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Duke_Suraknar

World of Warcraft Classic

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Yup, today it launched, and more than 500k players rushed.

There is currently queues of 11000 and 20000 people waiting to play with wait times being from 150m to 360m respectively.

You maybe asking "and how do you know, what are you doing playing WoW as a potential Crowfall player, isn't WoW Themepark kind of why you are looking forward to Crowfall, something different etc?"

The answer is simple though, despite the fact that I am a Sandbox type player, despite the fact that I loved playing UO and SWG the most in all these years, WoW Vanilla (now CLassic) held a special spot in all of this. Mainly for a handful of its features or mechanics etc.

1st - The Combat System and 2nd - the Performance, Ambiance, Lore and Simplicity how it all flowed together smoothly.

I simply had so much Fun PvPing in WoW, I did not care about raids I did not care about mind-numbing repetitious gameplay of quest after quest with NPCs and I did not care about its rudimentary crafting system either, the bulk of WoW gameplay did not really appeal to me. But I loved its PvP. I spent countless hours in Open World and Battleground PvP in that game, made it to grand Marshal in Vanilla just out of doing what I was having fun to do.

It is the memory of all those hours of Fun PvPing which got me back with the launch of its Classic Version, the prospect of re-living those glorious moments, one of which had been a 19 hours long Alterac Valley which I will never forget. My Class in WoW was Hunter (Like Ranger here), and my Spec was a Hybrid mainly survival, emphasizing ranged critical strikes, traps, armor and some melee, because I am a medium range to close range combatant, the bane of rogues, healers, mages and warlocks, a match for shamans and other hunters and even going toe to toe with warriors and paladins close range in the thick of the engagement, with well timed hit and run tactics, jumping in laying traps and a couple of melee strikes jumping out to rain arrows on the lot or snipe with impunity. I had developed my own War Dance, "the Dance of the Hunter" according to my own style of play.

And it got me thinking, and prompted me to share these thoughts here, (since I cannot be there due to the high queues), and reflect as to the sheer number of people which were once more attracted by it in one fell swoop.

This is maybe something to take note of, while I understand not all players went back to Classic for the same reason, the PvPers went back for the fun of its Combat system, and the prospect of fighting it out, with great performance and balance, tactical move and counter move, trying to outsmart each other in the midst of the battle. 

I think there is food for thought here which could be exciting down the line.

Just imagine, awesome crafting with Housing AND a fun Combat system bundled together in the for of the Campaigns, glorious Sieges, Factional Warfare Guild vs Guild of FFA PvP!

Cheers (down to 7000 in the queue)

Edited by Duke_Suraknar
typos

~ Duke Suraknar ~

<Order of the Silver Star>, (OSS)

*everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

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Another example of how many people want good competitive MMO instead of another casual cash out flashy spamfest. I just can't believe Activision (rip Blizzard) won't thanks this forum for nice amazing words autocorrect it up again.

Edited by ComradeAma

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People remember the feelings they had back then. What we forget is that NOTHING will replace those old memories. It's not about the game, it's about the communities... and most of them are dead. I wont touch WOW again, Classic or a future expansion. I am done chasing a feeling I used to have. Blizzard can't sell me what I'm looking for.

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4 hours ago, Bzra said:

People remember the feelings they had back then. What we forget is that NOTHING will replace those old memories. It's not about the game, it's about the communities... and most of them are dead. I wont touch WOW again, Classic or a future expansion. I am done chasing a feeling I used to have. Blizzard can't sell me what I'm looking for.

I disagree.

And I will ask you a question.

Did you stop being a Good community player yourself?

I have not, I play the same way that I played in UO and SWG and all others. BUT, there has not been a game like these to give me the same opportunity to play according to my style since.

So from my perspective, it is about the game.

People have not change in 7000 years since the advent of the First Civilization and the adoption of a new way of life. What we consider valuable and important today in our lives is the same as an Ancient Egyptian Citizen an Ancient Greek Citizen Mesopotamian Chinese, Hindu or Native American etc etc.

When I played Darkfall, I tried to do the same as in UO but the game was simply not designed for that and the Game wanted me to play according to its Devs Vision of how the Game should be played. And it did not work.

So, I am sorry but I got to play some WoW yesterday night and it is no different than the first time that I did. It is the Same game as Vanilla and people behave the same way in accordance to what opportunities the game offers.

I am very sure that they will end up again spending hours on end Raiding for Gear and DKP and all that, which I dislike personally, all that I like is the Combat System and the PvP and without Bias.

I am a community Builder, and I am not talking about Forum "communities: here, I am talking In-Game Communities of Characters and their Players..but if the Game is not designed for that, there is not much that I can do other than looking for the one that does.

I played UO for 5 years since 1996, along with my friends I did create an In game community of Multiple Guilds and Hundreds of people on the server we were all playing and also became active members Organizers and Supporters of the wider In game Community of players.

The only other game that permitted (meaning, was designer for) for such a level of play was SWG since...and we would still be playing it if it were not for NGE.

All the others want us, in various degrees, go through their own hoops and loops of their "Gameplay", none made a world for the players to establish own goals and gameplay.

Some other attempt to do so in various ways, such as EVE Online, Shadowbane or more recently Archeage and Albion Online, but in my opinion and view they all fail because they try to direct players towards a specific close ended Goal of competition for Domination.

But then what? What happens when the Super Zerg Guild or Alliance succeeds in Dominating... Game Over.

On the other hand, n UO, and SWG there was no such close ended Goal,  these were Open ended Games, the player's imagination was the limit and as such there was no end to the Game...because Humans are social creatures by nature and when left to our own devices we will seek to maintain a healthy level of social interaction which can go on and on....it is why Individuals and Guilds played these games for Years, and were having fun for years and were happy.

WoW is also Close ended but in a different way, it is done within the Themepark context, which translates to Player Progression...at one point you get all the gear and there is no more content to consume...and the question of where to go with Classic...is already being debated.

As far as I am concerned though, I am here to have Fun with an aspect of WoW which did give me fun and still does, until something better gets completed and released...

Crowfall,  Dual Universe, Camelot Unchained, and maybe even Star Citizen, are the Games I am really waiting for them to be finished and released, and to choose from and see which one I can say "this is it" and play for 5 years at least thereafter.

I am simply fed up to go in game after game to play for a month and quit it after realizing that it is just another progression repetitious grind on rails without any true opportunity to establish a community and build something fun and enjoyable.

I have not been playing any MMO in the last 3 years now the last one I tried and quickly abandoned was Albion Online...

Unfortunately none of us have the skill to make the game we want, albeit the thought has crossed our minds many times, at least no the coding etc. Some of us could do Design, and I consider myself somewhat of a amateur designer, but still that is not enough so I am trying to share my thoughts theory-crafting instead for years now in various games forums, MMORPG.com etc etc. And wait for someone to decide to make a game that we can enjoy.

Lets not forget the Cardinal Rule of Game making, "players come to play a game to have fun"

WoW Classic is a refresher and I play Casually more so like a MOBA for its PvP. along with friends, and until the game we wait for gets made, because at this time, it is what is available which gives fun.

Cheers!

Edited by Duke_Suraknar

~ Duke Suraknar ~

<Order of the Silver Star>, (OSS)

*everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

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5 hours ago, Rikutatis said:

I understand the strong nostalgic appeal vanilla WoW has on people, but god I could never go back to tab target... main reason I didn't back CU as well. 

I am not biased versus a specific mechanic.

And it is not the TAB targeting per se, it is the fluidity of combat, the intuitive aspect of it..WoW's Tab targeting is fun, because it fits in with the classes, the skills the specs, their interaction with the environment and the combat interaction between players (PvP), in an intuitive, fluid, way.

The package makes it very fun, and that is the most important aspect here.

So if the experience is Fun, who cares if it is tab targeting or using your brain impulses to target.

It is ok to Innovate but, using an existing way of doing things in a new package which results in a Fun experience is also innovation.

Crowfalls Combat system reminds me of Tabula Rasa's Combat system, also Age of Conan Combat system, and is it possible (memory fails me) Guild Wars 2 combat system? But in a more clanky way not as refined. I understand it is only pre-Alpha so I make no definite judgement or conclusions, but it is not more fun than WoW at this point and it is what I am saying partly.

Also...do you notice a trend here? People are not running in Droves to play any of these other games...they are going to play a Tab Based Combat System game... with a Monthly Subscription nonetheless. WoW is not F2P...

Edited by Duke_Suraknar

~ Duke Suraknar ~

<Order of the Silver Star>, (OSS)

*everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

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20 hours ago, Bzra said:

People remember the feelings they had back then. What we forget is that NOTHING will replace those old memories. It's not about the game, it's about the communities... and most of them are dead. I wont touch WOW again, Classic or a future expansion. I am done chasing a feeling I used to have. Blizzard can't sell me what I'm looking for.

Amen. Agreed 100%. 

The older you get, the better things used to be. After the initial rush of nostalgia, it is largely a hollow experience. You can't get time back.


.

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5 hours ago, Armegeddon said:

Amen. Agreed 100%. 

The older you get, the better things used to be. After the initial rush of nostalgia, it is largely a hollow experience. You can't get time back.

Well, I think we share the feeling of what the Game in its entirety really means. Maybe I am being misunderstood as well.

I would be the first to say that WoW maybe the best Themepark Game out there, but Themepark MMO's are shallow by nature. I will be the first to say (and have been saying so), that WoW's gameplay is nothing more than a Solo Experience (You can actually play it without ever talking to anyone) filled with Repetition without any other scope and goal than an endless progression on rails.

But again, I think we can give merit where merit is due in a fair and rational way without emotional bias. It does have features and Mechanics that are worth taking note of.

And in my opinion, its Combat System is one.

Can you imagine a Sandbox Game with all the elements many Sandbox players seek,  Emergemnt Gameplay and Open Ended Gameplay, through strong Emphasis on mechanics permitting for Social Interactions between players and all the features Sandbox players want, Player based Economy, Robust Engaging Harvesting and Crafting Systems, Diverse and Flexible Housing System and a Justice System all in conjunction to a Fun Combat System such as Wow's?

Can you Imagine WoW Classic (Vanilla) Classes Abilities and Specs in a good Sandbox game instead, heck if you do not want classes it can even be fully Skill based, make your own Class mix and match skills and specs !!

All within a beautiful expansive World containing and providing the playground for the players to fashion as they see fit according to their own goals and imagination, establish in-game societies or communities and build their social hubs without a preset path for them to follow.

If you can really visualize this hypothetical game you would be drooling by now ;)

Don't enclose yourself and your view in categorical (or dogmatic) positions and stance.
 

Edited by Duke_Suraknar

~ Duke Suraknar ~

<Order of the Silver Star>, (OSS)

*everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

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17 hours ago, Bzra said:

We'll agree to disagree but Blizzardvision wont be stealing my $15 a month.

That is fine no one is forcing anyone. 

This is just a discussion to entertain ideas in an open minded way. ;)


~ Duke Suraknar ~

<Order of the Silver Star>, (OSS)

*everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

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On 8/27/2019 at 11:05 AM, Rikutatis said:

I understand the strong nostalgic appeal vanilla WoW has on people, but god I could never go back to tab target... main reason I didn't back CU as well. 

This.

I watched one old video of WoW classic and that was enough for me. The standing there waiting on auto attack to swing....cringe worthy. 


Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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19 minutes ago, blazzen said:

This.

I watched one old video of WoW classic and that was enough for me. The standing there waiting on auto attack to swing....cringe worthy. 

I am not sure that reducing the combat System to one small element of it such as the auto-attack is making justice to the system, because WoW combat is not slow, it is actually very quite fast paced (I am talking about PvP here) and competitive.

I suggest this video which compares the "Tab Targeting System" to the  Non Tab Targeting system between ESO and WoW. Crowfall has the ESO system now I could say.

I found this video actually fair without bias and an honest Comparison of the two.

Comparing ESO and WoW Combat system

In the end,there is no "best" system per say, each of them will simply attract different crowds. The question is which one fits best in a Combat Oriented Game and which one will appeal to more people too.

In my Opinion Tab Targeting has a wider audience and appeals to more people of a wider age group than the more twitchy non Tab targeting combat.

I guess we shall see, as more people test this system and give feedback. I did not want to write feedback yet directly because I just started testing, and I am reflecting upon my own behavior and what attracts me.

I am not the Typical WoW player, but I was attracted to Classic because of the PvP. And It is as Fun today as it was back in Vanilla at least until something more fun is released.

And that is a fact which I can simply not ignore as far as my own preferences are concerned.

I have to be honest with my feedback, and let the rest be decided by the powers that be for better or for worse.

I just hope that all answers here are just as honest and not biased, regardless everyone here is entitled to their preference of course and I can;t but respect that.

Cheers!


~ Duke Suraknar ~

<Order of the Silver Star>, (OSS)

*everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

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Classic custard Andy right here, old 2004 with tedious slow paced content with too long cooldowns on spells and powers, boring. Blizzard reskin and keep milking poor players, because they are too custard lazy to create a new story, new mmo content with 2020 updated graphic in a modern mmo. 


MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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