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The New Guild Experience - The Passive and Crafting Problem

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15 hours ago, APE said:

I wonder if lacking a dev tracker is a technical limitation or so their lack of interaction isn't so obvious :ph34r:

LOL don't get me going about that topic. Technical limitation? That cannot be their excuse after a year, just not possible for a software dev team.  I am still waiting for @Pann to update... 

On 7/22/2019 at 12:42 PM, Pann said:

The Dev Tracker got bjorked when we were making some big changes to the website. Now that the dust has (mostly) settled, I've started an internal discussion about if/when we might bring it back. I'll keep you posted as the conversation evolves. 

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19 hours ago, APE said:

Clearly this is planned but we will have to see how it goes. As they have entire systems still MIA, I foresee them adding those in before tweaking or completely redoing what's already in. I can only hope that someone at ACE reads our feedback, understands it, and passes it on. As there surprisingly was a dev response early on, I have some faith in the process. However, the team actually agreeing or being able to do any of it is another story.

Indeed, with so much yet to be properly implemented, and a proper balance patch being rather overdue given the static nature of the meta (feels like W, HoA, and Clams is about 95% Crusader, Earthkeeper, Archer/Brigand, Inquisitor/Fanatic, and Alpha Warrior) it's an obvious waiting game.  Since we're pending Frostweaver, Dregs, and guild bank as the big three next major pieces it's unlikely they can focus much on a tweak to crafting and other systems again for some time.  All we can hope is that we've given them the feedback they need, especially considering the Dev reply giving me a serious "S-senpai... uwu" moment to reference a meme.



Indeed, the passive systems feel like they deserve more in-depth attention on the whole.  That is why some of the ideas in the original post included consideration of tier restricting as well as specialized crafting trees for components, weapons, armor, and more.  It definitely feels like a vertical progression right now, like a lit fuse leading to a bottle rocket and suddenly you shoot straight up before another leveling out.  It just takes a few months for the fuse to hit the powder.

I'm really liking intent and creativity behind your ideas of tier focus and cost reduction and stat spread and restricting stats to tier maximums.  Some of these maybe won't work in practice as offered, but others would go a long way to keeping things horizontal while further expanding how deep this already excellent the core crafting system is.  Like, maybe you wouldn't necessarily be a great green boot maker, you'd just be a great leather armor smith while your guildie might be a great leather component crafter.  Tier focused crafters seems novel but I'm not sure how well that could be implemented without getting convoluted, so simply requiring a certain amount of or point in the passive tree for a particular craft would simply unlock use of that rarity may be a decent compromise.  Alternatively, the specialization craft trees could give special bonuses for rarity a bit similar to harvest specializations, or maybe material type would be the better choice there?  Not only are you a master leather armor smith, you're a legend with soft hide in particular, perhaps?  Regardless of their chosen route, they definitely need to play around with how to front load experimentation points, how points used adjust stats, how risk and experimentation improves stats, how to spread out available stats to craft (because another meta issue seems to be there are only a couple of "good" stats; for example, it's only worth getting crit resist on armor apparently?) and in ensuring new and intermediate crafters can still make things of value.  If ~4 weeks ago (as we've been playing ~2 months) we all could have at least made greens comparable to decent world blue drops with a couple notches higher for the base stat (weapon damage, armor amount) then our new player retention and our experience would be markedly improved since we'd at least feel like we're achieving a sense of progression, even if we'd only be minimally competitive at that point rather than just about now finally approaching the top of the cliff.

Personally, I think a good place to start tweaking and testing would be to heavily front load experimentation points and then require assembly and experimentation success chance for rarer mats and for experimentation risk.  Points themselves would be more additive while high risk would be multiplicative.  Risk and rarity would determine how many points can be applied to a single stat and increase the caps each stat can hit with a roll.  Properly implemented, master crafters would be able to create gear with great focused stats and decent secondary stats given how the caps would work and the multiplicative nature of risky rolls.  This way, newer crafters can make good one stat focused gear with some secondary bonuses while master crafters can make excellent focused gear and great multi-stat gear.

19 hours ago, APE said:

The ability to have campaigns running with countless options is one of the main reasons I backed this concept. If they aren't able to provide enough varied formats to match the varied types of players out there then this likely won't get very far. If they can't come up with more creative rulesets they can at least do the bare minimum of creating some sort of tiered format so it is at least enjoyable in its simplicity for new and old players. This is a real strength of competitive games. Even if a MOBA has 1 map with 1 way to play, at least they have ranks so it is enjoyable for all.


I think they'll manage.  With proper marketing and a solid core system, this game will fill a niche for PvPers that wanted more immediate substance, action, and direction than EVE and that doesn't involve looking at a cosmic void with a spaceship in it 99% of the time.


Not sure anything you or anyone else has mentioned is new. Pretty sure I'm just repeating myself for the nth time. Seems like people come in and accept or move on. Goes quiet then a new wave comes in and repeats. As training hasn't been wiped for a while and several changes have occurred in the last year or so, the current pool is noticing the issue a lot more then in the past. Passive training still doing the same thing it did in the start for the most part though, just with a lot of other unfinished systems in tow now.

Maybe not new, but the extensive and substantive nature of the feedback being far more than the typical "Passive training is something about socks" I most certainly hope is appreciated and will go a long way to giving them a much fuller picture.  Half the reason we went Order wasn't just for hardcore mode or to introduce Player Three to the clearly growing stale dynamics of HAX and co getting a good win sometimes, it was also to try and experience this game in as much of a from-the-ground-up perspective as possible.  We're experiencing a lot of what brand new players post launch risk experiencing and hopefully the feedback goes a long way to significant improvements as resources become available for them.

Edited by Deioth

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None of this matters unless it makes it to the private forum between the Devs and the high dollar players. 



Edited by Darksun_

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