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Crowfall unveils 'The Infected' - Official discussion thread

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3 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I have to say, I really agree with this. 

First stage focus on development was the sandbox aspects and basic combat in a battle royal style, with piles of time spent developing ore whacking for stuff, and crafting stuff into other stuff next. All the conquest strategy and what I would consider "real" aspects of a game that bills itself as a "Throne War Simulator" are now being added in after those, and in many ways being forced to fit square pegs into round holes. In every RTS game I have ever played, (another type the game is compared to), the less you think about the mechanics of harvesting and instead focus on territory control, the more you can make strategic choices about what harvesting areas to fight over.  From Age of Empires and that third gold pile close to your enemy, to Company of Hero's where simply holding territory was enough to gain resource income.  The less you worry about the details of harvesting, (one unit type, "peasant" for ALL harvesting in AoE at a fixed rate, to simply gaining resources from holding territory),  the more fun the game seem to be. CF is largely the opposite of that.  It's gotten better with PvE places to "farm", but the fact the word "farm", which really isn't fun for most, and is used as a common game play activity seems problematic. 

Personally I think it was done backwards, but crafting and old harvesting models are what developers were the most familiar with, so that's where they started. Cart before the horse if you ask me. I only hope they can find enough corners to shave off the edges of square pegs to fit them into the round holes they are aiming for.

 

people wouldnt play most rts if 90% of the game was watching the peasants hit rocks.

Edited by Marth

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On 9/9/2019 at 7:11 AM, DocTrine said:

The only thing significant left to add is Dregs, and that will not change core combat mechanics, only the manner and style of siege gameplay.

The only other main missing mechanic is for crafting, and honestly it won't impact 90% of players.

Dregs isn't going to complete this thing or at least not make it something enough people will stick around for. There is still a lot of content/features missing that were planned at some point. How much they'll get to pre-launch is unknown, but still sounds like a good chunk is in the works.

Dregs is a start, but some or all of these items will change the landscape of how things play out. 

Caravans

Advantages & Disadvantages

Refineries and other forms of POI

Thralls

Pets

Alliance/Guild Hierarchy, Fealty, bend the knee mechanics for Campaigns and EKs

Frostweaver

Tournament System

Relic/Artifact system for EK

EKs being something of use to merchants and social butterflies

Better Campaign rulesets

Conquest system.

Crafting UI Overhaul. UI in general Overhaul

Is the Hunger going to be a thing that actually changes the world over time?

Surely there is more.

Edited by APE

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5 hours ago, APE said:

Caravans

Advantages & Disadvantages

Refineries and other forms of POI

Thralls

Pets

Alliance/Guild Hierarchy, Fealty, bend the knee mechanics for Campaigns and EKs

Frostweaver

Tournament System

Relic/Artifact system for EK

EKs being something of use to merchants and social butterflies

Better Campaign rulesets

Conquest system.

Crafting UI Overhaul. UI in general Overhaul

Is the Hunger going to be a thing that actually changes the world over time?

Surely there is more.

I foresee ACE trying to implement Caravans, Frostweaver, another ruleset(dregs) and something with EK's since they sold that sort of thing with cash already. Everything else is dropped to get out of Alpha before the end of 2020. I am fearing that I might have to wait for a failed launch and then a relaunch for most systems.

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4 hours ago, mystafyi said:

I foresee ACE trying to implement Caravans, Frostweaver, another ruleset(dregs) and something with EK's since they sold that sort of thing with cash already. Everything else is dropped to get out of Alpha before the end of 2020. I am fearing that I might have to wait for a failed launch and then a relaunch for most systems.

I don’t see them being able to skip any of that stuff and not distance more people from their already shattered community.

 

If you leave out thralls, refineries, caravans and a crafting UI update you screw over crafters.  Blair has seen to it we need dedicated crafters but very few people want to play that role.  

Guild hierarchy, frost weaver and advantages/disadvantages are basically core.  One is a class, one is the entire way we organize ourselves and the other is their last chance to add meaningful depth to our very shallow pool of viable characters.  They also need to do an extensive and honest balance of the classes and specs. 

No dregs would be bad for us and equally bad for them.  There are plenty of faction PvP MMOs already out there and frankly they do it better.  

Relics and EK is how they got most of their kickstarter money and to betray the backers would be bad. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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18 hours ago, mandalore said:

I don’t see them being able to skip any of that stuff and not distance more people from their already shattered community.

If you leave out thralls, refineries, caravans and a crafting UI update you screw over crafters.  Blair has seen to it we need dedicated crafters but very few people want to play that role.  

Guild hierarchy, frost weaver and advantages/disadvantages are basically core.  One is a class, one is the entire way we organize ourselves and the other is their last chance to add meaningful depth to our very shallow pool of viable characters.  They also need to do an extensive and honest balance of the classes and specs. 

No dregs would be bad for us and equally bad for them.  There are plenty of faction PvP MMOs already out there and frankly they do it better.  

Relics and EK is how they got most of their kickstarter money and to betray the backers would be bad. 

I agree they need many of the things on that list, I am just realistic in saying they wont be able to add them all. As for anything crafting related, I am sure Blair wants crafting front and center, but past changes don't reflect that(looking at you RNG drops, EK changes and no economy now).

As for betraying old backers, I am sure they don't care much about that in the grand scheme of things. As evidence to that, I assert that the game today is nothing like what was promoted years ago. In addition, as you said above, they promoted relics and EK's for most of their fundraising and yet EK's are on life support and we cannot even talk about relics since they are MIA.

On an Odd note, statistically around 500 backers would have died since 2016, so that would be less people to upset. :)

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6 hours ago, mystafyi said:

I agree they need many of the things on that list, I am just realistic in saying they wont be able to add them all. As for anything crafting related, I am sure Blair wants crafting front and center, but past changes don't reflect that(looking at you RNG drops, EK changes and no economy now).

As for betraying old backers, I am sure they don't care much about that in the grand scheme of things. As evidence to that, I assert that the game today is nothing like what was promoted years ago. In addition, as you said above, they promoted relics and EK's for most of their fundraising and yet EK's are on life support and we cannot even talk about relics since they are MIA.

On an Odd note, statistically around 500 backers would have died since 2016, so that would be less people to upset. :)

One of the oddities of backing a product not yet created is that it is all generic ideas.  I imagine many different people imagined different things when they saw the kick starter.   In just my friend group we would have all described nearly an entirely different game from what we saw.  I didn't invest in kick-starter for any of the more specific mentions because I am not naive as to the fact that during the development process choices have to be made.  Things have to be given priority over other things and some things are so in conflict with others they need to be cut entirely.  I invested in a very generalized dream for a game and a group of people I thought might bring something even close to that grand dream into being.

EK's were one of the things that most interested me in this game.  In fact the EK is what I am most excited about.  Yet I would think only the most ignorant Dev team would prioritize your personal happy place to build things over the functioning game world.  If you think EK's are where they want them you are mistaken.  If you think they should have focused on EK's over the stability of the game and the campaigns at large, you are mistaken.  

It is one thing to post strong arguments for why you believe things should be given more focus than they already are.  Or to advocate for features to be included that you have any real evidence to suggest won't be, other than they simply aren''t here in the incomplete game yet.  You might even advocate to ensure something does not fall to the chopping block that is important to you. 

 Ascribing perceptual motivations and whether or not "betraying the backers" is something the dev team even cares about is just sad.   You could not possibly be sure of that.  You make a deductive argument claim while supporting it with inductive reasoning at best.  

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet, not everyone is going to be happy:)


-The Legion shall forever be reborn

 

qliewl5.png

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On 9/7/2019 at 1:13 AM, miraluna said:

ACE obviously recognizes the potential problem (hi Uncle Bob from KS video!) and is at least being proactive about designing tools and rulesets they can use to help solve the problem.

I missed this when and where did that happen at.  What tools?  I would love details / links not just statements of player said dev said.  Thanks.

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40 minutes ago, Felagunda said:

I missed this when and where did that happen at.

The Kickstarter video? Or the core concept of resetting Campaigns with different rulesets and import restrictions for different types of players?


tiPrpwh.png

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45 minutes ago, Felagunda said:

I missed this when and where did that happen at.  What tools?  I would love details / links not just statements of player said dev said.  Thanks.

 

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51 minutes ago, Felagunda said:

I missed this when and where did that happen at.  What tools?  I would love details / links not just statements of player said dev said.  Thanks.

There is no hard data for what these systems will be, how the will work or when they will be in.  The devs acknowledge systems will need to be in and there have been a few starter conversations about it but as players there is no actual data of what the tools will be.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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What I have noticed when playing this campaign,

If this is a PvP centered game, AND there is a "trade embargo" on this campaign which limits what can be taken out of it then there should be some "risk" to enter the "center world" to gather the rarer resources that it tied to competing for the keeps/outposts. What makes sense to me is that the more keeps/outposts I have the more "secure" the "'center world" by having troopers or something sent on patrol in the center world. This would provide incentive to fight for the keeps in order to have more security when gathering.

Another option would be to have a set amount of time that the keeps are "capture-able" and if 1 of the 3 factions captures 2 of the 3 main keeps then they get access to the central world; but if no faction gets a majority then all factions get access to the central world.

Something like this seems to give a more meaningful relation between the PvP and rare resource availability.

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