Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Pann

Poll: Passive skill tree wipe

Passive skill tree: Wipe or no wipe?  

162 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Should there be a wipe of the passive skill trees in October?

    • Yes
      55
    • No
      107

  • Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.
  • Poll closed on 10/04/2019 at 12:39 AM

Recommended Posts

Full wipe

I feel like you have to.

We have to test the early stages of combat and crafting. Also we should be looking hard at how fast we want the skill tree to progress. The testing community has to make sure that crafters will be satisfied with what they are able to do in the first few weeks. We also have to look at class balance in the early stages. We know what they are with almost full skill trees but it will not be the same TTK ( time to kill ) with everyone at 0 skills. Also need to make sure that the early stages of healing is not over or under powered. You have 1 chance at launch and you need to make sure the first few weeks-month to be the best is possibly can.

 

Edited by Ginko

n0MnLtK.png?2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Ginko said:

We have to test the early stages of combat and crafting. Also we should be looking hard at how fast we want the skill tree to progress. The testing community has to make sure that crafters will be satisfied with what they are able to do in the first few weeks. We also have to look at class balance in the early stages. We know what they are with almost full skill trees but it will not be the same TTK ( time to kill ) with everyone at 0 skills. Also need to make sure that the early stages of healing is not over or under powered. You have 1 chance at launch and you need to make sure the first few weeks-month to be the best is possibly can.

 

Actually, the testing community has to make sure that crafters, harvesters, and combatants (every player) will be satisfied with what they are able to do in the first several weeks.  

Perhaps start the passive-skills progression ticker at 5x and slowly back it down to 4x... 3x... 2 times, etc, essentially over the coarse of each individual accounts first 12 months+ (or whatever) time frame?  Everyone should have one or two specializations fairly quickly so that they have a good start at how they like to play as individuals.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Silkhe said:

What's 'messed up' is implying that a particular segment of the community should be listened to more so, and with greater impact, than all the rest.

He hasn't implied that. Everyone who has given feedback in this thead is for either a full wipe or no wipe. Nobody has given any feedback in support of a skills-only wipe. The one 'yes' voter who explained his vote said he didn't realize it was skills-only, and that he doesn't see the purpose or benefit of a skills-only wipe.


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ble said:

There needs to be an option of 3) completely delete this system and implement something exponentially less tedious, with monumentally less time to master.  God I hate this skill system.  It’s a complete turn-off for new players.  1) they start playing 2) start to enjoy the game 3) start to understand the game and the importance of passive training, 4) see that they are months behind, 5) go play WoW classic.

Yep. Time locked training is stupid. It creates a barrier to entry, real or imagined. It will always limit the potential customer base. “Catch up” mechanics just prove the system as designed is flawed.

Remove passive training. Add the advantages/disadvantages at character creation. Crafting/gathering/combat stats solely rely on individual toon attributes, gear, and advantages/disadvantages. Change base values of gear to match the difference. 

Greatly reduces the “grind” to compete. Makes the game more fun right from the get go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, oneply said:

Yep. Time locked training is stupid. It creates a barrier to entry, real or imagined. It will always limit the potential customer base. “Catch up” mechanics just prove the system as designed is flawed.

Remove passive training. Add the advantages/disadvantages at character creation. Crafting/gathering/combat stats solely rely on individual toon attributes, gear, and advantages/disadvantages. Change base values of gear to match the difference. 

Greatly reduces the “grind” to compete. Makes the game more fun right from the get go. 

 

Except ACE will then just add some kind of active time wasting component as an alternative to ensure that people aren't able to do everything right away.

The grind as you put it will be increased.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

 

Except ACE will then just add some kind of active time wasting component as an alternative to ensure that people aren't able to do everything right away.

The grind as you put it will be increased.

Theyll never stop that. I’d argue it would be more finically beneficial to do it this way. People will need more accounts or character slots to be able to do it all. That’s a pay day for each. And if an individual wants to take on that task, more power to them. Easier to build around a guild. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, oneply said:

Theyll never stop that. I’d argue it would be more finically beneficial to do it this way. People will need more accounts or character slots to be able to do it all. That’s a pay day for each. And if an individual wants to take on that task, more power to them. Easier to build around a guild. 

 

People already buy more accounts to do everything, I do that, what I mean is preventing people from being able to do everything at max effectiveness from the moment they install the game. ACE will not allow that, no game allows that. You take away passive training as a means to time-gate players capabilities and ACE will add active grinding chores to time-gate people from being able to do things at max level right away.

You are trading a time-gate mechanism which is egalitarian and applied equally to everyone to one that benefits people only who do nothing but play all day doing mindless game chores. We already have that game, it is Albion Online.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

 

People already buy more accounts to do everything, I do that, what I mean is preventing people from being able to do everything at max effectiveness from the moment they install the game. ACE will not allow that, no game allows that. You take away passive training as a means to time-gate players capabilities and ACE will add active grinding chores to time-gate people from being able to do things at max level right away.

You are trading a time-gate mechanism which is egalitarian and applied equally to everyone to one that benefits people only who do nothing but play all day doing mindless game chores. We already have that game, it is Albion Online.

The grinding chores already exist. Still going to need to harvest/trade the mats to make the better vessel and gear. Adjust base values so that a white vessel and gear can’t be max. Would need to do it so some combination of epic/leggo is needed to be “max”. If you feel it’s to easy to obtain those mats adjust drop rate. 

And to my understanding, correct me of I’m wrong, most of us are going to get limited to 3 toon slots at launch. Buying additional slots is a cheaper (more accessible) option than another account. 

I don’t see how allowing a faster path to “relevance” promotes the no lifers. We aren’t talking about a rank up system. 

Edited by oneply

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, oneply said:

Theyll never stop that. I’d argue it would be more finically beneficial to do it this way. People will need more accounts or character slots to be able to do it all.

If the passive training is replaced with grind to skill, then there's zero reason to have multiple accounts, since you can only grind one account at a time. (unless group points are shared, then we'll be seeing skill bots)

Unless there are skill point caps to prevent you from mastering everything, or daily skill point caps to insure it still takes 3 months to get a mastery no matter how much you grind, I see no reason for multiple accounts in a grind to skill game.

Edit: there is no skill system without a downside. It's either a time gate, a time sink, or both. The only other option is to give anyone their choice of skills, but that's not very mmorpg.

Edited by VaMei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, VaMei said:

If the passive training is replaced with grind to skill, then there's zero reason to have multiple accounts, since you can only grind one account at a time. (unless group points are shared, then we'll be seeing skill bots)

Unless there are skill point caps to prevent you from mastering everything, or daily skill point caps to insure it still takes 3 months to get a mastery no matter how much you grind, I see no reason for multiple accounts in a grind to skill game.

Edit: there is no skill system without a downside. It's either a time gate, a time sink, or both. The only other option is to give anyone their choice of skills, but that's not very mmorpg.

i liked Albion online skill tree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, VaMei said:

If the passive training is replaced with grind to skill, then there's zero reason to have multiple accounts, since you can only grind one account at a time. (unless group points are shared, then we'll be seeing skill bots)

Unless there are skill point caps to prevent you from mastering everything, or daily skill point caps to insure it still takes 3 months to get a mastery no matter how much you grind, I see no reason for multiple accounts in a grind to skill game.

Edit: there is no skill system without a downside. It's either a time gate, a time sink, or both. The only other option is to give anyone their choice of skills, but that's not very mmorpg.

Again I have said absolutely nothing about skill caps or ranking up. Nor am I arguing for it. 

Vessel attributes and gear stats equal skill. The grinding is obtaining the materials to make better gear/vessels. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Catch-up mechanic should be a blocker on list of features for 5.110. As it starts alpha stage we are calling people from other games to actively play CF. They won’t come at day 1. They will come in waves. And one of the first questions will be “why can you   farm/craft blues and i cant?, how do i catch up?”. If we have to answer “you can’t, wait for release”, i guess people will follow the advice. Noone wants to be half efficient, because they knew about game/joined community in a wrong moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Silkhe said:

AGREED... Full wipe or no wipe.  Other pertinent info to making an informed decision here is; How fast would the passive multiplier be after full wipe?  Please Redo the poll  😊

 

23 hours ago, Pann said:

Hearing you loud and clear that you don't like the poll. I talked with Todd and QA about our options. As Todd mentioned during the stream, we *must* do a full wipe with 5.11. For that reason, we don't want to do one now; it's not cool to do two full wipes back-to-back like that.

As far as doing a passive skill wipe and then adjusting the training speed, we can set it at a 3% speed increase again, but we aren't able to tweak that number. (Doing so would require some backend work and those take attention away from the actual development of the game). 

 

 

22 hours ago, mandalore said:

When the Dominate guild who’s won every campaign, overwhelmingly tells you that the proposed wipe will only make it easy for them to continue their undefeated devastation of the competition you should take heed.  

22 hours ago, Silkhe said:

It would seem they heard everyone and gave a pretty clear response that the poll will remain 'as is', perhaps until 5.11, and those of us having an undeniable logic of why this doesn't at all address the stated reasoning for such a skill-wipe... obviously we just simply vote 'NO'

 

22 hours ago, mandalore said:

I 100% agree but it’s also worth noting that as the undefeated dictators of the Gods trials WHoA is against anything that gives them more of an advantage  and especially one that is unattainable by new players. 

6 hours ago, Brightdance said:

Actual reasons for a poll or not aside this comment really bothers me. Really? They heard the entire community say this is the wrong way to go about something and decided to ignore all of us? 

That's messed up.

5 hours ago, Silkhe said:

Yes, leaving the poll as is and not altering it as requested by most is bothersome... but Pann's response shouldn't be interpreted as they are flat out ignoring us either?  The response doesn't really imply that, nor unfortunately does it preclude the poll already posted from being continued if they so choose.  I have no evidence that I was being ignored while having said the same thing as most others not in favor of the poll as is.  Do you have some other evidence of intentional community disregard regarding this particular idea?  I simply fail to see your reason for turning this into a drama-filled argument with abrasive innuendos, especially in regards to the topic and the actual context of my reply that you quoted erroneously.  

What's 'messed up' is implying that a particular segment of the community should be listened to more so, and with greater impact, than all the rest.  That was the unnecessary implication and the actual context behind my reply, Brightdance.  No need to make mountains out of mole hills & harmless banter.  

4 hours ago, Jah said:

He hasn't implied that. Everyone who has given feedback in this thead is for either a full wipe or no wipe. Nobody has given any feedback in support of a skills-only wipe. The one 'yes' voter who explained his vote said he didn't realize it was skills-only, and that he doesn't see the purpose or benefit of a skills-only wipe.

If you look at the CONTEXT of my entire discussion Jah, you might see that your final explanation is unwarranted & unnecessary.  I had been in agreement with the majority since the idea had originally surfaced, during the live Q&A.  But Thanks anyway.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, oneply said:

Again I have said absolutely nothing about skill caps or ranking up. Nor am I arguing for it. 

Vessel attributes and gear stats equal skill. The grinding is obtaining the materials to make better gear/vessels. 

 

So you would just eliminate the skills all together, and when you change your cloths, you've changed your profession. Anyone with high Int and good gear is both a master craftsmen and a master harvester, with some trades gaining some additional benefit from either strength or dex. Since everyone can do everything on their own, no one needs anyone for anything. 

That does not sound like a game I want to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, VaMei said:

So you would just eliminate the skills all together, and when you change your cloths, you've changed your profession. Anyone with high Int and good gear is both a master craftsmen and a master harvester, with some trades gaining some additional benefit from either strength or dex. Since everyone can do everything on their own, no one needs anyone for anything. 

That does not sound like a game I want to play.

Change what attributes effect which stats. Con and spirit have no purpose in the attribute to skill calculations for crafting and essentially harvesting. Make use of them. 

Adjust drop rates so it takes a greater amount of time to acquire the resources. 

Advantages/disadvantages system at creation can also play into it. Can’t be a max crafter without taking the specific craft advantage. Which automatically applies a disadvantage that makes them worse at a craft with same attributes requirements. 

Disciplines still apply in this system. Techniques passive for instance limit one toon for maxing multiple crafts. Could also remove exploration slots and turn them into majors/minors. Further driving the specialization of a specific toon.

A great deal of complexity can be added without skill trees and ranks. And sorry but if player A invests more time into the game than player B they deserve to progress faster. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/26/2019 at 3:03 PM, Jah said:

A passive skill wipe that left the existing vessels and loot in place would not help. While the passive skills would be equalized, nobody would be able to make vessels and gear to match those held by existing vets, so you are left with the same (or worse) level of demotivation for new players.

If you want to take the step of wiping because it is an easy bone to throw the LIVE service while you are heads-down on the next build, I would suggest:

1) Full wipe of passive skills, vessels, banks.

2) Carrot of a long Trial campaign to compete over as part of the start-over process. I would suggest 2 months.

A fresh start with a long Trial campaign could be a good way to hold over the players while we wait for the next build.

solid reasoning. Although my training for 2 1/2 months since starting is just getting interesting, the reasoning is sound.


ShadowBane - Former IC of Societas Daemonica (2005 -2014)

ShadowBane - Former IC Nordic Chapter SB (2004)

ShadowBane -  Former IC / NL of House of Atreides, Damnation (2003-2004)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m in favor of a no for a passive wipe. Even if it was a complete wipe I’d still say no. Reason being is because of the new patch coming out in February a wipe/full wipe would be pointless in the limited amount of time between now and then. For anyone not understanding why, by the time the passives build up to max craft items/vessels it would already be February if not close to. So you are looking at a month or two month window of testing out end game content, instead of now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/26/2019 at 12:46 PM, Pann said:

During the ACE Q&A for September live stream, Todd spoke about the possibility of doing a passive skill tree wipe. (The segment begins at the 19:30 mark). As Todd stated, passive training has been running for quite some time now, at an accelerated pace. 

Simply bumping everyone up to max levels isn't an option. That would require engineering time that we don't want to divert from development of the game itself. 

Note that this would be passive skills only. The wipe would not include characters, Eternal Kingdoms or banks. 

Please vote and leave comments in the thread if you so choose. 

I wish I could vote yes to this but since this is for "ONLY" passive skills I can not. I wish this topic would have been taken up months ago when we were talking about it in the forums and we had a wipe coming or just happened don't remember which :) The whole point of that thread was to bring new players in or give the current new players at the time a better chance to stand up. This would only make it harder for those players if you do just passives now. 

Allowing everyone to keep gear and vessels allows us to just make a ton of max gear and bank it so we have it for along time. This would actually hurt the game!

On a side note love to see the powers that be asking these questions though. I think it says a lot of the quality of team that has an interest in its players bases opinion. Keep it up! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a simple poll for a Yes or No vote for passive skill tree wipe. End of discussion. All other ideas and implementations are great but should be discussed elsewhere, I simply do not want the Developers to waste any time on trying to satisfy those that are salty. Yes or No, be lucky they are asking us for our opinions, because they really don't have to. In the end I absolutely love this game and think the developers are on a great track to making a truly unique game. I look forward to seeing this new patch in February!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...