Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Lightsig

Nation EKs

Recommended Posts

Nations EKs as a concept would be allowing individual EKs to dedicate their EK to a player-made faction. This would create a campaign-like web of player EKs allowing players to travel seamlessly between them using runegates.

Additionally these could allow greater player control over events, possibly allowing for additional off-season campaigns based on borderland-style zones and player structured campaigns.

These could require resources that players typically acquire in CWs to act as a form of maintenance but could also exist as an off-season game mode where players influenced the design. This cost could potentially be offset with a system that reduced the resource demand or extended the duration of Nation EK CWs. Perhaps even with something like a prestige system where every team that fails to defeat the game mode increases that nations prestige. This could be an overall ranking to incentivize off-season shenanigans, or a way to recycle won resources in a gambling like effort to spawn higher rank nodes than would typically be found in EKs, or extend the availability of the borderlands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2019 at 2:17 AM, Lightsig said:

Nations EKs as a concept would be allowing individual EKs to dedicate their EK to a player-made faction. This would create a campaign-like web of player EKs allowing players to travel seamlessly between them using runegates.

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying we could stitch a group of EK's together into one instance? Loading into different instances isn't seamless.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying we could stitch a group of EK's together into one instance? Loading into different instances isn't seamless.

 

So there are more logistical layers to this like server uptime, possibly something that could be tied to VIP subs, but assuming (leap of faith) we could keep servers up 24/7 we could allow them to band together to create a minor campaign-esque instance.

The meaning of seamless here just denotes tying them together with runegates in a 24/7 online mode. This wouldn't be an on the fly kind of idea, but rather something that could be enacted in "off-season" periods as a way for players to flex creative designs by making their own game modes. But I don't want to get too far into the weeds here since you were just asking fot clarification on my intended meaning.

Edited by Lightsig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I would love to be able to link them together..

Same, and I definitely recall hearing the pains of such an approach, but if it could add more value for investing in EKs and drive subscriptions then it would be win-win.

Edited by Lightsig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since EKs all sit on their own servers which go dormant under certain conditions (hopefully those conditions change dramatically), they would need to wake up all connected servers at once most likely, but detail details; VERY much dig this suggestion: +1

Edited by starrshipcs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Lightsig said:

Same, and I definitely recall hearing the pains of such an approach, but if it could add more value for investing in EKs and drive subscriptions then it would be win-win.

Ya, that was ages ago, around 5.7/8. After they added the logout timer for EK's and currency was made useless I stopped following EK development. Recently they spoke about removing more monetization with EK's.(oct Q&A I think) Not sure what, if anything, they have in store for EK's anymore. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Ya, that was ages ago, around 5.7/8. After they added the logout timer for EK's and currency was made useless I stopped following EK development. Recently they spoke about removing more monetization with EK's.(oct Q&A I think) Not sure what, if anything, they have in store for EK's anymore. 

Yeah, I feel like there might be more they already have planned out that hasn't been revealed to us. I'm just taking the liberty to throw out additional ideas. It does make sense to me that depending on the total size of the playerbase not monetizing these individual player instances might make up a significant financial burden for ACE and while I love to see spaces like the EKs I do get concerned about how they will be implemented and what the full scope of utilization intended here is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that this should be  a guild feature,  1 XL land as a central hub that's the guilds land, with a rune gate with a list of available players lands to go to through. A stand alone gate or in a guild building itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming Eks worked sensibly this would be easy.

Currently there is no automated method to spin up EKs like you see in most instanced housing systems, which is why its such a pain to use them.

If spinning up an Ek was a function of trying to enter it, and shutting it down was a function of having nobody left in it, stitiching them together with runegates wouldn't really require any additional server load.

Everyone seems to have this sense of EKs like they need to be online and incurring AWS fees all the time to be available. You can have an infinite number of available EKs if you remove the whole concept of manually onlining them and make turning them on as transparent and activity dependant as turning them off.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/17/2020 at 11:12 AM, PopeUrban said:

Currently there is no automated method to spin up EKs like you see in most instanced housing systems, which is why its such a pain to use them.

If spinning up an Ek was a function of trying to enter it, and shutting it down was a function of having nobody left in it, stitiching them together with runegates wouldn't really require any additional server load.

Everyone seems to have this sense of EKs like they need to be online and incurring AWS fees all the time to be available. You can have an infinite number of available EKs if you remove the whole concept of manually onlining them and make turning them on as transparent and activity dependant as turning them off.

As I understand it, EKs actually do work as you described they should: a VM is spooled up when the EK owner (this needs changed to anyone with privs to a given EK) first logs into it and it spools down after x minutes with no active players.  I think the issue is that it takes quite a while for a server to spawn up and that delay would kill EKs for a lot of players.  IMO, it is much more important that the EK can be woken by someone other than the owner as that would at least make guild EKs something that can be ham-fisted into existence, but the VM loading delay is not insignificant and would only be amplified by multiple EKs being chained together without all of their respective VMs being active.

If they can find a solution that will result in quicker loading EKs without burning down an AWS warehouse by keeping every VM they are licensed for running hot, then that would be the ticket to making everyone happy here I'd think.  Perhaps a continuous bank of EK servers that are in an EK-agnostic state on boot but that can then be fed the details needed to spawn up a specific EK very quickly would work?  If, in the current state, they are spawning up VMs with all of the EK data housed locally to that server, and ONLY on to that server, then there would need to be some architecture changes to facilitate as there would probably need to be an ever-vigilant EK data server to orchestrate it all.

And, if it came to it, I'd just deal with the delay when moving from EK to EK as the useful factor of that feature would outweigh the pain of watching the load screen for 15 more seconds.  Not worth ACE spending too many resources here to recoup a few seconds for the first person into an otherwise dormant EK.

Edited by starrshipcs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, starrshipcs said:

As I understand it, EKs actually do work as you described they should: a VM is spooled up when the EK owner (this needs changed to anyone with privs to a given EK) first logs into it and it spools down after x minutes with no active players.  I think the issue is that it takes quite a while for a server to spawn up and that delay would kill EKs for a lot of players.  IMO, it is much more important that the EK can be woken by someone other than the owner as that would at least make guild EKs something that can be ham-fisted into existence, but the VM loading delay is not insignificant and would only be amplified by multiple EKs being chained together without all of their respective VMs being active.

If they can find a solution that will result in quicker loading EKs without burning down an AWS warehouse by keeping every VM they are licensed for running hot, then that would be the ticket to making everyone happy here I'd think.  Perhaps a continuous bank of EK servers that are in an EK-agnostic state on boot but that can then be fed the details needed to spawn up a specific EK very quickly would work?  If, in the current state, they are spawning up VMs with all of the EK data housed locally to that server, and ONLY on to that server, then there would need to be some architecture changes to facilitate as there would probably need to be an ever-vigilant EK data server to orchestrate it all.

And, if it came to it, I'd just deal with the delay when moving from EK to EK as the useful factor of that feature would outweigh the pain of watching the load screen for 15 more seconds.  Not worth ACE spending too many resources here to recoup a few seconds for the first person into an otherwise dormant EK.

You are mistaken. A Vm is spooled up when the owner clicks launch Ek from the menu.

Only after it is spooled up can the owner or any other player enter the EK.

The primary difference here is that this creates a risk, if the functionality were expanded to players other than the owner, of players just going down a list of eks and spinning all of them up, because it it not a function of joining the EK.

If it WERE a function of joining an EK this would not be an issue, and very little would change from the current system aside from the annoyance of needing the owner to be around to access an EK that houses your stuff. It would take longer to load in to eks that are currently offline (as they would need to mount and then load in in steead of just loading in to a live server) but this mirrors the current functionality with less clicks, less interface confusion, and greater effective access to EKS as anyone with permissions to access an EK would also have the ability to spin it up upon entering it and no player could simultaneously spin up multiple eks since any time a player is initiating an ek going live they're in a load screen and thus incapable of spinning up a second or third empty ek.

 

This would also remove all incentives to AFK in an EK, and may actually reduce overall server load for EKs for this reason.

 

The only drawback would be longer Ek load times when you're loading in to (and thus mounting) a completely empty EK. Even with this issue the mount times are trivial compared to the number of eks that exist and the number of players who need access to them.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

You are mistaken. A Vm is spooled up when the owner clicks launch Ek from the menu.

Only after it is spooled up can the owner or any other player enter the EK.

The primary difference here is that this creates a risk, if the functionality were expanded to players other than the owner, of players just going down a list of eks and spinning all of them up, because it it not a function of joining the EK.

If it WERE a function of joining an EK this would not be an issue, and very little would change from the current system aside from the annoyance of needing the owner to be around to access an EK that houses your stuff. It would take longer to load in to eks that are currently offline (as they would need to mount and then load in in steead of just loading in to a live server) but this mirrors the current functionality with less clicks, less interface confusion, and greater effective access to EKS as anyone with permissions to access an EK would also have the ability to spin it up upon entering it and no player could simultaneously spin up multiple eks since any time a player is initiating an ek going live they're in a load screen and thus incapable of spinning up a second or third empty ek.

 

This would also remove all incentives to AFK in an EK, and may actually reduce overall server load for EKs for this reason.

 

The only drawback would be longer Ek load times when you're loading in to (and thus mounting) a completely empty EK. Even with this issue the mount times are trivial compared to the number of eks that exist and the number of players who need access to them.

You are absolutely correct; in my mind I had already removed the "Launch EK" option and replaced it with simply "Enter EK" (because I haven't been in EKs in so long I forgot, and because decoupling those actions doesn't make any damn sense).  I think this is a front-end nuance though and not a significant hurdle to implementing a "launch on login" methodology; they just need to take that next step of making the load action inherent.  We certainly don't want any trolls just loading out EKs even if they have to try to log into one to do it, so in addition to tethering the load/login functionality together they would probably also want to put a check in for non-public EKs to ensure that the player has the privs to be there before the EK is even loaded.

Without making considerations for loading time and assuming that at least some EK data (specifically white lists for non-public EKs) is available to the lobby server to check prior to loading, then this IS a simple fix that would make everything work with the only side-effect being latency for the first person who happens to log into a given empty EK (I assume it would be like running through a rune gate in campaign when switching between EKs that are available).  Lone rangers would be much more affected by this while those in using large guild EKs with constant traffic may never even encounter the delay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...