Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Requiem_MDK

Returning player with questions

Recommended Posts

Haven’t played or kept up with crowfall in a year, I was sad to see passive training gone, with little time to play that was one of the features I really liked especially saving time to a tome for newer players to progress faster, seemed like a cool level/economy concept . But from what I read it seemed like it didn't work in practice? Anything other then afk SB power leveling I guess lol.  Not sure if they thought about doing some kind combination where you can have passive training but also level in game buy trading XP or resources for time/pips like the current sacrifice, that way if you don't have as much time you still get some progression but if you play you are not time gated. However it seems like leveling is based on vessel and not by account now so maybe it’s not possible,  really liked the by account system *Shrug*

 

anyway the questions I have while I try and get re-familiar with the game before alpha.

 

  1. Since passive training is gone do we know what VIP does?
  2. Is leveling vessels slow? Dependent on vessel quality? Or We don’t know yet? Since xp is based on sacrifice can’t you just buy things to sacrifice?
  3. Once you get to a high level vessel what’s the end game of winning campaigns or dregs, are those resources specific to EK?  Give some benefit to the next campaign Or we really don’t know? Thoughts?
  4. I have 2016 large castle and it doesn’t seem like the trusted traders want to give me much for it and since I won’t be able to play as much will I be able to sell these lands/forts/castles in games to maybe help buy much better vessels to lower my grind?
  5. Extra charcter slots in our packs, does this mean  I have extra vessel to switch between?
  6. Best new player tutorial ? I thought I got a recent crowfall e-mail with a beginner tutorial but can’t find that email or know what’s the most relevant tutorial going forward? Prefer text (So I can be lazy at work) but video works I guess.

 

Thanks for helping an old SB player, hoping this game turns out well even with what seems to be a lot of hiccups the last year. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Requiem_MDK said:
  1. Since passive training is gone do we know what VIP does?
  2. Is leveling vessels slow? Dependent on vessel quality? Or We don’t know yet? Since xp is based on sacrifice can’t you just buy things to sacrifice?
  3. Once you get to a high level vessel what’s the end game of winning campaigns or dregs, are those resources specific to EK?  Give some benefit to the next campaign Or we really don’t know? Thoughts?
  4. I have 2016 large castle and it doesn’t seem like the trusted traders want to give me much for it and since I won’t be able to play as much will I be able to sell these lands/forts/castles in games to maybe help buy much better vessels to lower my grind?
  5. Extra charcter slots in our packs, does this mean  I have extra vessel to switch between?
  6. Best new player tutorial ? I thought I got a recent crowfall e-mail with a beginner tutorial but can’t find that email or know what’s the most relevant tutorial going forward? Prefer text (So I can be lazy at work) but video works I guess.

 

Welcome back to the forums.

Just a few and short answers. I am sure other will be able to tell more.

1. Passive training is not gone. It's just that VIP won't give you 3 instead of 2 training options (now everybody has 2).

2. White vessel maybe 2 hours max. White needs about 17k sacrifice points, green 30k, blue 50k, purple 90k, orange 125k (all roundabout). Nearly everything can be sacrificed, but depending on the quality level of the item, it won't give SP at some point anymore (like white give no SP anymore for a green vessel lvl 13). So yes, you can buy. But looting should make more sense.

4. It's currently not possible to pass stronghold pieces on ingame. Maybe later, maybe not.

5. No information yet. But since 6 slots are open ingame, with 3 slots greyed out ... it seems to be so.

Have fun


2W1ZHpA.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks kraahk,

The two VIP thing  doesn't seem as helpful with only exploration / crafting involved. Someone in game said they maybe revamping it. If that's what they are using to fund the game im not sure that will be enough. maybe sacrifice bonus kind of like eso had its  10% xp bonus.

What's the max level Per vessel?

 

I'm going to try and get in game this week to get ready for decapathon 2 next week. I need to get use to talking on headphones as I'm old (40 lol) / shy and wsy too use to text games.

Well hopefully I can sell castle in game or it might be worth selling for pennies on the dollar don't want to log into a big old Empty castle  That doesn't do anything for me. 

Best way to get prepared for next week? Crafting or drops? Wish I had played more of these events this year. 

Edited by Requiem_MDK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Requiem_MDK said:

[...]

What's the max level Per vessel?

[...]

Best way to get prepared for next week? Crafting or drops? Wish I had played more of these events this year. 

Max level is 30.

Here are some additional short infos that should be enough to get you started after a longer absence:

Levels apply additional hitpoints, so level up before you go to campaigns. Level up in God's Reach. This is my basic first steps recommendation:

  • Go to the God's Reach campaign and kill spiders in the first starter area until you are at about level 5. 
  • Go on to the portal to the temple, then immediately go on to the temples portal and enter the rank-5 island.
  • There's a camp right south to the rank-5 islands portal, spend your leveling time there, focussing on Elite NPC's (better drops).

Additional recommendations:

  • Spend your attribute points (i) and talent points (t) every time you level up.
  • Save your stuff as often as you can, by using the world bank (b).
  • Equip the best newly looted armor and weapons (wpn with dmg 70 should be the end of the ladder). Save the best of each type you dont need for later use. Sacrifice the rest.
  • Sell all discipline runes you find and don't need (drag&drop @ any vendor). They give the most money.
  • Save EVERY artifact you can find. There's an artifact station in the mentioned camp, which you can use to craft artifact binds which give a LOT of sacrifice points.
  • Anything else you loot can just be sacrificed (for now).
  • Once you have enough gold, buy a pack pig saddle (at the temples central, go to the market area, the vendor is in the first quarter on the left side, 1200 gold). Equip it (i) and equip it's ability (k) in order to have the ability to travel faster.

Of course use bandages to heal, keep your chicken ticker on the top left at at least 7/10 and go back to harvesting mode (h) every time you don't fight, to heal faster.

Once you are there, you got some basic training/vessel/equipment and should be able to compete a little bit. At least enough to be an asset to a guild that may provide you with better vessels. If not, go for some harvesting an trade with the rare drop chaos embers. High end crafters are looking for them, while basic players can harvest them.

Hope this helps.

Have fun, good luck
Kraahk

 

Edited by Kraahk

2W1ZHpA.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Kraahk said:

 

  • Go to the God's Reach campaign and kill spiders in the first starter area until you are at about level 5. 
  • Go on to the portal to the temple, then immediately go on to the temples portal and enter the rank-5 island.
  • There's a camp right south to the rank-5 islands portal, spend your leveling time there, focussing on Elite NPC's (better drops).

 

Dude this sounds like I'm going to noob island in  shadowbane lol 

Thank you for this, most help I've gotten in awhile. I log  in and have no idea what to do so I start cutting down trees and I don't really want to craft.

I do  have  the base  crafting / exploration  as I must have started training at some point since last wipe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To piggyback off what Kraahk posted (thanks, buddy! 👍) :

1. We have some ideas for what VIP will consist of, but it doesn't affect your passive skill training anymore. There haven't been any announcements on how VIP will adjust, but we want to stay as far from anything considered pay-to-win as we can.

2. Kraahk posted some good numbers, but I wanted to reiterate that leveling up isn't solely done through sacrifice. You can also fight NPCs in the world to earn experience, but be aware that the NPCs that count will depend on your vessel's quality and level (just like item sacrifice).

3. There were some recent sanctioned Campaigns that gave prizes (the Trials of the Gods). Currently, though, Campaigns are for bragging rights. In the future there will be a variety of prizes available depending on the Campaign.

4. Kraahk got this one.

5. Yes, you can have multiple vessels and swap between them whenever you like. They can be in different worlds, have different levels, be different Race/Class combinations, etc. You can also delete vessels by clicking the little red trash can icon in your vessel list, but be aware we can't restore them if you do that.

6. We have a How to Play page for the basics, and the FAQs get more in-depth in separate systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Requiem_MDK said:

Dude this sounds like I'm going to noob island in  shadowbane lol 

Thank you for this, most help I've gotten in awhile. I log  in and have no idea what to do so I start cutting down trees and I don't really want to craft.

I do  have  the base  crafting / exploration  as I must have started training at some point since last wipe.

Yeah, thats the basic idea. ;)

In the current build there is no need to craft things yourself at all. Once you need crafted stuff, you should be enough into the game to have access to some high-end crafters. Until then the best loot from rank-5 mobs is good enough.


2W1ZHpA.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kraahk said:

 

  • Once you have enough gold, buy a pack pig saddle (at the temples central, go to the market area, the vendor is in the first quarter on the left side, 1200 gold). Equip it (i) and equip it's ability (k) in order to have the ability to travel faster.

 

If I have store bought pack pig are these importable?

33 minutes ago, ACE_JackalBark said:

To piggyback off what Kraahk posted (thanks, buddy! 👍) :

1. We have some ideas for what VIP will consist of, but it doesn't affect your passive skill training anymore. There haven't been any announcements on how VIP will adjust, but we want to stay as far from anything considered pay-to-win as we can.

2. Kraahk posted some good numbers, but I wanted to reiterate that leveling up isn't solely done through sacrifice. You can also fight NPCs in the world to earn experience, but be aware that the NPCs that count will depend on your vessel's quality and level (just like item sacrifice).

3. There were some recent sanctioned Campaigns that gave prizes (the Trials of the Gods). Currently, though, Campaigns are for bragging rights. In the future there will be a variety of prizes available depending on the Campaign.

4. Kraahk got this one.

5. Yes, you can have multiple vessels and swap between them whenever you like. They can be in different worlds, have different levels, be different Race/Class combinations, etc. You can also delete vessels by clicking the little red trash can icon in your vessel list, but be aware we can't restore them if you do that.

6. We have a How to Play page for the basics, and the FAQs get more in-depth in separate systems.

Thank you, good to know fighting also gives xp

 thanks for how to play link, wasn’t sure how updated certain Links where. 

** I hope you bring back the importance of EKs from what I’ve read they seem to have lost their importance and I have a castle to keep or not to keep (mild pun). 

 Pretty excited to start playing again. see you guys in game soon, if I can get off noob island without a buff bot lol

 

Edited by Requiem_MDK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None of the website store or kickstarter mounts are importable a the moment.

Presently, you can go to an NPC vendor in the campaign temples and buy the standard mount for 1200 gold. You can loot a recipe to upgrade that mount to a faster epic one, which costs a bunch of leather and some chaos embers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HI Kraahk,

I did what you said and actually had a lot of fun playing however no one seemed to know where the artifact station was and I didn't see it next to the other crafting stations. I have a bunch of artifacts I saved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Requiem_MDK said:

HI Kraahk,

I did what you said and actually had a lot of fun playing however no one seemed to know where the artifact station was and I didn't see it next to the other crafting stations. I have a bunch of artifacts I saved.

Artifact stations are in the war tribe camps, but only certain camps have working tables. If you are still in Joveth, you can go to the rank 5 zone, to the Satyr camp directly south of the gate. There are 2 artifact stations in that camp. There's one or two in the rank 6 zone as well, in the aracoix camp to the far southwest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long does it take to hit level 30? Is PvP basically not viable until you hit level 30? What's the general game loop at right now at level 30? 70% crafting/gathering 30% doing PvP objectives? Are there even any PvP objectives?

I last played many months ago and literally cried myself off the server when I began the terrible PvE experience and realized it was going to be this mindless grind. I was bored to death after like 15 minutes and was hoping this would be addressed later or at least made more interesting. There are literally Asian grinder MMORPGs out there with a better PvE experience.

If this is the future of the game loop I might have to seriously reconsider my interest, though I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys this kind of stuff, I guess. I really mostly just want to PvP, not spend most of my gaming time punching trees down or mindlessly grinding in PvE lol, and was hoping the crafting/harvesting stuff would be a choice rather than a requirement (or, so far, the whole point of the game).

Edited by Nightmarian

Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Nightmarian said:

How long does it take to hit level 30? Is PvP basically not viable until you hit level 30? What's the general game loop at right now at level 30? 70% crafting/gathering 30% doing PvP objectives? Are there even any PvP objectives?

I last played many months ago and literally cried myself off the server when I began the terrible PvE experience and realized it was going to be this mindless grind. I was bored to death after like 15 minutes and was hoping this would be addressed later or at least made more interesting. There are literally Asian grinder MMORPGs out there with a better PvE experience.

If this is the future of the game loop I might have to seriously reconsider my interest, though I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys this kind of stuff, I guess. I really mostly just want to PvP, not spend most of my gaming time punching trees down or mindlessly grinding in PvE lol, and was hoping the crafting/harvesting stuff would be a choice rather than a requirement (or, so far, the whole point of the game).

Crafting and harvesting is a choice. In a guild, players can have different roles. Some players will focus more on harvesting and crafting while others will focus more on combat. Your job might be to protect the people doing the harvesting, which means you patrol an area looking for enemies while your harvesters are doing their thing. Or you might be called upon to siege a keep or take a fort. 

Outside of a guild, you'll have to rely on the economy more if you want to avoid harvesting and crafting. That will still mean that you'll have to do some activities like killing war tribe mobs to acquire gold/loot for trade, but killing chiefs and kings can be considered a potential PvP activity since with more people, there should be more competition to kill them.

Getting to level 30 on a common vessel takes about 2 hours. It's very easy if you know what you are doing. And if you have things saved that you can readily sacrifice, it's even quicker. Crafted vessels will take longer depending on the quality of the vessel, but again, if you save sacrifice materials like the war tribe artifacts, you can level up quickly.

You'll want to be at least level 25 IMO to engage in PvP. Level 25 is when you can get the endcap of your promotion talents. You'll also want to get some gear, but thanks to drops from war tribes, you can get a decent set of gear pretty easily without having to craft at all. It won't be exactly what you want for your build, but it will be good enough to fight in.

In 5.110, they are adding tasks that will contribute to the war effort. These are things that will involve harvesting, crafting and combat, but they are all pvp activities in a way since they will all force you into the pvp areas to complete them. As the population ramps up, these activities will become more and more dangerous. Even if you aren't doing them, other people will be, and that will provide you with opportunities for combat.

Caravans will also be added. Protecting and attacking caravans will be an important part of the game, particularly in the dregs, as city building will be dependent on the materials obtained from refineries. 

This game will never be an FPS or MOBA. If that's the level of PvP activity you are looking for, you are probably going to be disappointed. Keeps aren't going to be siegable 24/7 and there aren't always going to be caravans running. With more people playing, there will be more people out looking for fights, so maybe that will be enough to keep things interesting for you. And you can always plan your play times based on the siege schedule. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Arkade said:

Crafting and harvesting is a choice. In a guild, players can have different roles. Some players will focus more on harvesting and crafting while others will focus more on combat. Your job might be to protect the people doing the harvesting, which means you patrol an area looking for enemies while your harvesters are doing their thing. Or you might be called upon to siege a keep or take a fort. 

Outside of a guild, you'll have to rely on the economy more if you want to avoid harvesting and crafting. That will still mean that you'll have to do some activities like killing war tribe mobs to acquire gold/loot for trade, but killing chiefs and kings can be considered a potential PvP activity since with more people, there should be more competition to kill them.

Getting to level 30 on a common vessel takes about 2 hours. It's very easy if you know what you are doing. And if you have things saved that you can readily sacrifice, it's even quicker. Crafted vessels will take longer depending on the quality of the vessel, but again, if you save sacrifice materials like the war tribe artifacts, you can level up quickly.

You'll want to be at least level 25 IMO to engage in PvP. Level 25 is when you can get the endcap of your promotion talents. You'll also want to get some gear, but thanks to drops from war tribes, you can get a decent set of gear pretty easily without having to craft at all. It won't be exactly what you want for your build, but it will be good enough to fight in.

In 5.110, they are adding tasks that will contribute to the war effort. These are things that will involve harvesting, crafting and combat, but they are all pvp activities in a way since they will all force you into the pvp areas to complete them. As the population ramps up, these activities will become more and more dangerous. Even if you aren't doing them, other people will be, and that will provide you with opportunities for combat.

Caravans will also be added. Protecting and attacking caravans will be an important part of the game, particularly in the dregs, as city building will be dependent on the materials obtained from refineries. 

This game will never be an FPS or MOBA. If that's the level of PvP activity you are looking for, you are probably going to be disappointed. Keeps aren't going to be siegable 24/7 and there aren't always going to be caravans running. With more people playing, there will be more people out looking for fights, so maybe that will be enough to keep things interesting for you. And you can always plan your play times based on the siege schedule. 

Thanks for the reply. I'm not expecting the game to be an FPS or MOBA, but so far pretty much every game that has PvP as an afterthought has a better PvP design focused around rewarding you for... PvPing. Maybe this will get better down the road when all these things you mentioned are actually added to the game and the population gets bigger, but from what I'm reading a ton of people spend a lot of time in God's Reach.

Where it up to me, there would be no safe zones in the game. No leveling up either, but eh,  since it's here, leveling should be dangerous at all times and you should viably be able to earn xp through killing other players of your same/higher level or through being opportunistic (guilds/raiding groups), or maybe through other means like scouting or crafting for you guild (which would encourage you to actively be a part of the guild instead of having them pat you on the head and tell you to begone and mindlessly grind until you "grow up" at level 30). With proper design, like maybe being able to hit the first few levels (5 max) in a safe starting area to teach the game, this would work fine in most game types, as leveling will always be dangerous. This is the draw of many open world pvp games of old and even lazy hybrids like WoW that so far Crowfall utterly fails to capture that. Even EvE does this better by make non-secure secs vastly more enticing through overwhelming risk/rewards. Playing it safe is generally the slow ineffective route rather than the natural choice like in Crowfall atm.

It shouldn't even be a concern in the dregs, so I'll skip worry about it until we get there.

Crafters should never be safe. They should find a copse of trees to hide in and secretly craft and travel across the land with eyes on every horizon or invest in guards or guild protection. Finding a crafter's little hideout should be something players are capable of and should be a risk/reward of crafters who don't hire protection or use guild/faction protection (which should still be technically dangerous through siege or stealthy intrusion).

The option for stories of heists about guilds stealing amazing crafted gear right from the corpses of crafters should exist, but right now crafters just sit in saftey, completely bypassing the PvP metagame.

IMO, nearly everything in the game should have some element of risk and should ultimately encourage PvP, whether that's fighting for resources, leveling spots, safe crafting havens etc. Distrupting a guild's crafting ability by punishing their crafters should be an option, etc. I've played many PvP games in my time and it's baffling that even some of the more terrible ones have a better world PvP experience than Crowfall so far, as the battles for resources or protecting faction leveling spaces ensured there was something worthwhile to do at all times.

Especially since Crowfall is supposed to focus specifically on these competitive elements and PvP itself while these other games had a very strong PvE component that is already vastly superior to Crowfall's (and probably always will be).

I thought this might have been just me, but I've already seen similar complaints echoed by many other players after reading through reddit and the forums, so I don't think I'm alone. I'll be fair and say it could be an early development issue or population issue, but I doubt it, and steps taking by devs (like dropping PvP loot from mobs) shows that they're realizing this is going to be a problem. I'm sure some people would like to spend four hours in a safe zone gathering basic mats or grinding then pvping for an hour only to do it all over again, but many of us won't.

The guilds that won't need everyone pulling weight will probably be massive, and even then I have a hard time imagining those guilds not requiring even their "muscle" to help gather materials as they are separate lines and something they could do instead of standing around "guarding".

As it stands, there's just not a lot of incentive to take risks and so not a lot of incentive to PvP. Most PvP I've seen so far seems mostly planned (I'll give it a pass to population issues). If I wanted structured PvP matchmaking then, well, I'd play a game with that. Crowfall was supposed to be about political PvP, i.e. lots of incentives forcing conflict like limited space, time, and resources, but right now none of that is true. The game is nothing like EvE either, which it professes to take inspiration from.

Again, I'm starting to realize that this just might not be the game many of us hoped it would be (There are some people who are very happy that it's a economy/crafter first game and PvP game second), but I'm leaning towards Camelot Unchained now since it seems to have many less steps to actually PvPing and pretty much everything outside the cosmetic safe towns is focused around PvP and control. Hopefully it'll release someday...

Edited by Nightmarian

Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO after coming back for barley a week and being an old Shadowbane player this game to me is a perfect blend of economy /pvp. If you have no leveling it’s a pointless FPS if you have too slow leveling and no safe zones to level (be it by saving sacrifice items or leveling in GR) then it’s not really pvp it’s a gank fest. I want competition , I agree resource characters (miners etc) need to be in unsafe zones and have guards but not really crafters. So far I’m liking everything I’m seeing , even the PvE is better then I thought it would be. at first i didn’t like the change to remove race/class  passive leveling but the idea one can create join the game with friends a year after the game is out and be leveled instantly with help from friends is fantastic, he still won’t be good since he’s new and the base combat passive will still need to wait but he can most definitely help. I don’t know many games I’ve either not played or not gone back to because I would be to far behind. Those are just my thoughts on my recent play over the last week and what I see coming with the next 5.11 patch, haven’t been this excited since kick starter.
 

** only complaint is make EK an important and needed thing.

 1. Having  VIP lets you Keep your EK up for 24 hrs after log out? 
2. if you want to use someone else EK you can designate that your home so that EK loads when you log in not a separate EK. Saves server memory and would be perfect for guilds

 honestly though I hadn’t heard Much on EK improvement’s so maybe these are Already a thing.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Nightmarian said:

Thanks for the reply. I'm not expecting the game to be an FPS or MOBA, but so far pretty much every game that has PvP as an afterthought has a better PvP design focused around rewarding you for... PvPing. Maybe this will get better down the road when all these things you mentioned are actually added to the game and the population gets bigger, but from what I'm reading a ton of people spend a lot of time in God's Reach.

People spend a lot of time in GR because:

  1. There are mobs and resources up to rank 8. This will be adjusted. They may keep the rank 8 mobs, but if we can't get good loot from them in GR, then that will force people to go to the campaigns.
  2. Crafting in campaigns is too much of a problem due to import and export restrictions. Anyone who is a serious crafter will have crafting gear, including armor, jewelry, recipe books, items like goggles, tablet, hammers, etc. It just isn't practical to import and export these things into a campaign. The only incentive for crafting inside a campaign is to get the keep buffs, but we can get that in the keeps in the Infected world. You also have to consider that campaigns are very short right now. I could bring my crafters in with minimal gear and make/find what I need, but that is going to take time. The campaign will be over by the time I get my crafter to the same level they are outside the campaign.
  3. Campaigns have level restrictions and if people want to try out different builds or level a crafted vessel, they have to do it in GR until at least level 20.
58 minutes ago, Nightmarian said:

Where it up to me, there would be no safe zones in the game. No leveling up either, but eh,  since it's here, leveling should be dangerous at all times and you should viably be able to earn xp through killing other players of your same/higher level or through being opportunistic (guilds/raiding groups), or maybe through other means like scouting or crafting for you guild (which would encourage you to actively be a part of the guild instead of having them pat you on the head and tell you to begone and mindlessly grind until you "grow up" at level 30). With proper design, like maybe being able to hit the first few levels (5 max) in a safe starting area to teach the game, this would work fine in most game types, as leveling will always be dangerous. This is the draw of many open world pvp games of old and even lazy hybrids like WoW that so far Crowfall utterly fails to capture that. Even EvE does this better by make non-secure secs vastly more enticing through overwhelming risk/rewards. Playing it safe is generally the slow ineffective route rather than the natural choice like in Crowfall atm.

Having no safe zones isn't practical. You can't throw new players to the wolves and expect them to stick around. Sure, some people might be willing to tough it out, but many will leave and that isn't good for the game. Level 5 in other games might be meaningful, but it isn't in Crowfall. That isn't nearly enough to learn the game as you won't even have most of your abilities yet. Fortunately, the leveling is very quick. People who are focused on playing in campaigns will get there far quicker than they got off newbie island in Shadowbane. 

It isn't the leveling that needs to be the dangerous activity, it's everything else. In Shadowbane, it was common for lower level players to get attacked by higher levels and be completely unable to fight back. That doesn't need to be a thing in CF. Leveling in safe zones and gear from war tribes gives everyone a fighting chance. Newer players will probably still get rolled, but at least they will be more competitive.

58 minutes ago, Nightmarian said:

Crafters should never be safe. They should find a copse of trees to hide in and secretly craft and travel across the land with eyes on every horizon or invest in guards or guild protection. Finding a crafter's little hideout should be something players are capable of and should be a risk/reward of crafters who don't hire protection or use guild/faction protection (which should still be technically dangerous through siege or stealthy intrusion).

Frankly, this is a ridiculous take. You may not value crafters and see them as only fodder for you to kill, but you will be very grateful for them when they are crafting stuff for you, whether you are in a guild or not. I don't know if the crafting tables will remain in the temples, but my guess is that they will. Prior to them being added to temples, they were only in forts and keeps. If your faction didn't control a fort or keep, then you couldn't craft. You may think that's a good thing as it would promote PvP to get those forts and keeps, but it creates an Uncle Bob scenario where the winning side keeps winning because they have access to the best gear and the other side doesn't. And just as you want to fight and not be bothered with crafting and harvesting, there are people who want to craft and not have to siege keeps to do it. Hardcore gameplay is fine, but the more hardcore you make it, the more you narrow your audience, and ultimately that isn't good for the game. I'm not saying that the game should cater to everyone, but a balance must be struck. If you don't want to craft, then you need people who do want to.

 

20 minutes ago, Requiem_MDK said:

** only complaint is make EK an important and needed thing.

 1. Having  VIP lets you Keep your EK up for 24 hrs after log out? 
2. if you want to use someone else EK you can designate that your home so that EK loads when you log in not a separate EK. Saves server memory and would be perfect for guilds

 honestly though I hadn’t heard Much on EK improvement’s so maybe these are Already a thing.

 

 

They intend to take vendors out of GR and put the focus back on EK markets. Right now, only the owner of the EK can start the EK, but they intend for nobles to be able to start it as well. Being able to keep the EK up longer as a VIP is a good idea, as long as players can earn the same thing in-game without VIP. 

EK stuff is pretty much on hold right now as they work on the Dregs. No doubt we will see some improvements to EKs in 5.110 as city building is shared between Dregs and EKs. Many of the buildings that we will be placing in the Dregs may also be available for EKs, and I imagine they will fix at least some of the existing bugs with building.

Edited by Arkade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Arkade said:

People spend a lot of time in GR because:

  1. There are mobs and resources up to rank 8. This will be adjusted. They may keep the rank 8 mobs, but if we can't get good loot from them in GR, then that will force people to go to the campaigns.
  2. Crafting in campaigns is too much of a problem due to import and export restrictions. Anyone who is a serious crafter will have crafting gear, including armor, jewelry, recipe books, items like goggles, tablet, hammers, etc. It just isn't practical to import and export these things into a campaign. The only incentive for crafting inside a campaign is to get the keep buffs, but we can get that in the keeps in the Infected world. You also have to consider that campaigns are very short right now. I could bring my crafters in with minimal gear and make/find what I need, but that is going to take time. The campaign will be over by the time I get my crafter to the same level they are outside the campaign.
  3. Campaigns have level restrictions and if people want to try out different builds or level a crafted vessel, they have to do it in GR until at least level 20.

1. I sincerely hope that is the case, but until it happens I will comment on what we are currently testing instead of what I hope they eventually do.

2+3. Good. Import/export should be "too much of a problem" as it's the whole reason they exist. You should need to struggle from scratch as much as anyone else in a campaign with the only consistent benefit being your spirit crow and whatever scant resources import rules allow. Using ArtCraft's silly little board game example, you normally don't play start fresh in a board game halfway through its gameplay loop. Dregs will probably solve this issue as well as normal campaigns forcing people to go through import rules, but eh who knows. I'll agree with you for now though and chalk it up to testing environment. 

Quote

Having no safe zones isn't practical. You can't throw new players to the wolves and expect them to stick around. Sure, some people might be willing to tough it out, but many will leave and that isn't good for the game. Level 5 in other games might be meaningful, but it isn't in Crowfall. 

Well, I do think it's practical. Or rather, it can be. This is directly a failure of Crowfall rather than anything intangible. Many (more complex) games have successfully taught players in less time Crowfall attempts to, and the best ones do it organically (Crowfall does not). Crowfall's current "learning curve" is still terrible, so I'm not sure what benefit you're seeing here. They need a much better tutorial and it definitely should take less than "2 hours to hit 30 but only if you're prepared and already know what you're doing". That's more than enough time for players to get bored and quit. There's also no actual gameplay impact to this and it's teaching them nothing about core aspects of the game like the pvp meta (which players will need to teach) or general combat against other players. Just the very basics of crafting and the generic kill x mob to get x reward stuff...

There's also something to be said about forcing community interaction - something that's supposed to be core to the game. On top of that, I'd imagine just as many people will be turned off by the poor PvE experience after comparing it to just about literally every other MMORPG or confusion as to why they're grinding uninteresting mobs with PvP abilities in a PvP game. One of my friends tried the game on my account and quit for literally that reason, so it's by no means a long stretch.

Quote

It isn't the leveling that needs to be the dangerous activity, it's everything else. In Shadowbane, it was common for lower level players to get attacked by higher levels and be completely unable to fight back.

This is a design flaw and can and should be fixed. Many old games did many terrible/stupid things that wouldn't go over well today, but that doesn't mean we should give up on finding better ways to do them. That's literally what genre evolution/modernization is and, again, has been done literally thousands of times by other games. Shadowbane is old. Nod at it, get inspiration from it maybe, but leave that old rotting game in its grave. 

As for the levels, well, I keep hearing levels are to add a"learning" curve for new players but still don't know what it's supposed to teach or how it functionally improves on the gameloop at all the way it is now.

Quote

Frankly, this is a ridiculous take. You may not value crafters and see them as only fodder for you to kill,

Ironically, I thought your own take ridiculous. And, honestly, I really feel that I'm the one who cares about crafters because no, they're not just fodder to me - they are players who should be playing the campaigns - the core offering of the game. Right now they're background NPCs with no real presence in the meta aspects of the game other than delivery of pre-crafted items. I would much prefer they become part of the mental game of guilds and players - the risk and reward of crafting near sieges or battlegrounds, the tactical decision of where you build your cities (or what cities you take) and how safe they might be for crafters, or the constant harassing of crafters as a viable tactic if guilds/factions don't protect them as well as supply lines.

This actually mimics real life - armies depended very heavily on the support they received. I'm a former soldier, and even today there's an old ideology that for every 1 soldier that fights there are 10 others supporting him in some way. Veteran/intelligent commanders understood this and they at times made many other actions more effective targets than just killing peoples. I.e. destroy an army's supply of food and/or water and you destroy the army. 

As things are right now those like you are the ones who don't value crafters. You see them as simple tools, a means to the end, and you just don't want to risk your or your guild's little account/alt sweatshops. Meanwhile I want there to be risk/reward for most aspects of the game and for players to be actively thinking about how they do things exactly along the lines of those risks and rewards. That's how you create tension, conflict, and keep things interesting. That means putting crafters in a position where they are vulnerable. Mindless and pointless killing is boring, which is a huge problem with the rinse/repeat format in other games with PvP. Killing that has an impact on the game state or what you do - like crippling a guild's crafting ability - gives the killing meaning and agency.  Again, using ArtCraft's boardgame analogy, if you've played any good wargames this is exactly the kind of stuff they love doing to great effect.

You also see that this works well in a lot of other game genres with pvp that are resource dependent/tactical and naturally it then improves the opportunities for tactical gameplay as a result. Doesn't happen in MMORPGs outside a few excepts (EvE only, maybe?), but yeah.

I honestly can't imagine how letting crafters craft in complete saftey with safely stacked/crafted sets of perfect crafting gear is in any way a good thing other than for the crafters... I mean, I'd like to break down a castle or suck in resources without anyone bothering me, as well as kill players without them fighting back, I guess... but it's just, you know, kind of against the point of the game?

This isn't even a "hardcore" view - this, I thought, was the whole point of the game. Trying to do stuff while other people try to do it better and stop you from doing it with some maybe ingame "political" reasons thrown in like all the drama we see from EvE.

Again, I'm not going to sit here and demand the game be what I want - these are just my opinions and maybe the game isn't for me. I'm definitely leaning towards CU right now, certainly. I'm also more than a little worried about what the final state of the game might look like. Definitely not alone there either going by the forum here and definitely reddit, and the MMORPG genre is already pretty iffy as is right now. Crowfall is not going to release into a receptive market and I still don't think it has the zing it needs for even a small tight playerbase.

Even us, the "hardcore fans" who gambled on an unfinished game are very divided about... a lot of components of the game. Eh.

Edited by Nightmarian

Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...