shape i want to pick. not triangle, i said, i said sphare. this is the reason of fight between all religions - symble shape dominance even tho there is one god. 

 690x889_0xc0a83925_20982381462026677.jpe

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Personally, I had the same feeling when I tested the game last year. I was looking for the end goal, the ultimate objective. I quitted testing after a few weeks.

 

But then I realize that the game is more like Minecraft than World of Warcraft. There is no end game in Minecraft. It's a "survival/crafting game". 

That changed my mindset and how I play the game. I must say I really enjoy now the differents gaming aspects. 

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Straight from the FAQs

Quote

Winning a Campaign will result in a higher number of potential exports. As they say: to the victor goes the spoils. Some Campaigns will also have unique rewards that are awarded to players based on specific victory conditions.

If I'm not mistaken, "victory conditions" aren't yet ingame. The campaigns always end only after X time, no matter what happened in that world, no matter how many points a faction got or how many items the players sacrified.

Victory conditions aren't applied yet... And neither are victory rewards. After all, this is still a Pre-Alpha.

Jumping to less game related talk, you don't have to want to win. You can, obviously, but it's not mandatory.

What should be mandatory is to do something that you personally find amusing. It can be winning, it can be crafting, it can be having nice fights no matter if you win or lose, it can be to socialize, building a great EK, to be the most famous ranger/chef,...

You get to choose your ultimate objective.

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thank you guys for your adecuate responce, even im being exsentric but after all people get bored of games, im old gamer and i got bored of many games but my dream is a game where you never tired, so i tried to think of the reason, so maybe its an ultimate goal what make player feel like game is empty and he or she exhausted the game. always good to mimic real life and real life have sort of high level of existance like yin and yang. i hope we ll see something cool and viable here. every new mmo have a new hope. 

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This conversation feels like that moment when a lion has to explain to the gazelle why its being eaten. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, boogis said:

thank you guys for your adecuate responce, even im being exsentric but after all people get bored of games, im old gamer and i got bored of many games but my dream is a game where you never tired, so i tried to think of the reason, so maybe its an ultimate goal what make player feel like game is empty and he or she exhausted the game.

I understand what you mean. 

The first MMO I ever played was Star Wars Galaxies (SWG). 16 years later, after I played and tried a lot of MMOs, SWG is still the best experience / fun I had in a MMO. For me, as I look back at all the experiences I had in the different MMOs, I found that what I enjoy the most is the journey, not the destination. 

For example, World of Warcraft, you rush the content to be ready to clear the last raid. The community and the culture around WOW is about clearing the last raid / boss. That's why there is a race, after every patches, to know who will be the first to clear the raid. I don't know what are the numbers, but when you look the streaming of the guild Method for the first mythic clear of each new raid, it's event every time. 

What I found with SWG and Crowfall, because there is no "ultimate objective" telling you that you have cleared the game, the importance is more about the journey that then end. 

 

Quote

always good to mimic real life and real life have sort of high level of existance like yin and yang.

Let's make a comparaison with real life. I enjoy reading the stories of success people, entrepreneur and business man/woman. One thing common with most of the success stories is that they all started by setting a basic goal. Let's say, gain $1 million. But what happen when you reach the goal, you set a second goal. Gain $2 million. And you repeat the process, again and again.

For those who are been successful for a long time, when they talk about how they got where they are, they talk about the journey, the people they met and different anecdotes . Not the fact that they are successful today or that they have more money that they ever need. (cleared the end game)

The objectives in Crowfall are more inline with how it's in real life than a lot of MMO. If you don't set small goals, in life or in game, you will get bored rapidly. You can go in life, by working 9 to 5, eat, sleep, rinse and repeat without never achieving small goals. 

 

TO RESUME :

  • Park theme game (like WOW) : take you by the hand and bring you to the end goal 
  • Sand box (like Crowfall, Minecraft) : give you the tools to create you own end goal. 

It's 2 different mindset that don't appeal to the same gamers / crowd. The question is only to know what kind of game you enjoy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by warpigeon05

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Posted (edited)

Right now there is a HUGE piece missing, which will be missing until after the wipes stop happening.  EK persistence.

Right now the rewards are cosmetic trinkets, and things we can use in the only place that currently matters, the campaign world.  There is a whole "get stuff from campaigns for your EK" loop still missing, partly because nobody is going to put in the time making buildings that get wiped, and partly because ACE has given everyone a big enough kit and sample parcels and houses that there is no need to do that yet, and partly because the economy is on a never ending sea-saw while ACE tries to build systems and keeps dramatically shifting economic balance.

Bottom line, its still a pre-alpha TEST and systems that support the kind of thing you seem to be looking for, have not been built or addressed, because trying to do so early would be like trying to build a house roof down, rather than ground up.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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51 minutes ago, mandalore said:

This conversation feels like that moment when a lion has to explain to the gazelle why its being eaten. 

You are mistaking posts.

That one was called "What's the point of whining?"

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