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Bazgul

Keep/fort/outpost upkeep

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All keeps/forts/outpost should have an upkeep cost, but they should also add either a type of resourice and/or a significant crafting bonus. This would encourage taking certain locations for that type of resource, but would be costly to own to many locations. If upkeep not paid then control is lost. Npc king or captain takes control depending  on type of location.

 

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In the Dregs where a single guild owns a structure, I agree. In the Eternal Kingdoms, where a single player owns a structure, I agree. Maybe not the NPC king (I'd never pay up if I could predictably force a king spawn), but keeping the guards showing up at their post & keeping the building from falling down should cost upkeep of some sort.

Which player should pay the upkeep in a factions campaign composed of whatever random people happen to join in & click on that faction?

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Yeah, a previous iteration of the guards required gold to spawn them. There were very few outposts with guards. Of course, the change coincided with huge nerfs to the amount of gold we could get, which didn't help, but I don't think it's likely to work well in a faction environment.

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Upkeep could be items sacrificed to the locations fire pit, so whole faction could help pay, the king takeover might spawn some pvp. Outpost could require guards to be bought, 1-4 guards, 1000gold per level, no guards no points. Just seems keeps/forts are empty except at seige times.

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2 hours ago, VaMei said:

In the Eternal Kingdoms, where a single player owns a structure, I agree.

eks have to have some sort of value to charge upkeep. 

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1 minute ago, Marth said:

eks have to have some sort of value to charge upkeep. 

They certainly do, why else would we take the time to go there, let alone waste resources to build anything there?

I recall hearing that JTodd wants the EKs to be valued as a central part of the crowfall player experience, and that they are the reason we should want to brave the hunger & the dying worlds.

How he intends to make that a reality, I have no idea but we're not quite there yet. 🙃

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Just now, VaMei said:

They certainly do, why else would we take the time to go there, let alone waste resources to build anything there?

I recall hearing that JTodd wants the EKs to be valued as a central part of the crowfall player experience, and that they are the reason we should want to brave the hunger & the dying worlds.

How he intends to make that a reality, I have no idea but we're not quite there yet. 🙃

How ACE is going to bring EKs up to that level remains to be seen as the goals we've heard are:

  • EKs should have little to no effect on the competitive balance of any given campaign.
  • EKs should be the thing that makes you want to export, and by extension, the thing that makes you want to win.

this is from a recent thread. Currently the two things that are talked about on eks are not compatible. 

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12 minutes ago, Marth said:

Currently the two things that are talked about on eks are not compatible. 

Agreed, those goals are mutually exclusive without some significant changes or additions.

I'm not interested in bling, flashy skins, or shining my e-peen. In the game we have today, I want to win the campaign, gather my spoils, & use them help win the next one. So how is my EK going to be important to me without having an impact on the next campaign? That would take a significant evolution, like Hunger Dome to CW evolution.

... And to keep on topic, why will I want to pay upkeep on my EK? 😋

Edited by VaMei

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1 minute ago, VaMei said:

Agreed, those goals are mutually exclusive without some significant changes or additions.

I'm not interested in bling, flashy skins, or shining my e-peen. In the game we have today, I want to win the campaign, gather my spoils, & use them help win the next one. So how is my EK going to be important to me without having an impact on the next campaign? That would take a significant evolution, like Hunger Dome to CW evolution.

how do you convince people to make walls / gates ect if they cost gold every campaign for upkeep. A majority of players beside people with packs / rpers dont care about eks. 

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2 minutes ago, Bazgul said:

EKs are a different topic, but I agree important,  give me a reason to build there.

dregs will have building and upkeep. factions prob shouldnt. 

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23 minutes ago, VaMei said:

Agreed, those goals are mutually exclusive without some significant changes or additions.

I'm not interested in bling, flashy skins, or shining my e-peen. In the game we have today, I want to win the campaign, gather my spoils, & use them help win the next one. So how is my EK going to be important to me without having an impact on the next campaign? That would take a significant evolution, like Hunger Dome to CW evolution.

... And to keep on topic, why will I want to pay upkeep on my EK? 😋

The problem with using your spoils to help win the next campaign is that it risks the Uncle Bob scenario. That's why imports are limited. That's why EKs have little effect on CWs. There needs to be enough of a reward so that you care about winning, but not so much that it gives you an unfair advantage in the next campaign. It's tough to balance.

One of the possibilities talked about way back in the beginning was tournaments (I think that was the name Todd used for them). The basic idea is that guilds would earn their way into the tournament by winning campaigns. The tournament would be a special campaign that is only available to guilds that have won a certain number of campaigns. It could be a ladder thing, with rankings for each guild. Even if the tournaments were designated as no import, I think the ability to go against the best of the best would provide plenty of incentive to win. They may not care about the spoils (exports), but they would care about their ranking.

 

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No-import, ladder, tournament...

Sounds more like a moba than an mmo. What's the point of *anything* I've done up to this point if it doesn't help me tomorrow?

Or do you have to spend the 1st few hours or days harvesting your butt off to get into gear that's marginally useful? No-import on a 3 month campaign, I'll grudgingly live with. No import on a daily or weekly basis? Hard pass.

I really do not understand all the fascination with no-import campaigns. People do nothing but complain about the level of grind we have, and then they invite hard core power grinding as the best way to win. [smh] And once again, what good is an export that won't become an import?

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Just now, VaMei said:

No-import, ladder, tournament...

Sounds more like a moba than an mmo. What's the point of *anything* I've done up to this point if it doesn't help me tomorrow?

Or do you have to spend the 1st few hours or days harvesting your butt off to get into gear that's marginally useful? No-import on a 3 month campaign, I'll grudgingly live with. No import on a daily or weekly basis? Hard pass.

I really do not understand all the fascination with no-import campaigns. People do nothing but complain about the level of grind we have, and then they invite hard core power grinding as the best way to win. [smh] And once again, what good is an export that won't become an import?

There will be different import and export levels for different campaigns. Campaigns are expected to last for months, rather than what we have now, though I imagine there will be some shorter ones too.

Regarding no-import, that doesn't necessarily mean no vessels, just no gear or resources. If you have a legendary vessel decked out with your chosen disciplines, getting gear isn't that big of a deal. You won't have the best gear possible right away, but you'll be able to get good gear quickly. You've got all of your skill training still, so crafting the best stuff will just be a matter of gearing yourself and finding the items you need.

There may be some campaigns where you have to start with nothing but a common, level 1 vessel. Some people might welcome that. If that isn't your cup of tea, don't join those campaigns.

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37 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Some people might welcome that. If that isn't your cup of tea, don't join those campaigns.

The same could be said of high-import campaigns that "risk the uncle bob scenario."


IhhQKY6.gif

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22 hours ago, Bazgul said:

Upkeep could be items sacrificed to the locations fire pit, so whole faction could help pay, the king takeover might spawn some pvp. Outpost could require guards to be bought, 1-4 guards, 1000gold per level, no guards no points. Just seems keeps/forts are empty except at seige times.

They tried this already.

The funny think is that faction campaigns are full of people who are there specifically to avoid the responsibility and additional upkeep costs that they'd have to have in dregs.

Adding responsibility and additional upkeep costs didn't really work last time they tried it and it's going to work even less when the people who care enough about such things that they DID farm for that stuff move to dregs.

This is simply an idea that is incompatible with faction play as nobody wants to invest personal wealth in to communal property in an environment specifically designed to remove the requirement of caring about your community. Factions are not guilds or alliances. They're barely teams. Expecting anything resembling a high degree of long term cooperation on a faction server will leave you disappointed.

Faction servers in the long term will be full of people who don't play well with others, don't want to play well with others, or don't have time to be valuable to others. These are people who don't view their faction as their responsibility. They view their guild as their responsibility. They're not going to sacrifice loot to a building they will never own that they can just retake next week if that loot can in stead equip a guildmate. This being crowfall, stuff breaks and there will ALWAYS be a guildmate in need of some equipping.

These are not the people you should expect to be generous to the faction with their loot when they can just pass the buck.

I should know. I run a guild full of these people.

You're asking people to pay to renovate the bathroom in an apartment they rent. It's not going to happen.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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If you mean guard upkeep that was done poorly, if you mean something else, then it was before my time.

I think there is a bigger mix of player types than you describe and do believe done right a guild would pay upkeep on a location if services provided were worth while, they currently are not. Other guilds in the owners faction could use the services if they paid a small fee. 

Dregs is currently synonymous with unicorns. 

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5 hours ago, Bazgul said:

If you mean guard upkeep that was done poorly, if you mean something else, then it was before my time.

I think there is a bigger mix of player types than you describe and do believe done right a guild would pay upkeep on a location if services provided were worth while, they currently are not. Other guilds in the owners faction could use the services if they paid a small fee. 

Dregs is currently synonymous with unicorns. 

What you think and what players actually do in practice appear to be two different things. That's all I'm saying.


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On 9/4/2019 at 12:19 PM, VaMei said:

No-import, ladder, tournament...

Sounds more like a moba than an mmo. What's the point of *anything* I've done up to this point if it doesn't help me tomorrow?

I really do not understand all the fascination with no-import campaigns. People do nothing but complain about the level of grind we have, and then they invite hard core power grinding as the best way to win. [smh] And once again, what good is an export that won't become an import?

Believe this is a fundamental issue with Crowfall's concept. They want it to be like a long term match game (MOBA/FPS/RTS), a MMO, and don't want Uncle Bob running the show.

I've yet to see them accomplish any of the three individually, let a lone all three as one design.

One of the things that sold me was the idea that they'd be willing to try lots of ways to play the core game. Something like no imports sounds more entertaining then a Centaur only or no magic campaign. Unfortunately so far their idea of different ways to play is get points by killing people or get points by crafting.

For me, I wouldn't want a no-import grueling grind campaign, but rather higher output resources and what not so that everyone starts relatively equal and then actions after are what matter. Not what I did 5 campaigns ago.

On 9/4/2019 at 12:27 PM, Arkade said:

Campaigns are expected to last for months, rather than what we have now, though I imagine there will be some shorter ones too.

Can't wait to see what they create that will keep everyone entertained for months when a week or two is enough to lose most.

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18 minutes ago, APE said:

One of the things that sold me was the idea that they'd be willing to try lots of ways to play the core game. Something like no imports sounds more entertaining then a Centaur only or no magic campaign. Unfortunately so far their idea of different ways to play is get points by killing people or get points by crafting.

They've actually done no import campaigns already, and I am sure we will see them again.


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