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Yumx

Vanguards 5.100 Class Tier Lists!

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So we thought it might be a fun idea to make a tier list for the 4 main roles you come across when playing in a group.
This is both to give new players an idea of the viable promotions, and to share our view on how the different classes stand.

*DISCLAIMER - remember this is very subjective and based on our opinions and experiences from numerous fights throughout this patch.

How do we determine their ranks?
You can see our spreadsheet here: SPREADSHEET LINK
Each role has some different variables, and then to prevent the options from becoming too big - we chose to focus on what wins you campaigns currently, meaning how the different classes perform in their designated role, when fighting over objectives. This means forts and keeps(sieges).
This also means that niche roles or spec groups are not included in the determination of their ranks.

But to try and give a fair rating, since some classes shine when defending and are worse when attacking and vice versa, we put both those variables in.
Siege Offensive:
Rating on how well that class performs on an offensive siege.
Variables: Enemy guards, Enemy Ballista fire, Defenders, Size of the area (both long and short range).

Siege Defensive:
Rating on how well that class performs on a defensive siege.
Variables: Enemy Siege weapons, Attackers, Bottlenecks, Size of the area (both long and short range).

Fort Offensive:
Rating on how well that class performs on an offensive fort fight.
Variables: Enemy guards, Defenders, Size of the area (mainly close range).

Fort Defensive:
Rating on how well that class performs on a defensive fort fight.
Variables: Attackers, Size of the area (mainly close range).

Alright, let's get to it! (remember click to zoooooooooooom)


 

FRONTLINE
Main goal is to soak damage and lockdown enemies.
Variables: Prevent enemies from getting to your group, creating space and pressure, how easy they are killed.

VpOZ7N5.jpg
*click to zoom


MELEE DPS
Main goal is to kill enemies as a melee dps.
Variables: Damage output, ability to stay on target, how easy they get killed.

55kuFTT.jpg
*click to zoom


RANGED DPS
Main goal is to kill enemies from range.
Variables: Damage output, ability to stay on target, how easy they get killed.

HCUzMtS.jpg
*click to zoom


SUPPORT
Main goal is to heal and buff your team.
Variables: Healing output, buffs, ability to land heals reliably, how easy they get killed.

6I18PF1.png
*click to zoom


Hope you enjoy our Tier List, and let us know if you agree or not 😄

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Edited by Yumx

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ACE - I agree with much of what's written there.  Swordsman solo play shouldn't be an A though - no class with no viable self-sustain should rate higher than a B.   Which brings me to the point that all classes should have a viable form of self-sustain in a PvP game.  My dps warrior in WoW feels good in PvP because he has some self-sustain.  In Crowfall my swordsman can be nickel-and-dime'd to death with no recourse.

Pitfighter has way too much self-sustain, which is why it's an S in solo play (really, it should be an S++).

Vanguard - Why is Brigand listed as ranged DPS and warden not?  My warden feels pretty balanced between ranged and melee dps.

 

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1 minute ago, Durenthal said:

ACE - I agree with much of what's written there.  Swordsman solo play shouldn't be an A though - no class with no viable self-sustain should rate higher than a B.   Which brings me to the point that all classes should have a viable form of self-sustain in a PvP game.  My dps warrior in WoW feels good in PvP because he has some self-sustain.  In Crowfall my swordsman can be nickel-and-dime'd to death with no recourse.

Pitfighter has way too much self-sustain, which is why it's an S in solo play (really, it should be an S++).

Vanguard - Why is Brigand listed as ranged DPS and warden not?  My warden feels pretty balanced between ranged and melee dps.

 

Yeah dunno why swordsman was A in solo play - either way solo play does not matter much tbh.
Warden was not listed as ranged dps, because tbh it does just not excel at anything, it's not worth taking because there's always a bunch of classes/builds that can do their job way better.


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18 minutes ago, Yumx said:

Yeah dunno why swordsman was A in solo play - either way solo play does not matter much tbh.
Warden was not listed as ranged dps, because tbh it does just not excel at anything, it's not worth taking because there's always a bunch of classes/builds that can do their job way better.

For the past year I've played almost exclusively solo, so while it may not matter to active guilds, there's a significant portion of the player base that still tries to solo, and so I'm glad some thought was given to solo viability in your charts.

My warden is anti-stealth.  It's a specialty role and I saw that specialty roles aren't included in your charts, which is fine.  I'd argue that it's at about the same level as brigand in group play, which is why I was surprised to see Brigand there but not Warden.

Thanks for taking the time to come up with the lists - hopefully the devs will take it into account when rebalancing for 5.110 and beyond.

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I think you’ve underestimated the Sanctifier and Vindicator as DPS and  overestimated the Arbiter as Support. However, on balance, your analysis is spot on. 

 

There’s a promotion class called Vandal? Seriously? I don’t think I’ve ever seen one. 

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I suggest adding a "stackability" rating, as in, how many of this class could you bring per 10 people.  I think this may be helpful for newer players.

 

As example, you can bring 3-4 crusader clerics in a group of 10 but bringing more than 2 knights per 10 people is probably less advised.  The rating depends on your own biases and play styles but that goes without saying here.

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Support:

Disagree with Arbiter being rated higher than Archdruid. Depending on the latters disc/stat points it is a better healer and more useful in every situation. Im a cleric fan (all 3 specs) and I wouldn’t bring an Arbiter over an Archdruid.

Earthkeeper has probably the best hps and high survivability. And it’s buffs/debuffs make it really strong. It’s difficulty rating should be higher as well. It takes a higher skill to play the class at its most effectiveness. And the group needs to be more aware to take full advantage of its abilities. 

 

Melee:

Dirge is super strong. Think your rating is too low. High survivability. Great at keeping pressure. It’s base tool kit make it so you can build it a variety of ways. On keep defense a single Dirge/duelist can take a bane tree down to 50% solo with a single hit. Dirge outperforms conquerer, brigand, blackguard, and cutthroat imo.

 

Ranged:

Stormcaller rated higher than Archer? That’s nutty. Archer applies a lot more pressure on an enemy than a stormcaller does. Having more than double the effective range should bump its rating too. And stormcaller is brain dead easy to play, should be a 1 star.

Brigand rated as the lowest seems odd too. They hit really hard and it’s difficult to apply pressure to them as a melee (traps). Really only an archer or inquisitor is more threatening at ranged. 

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3 hours ago, Brightdance said:

Nice work Vanguard!

I think the knight deserves an honorable mention under Support. I view them as platforms for buffs and debuffs due to their CD reduction. You could argue that they are more support than melee dps… unfortunately.

Here here! Knights should never be considered dps as things are now :(.

 

Also brigands are melee dps not ranged (which is why any viability they had took a complete nose dive with the melee range change) but other than that seems about right :D

 

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I’m also surprised for solo play you have the slayer and scout rated higher than the Dirge. Neither of which have a self heal with barrier or plate armor. Slayers are only strong because of broken mechanics. And scouts are straight garbage. Dirge with the impale bug is still better for a solo player. 

Seems like you have several classes with little to no self sustain rated high on solo. Which seems odd to me. As well as some really squishy classes.

An alpha with no healing support is good for like one neck breaker and they is dead. 

There’s maybe a handful of Inquisitors out there who can solo. Your average player will get destroyed. 

And you have Crusader as a B? A solo crusader can heal everyone without being grouped. And is a pain to kill in a duel if they’re competent. 

Edited by oneply

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1 hour ago, oneply said:

Support:

Disagree with Arbiter being rated higher than Archdruid. Depending on the latters disc/stat points it is a better healer and more useful in every situation. Im a cleric fan (all 3 specs) and I wouldn’t bring an Arbiter over an Archdruid.

He is higher rated in Fortfights, you should check that point out and think about it. In an even fight with competent players, the archdruid cant play out his cards in a closequarters fight, neither can he really heal there.

 

1 hour ago, oneply said:

Melee:

Dirge is super strong. Think your rating is too low. High survivability. Great at keeping pressure. It’s base tool kit make it so you can build it a variety of ways. On keep defense a single Dirge/duelist can take a bane tree down to 50% solo with a single hit. Dirge outperforms conquerer, brigand, blackguard, and cutthroat imo.

Not sure in what kind of fights he got "high survivability". He is pretty much naked if it comes to that point and the plategear doesnt make up for it. In actuall groupfights they are maybe not useless but worse than pretty much everything else. Props on the bleeding tree tho.

 

1 hour ago, oneply said:

Ranged:

Stormcaller rated higher than Archer? That’s nutty. Archer applies a lot more pressure on an enemy than a stormcaller does. Having more than double the effective range should bump its rating too. And stormcaller is brain dead easy to play, should be a 1 star.

Are you sure you did understand that the rating you reffering to is meant for fortfights? I played mainly Archer in the past couple campaigns and I would never prefer the Archer over most other classes there. Forts are not the place to be for Archers especially NOT in an attackscenario.

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1 hour ago, Makuza said:

He is higher rated in Fortfights, you should check that point out and think about it. In an even fight with competent players, the archdruid cant play out his cards in a closequarters fight, neither can he really heal there.

if by fort fight you mean standing in the throne room, then yes I agree. And I’ve seen players like Xarrayne more than once be the deciding factor in a fort fight both offense and defense. But I also include their ability to do damage as apart of their support. Well placed bombs can separate enemies and create opportunities.

 

Not sure in what kind of fights he got "high survivability". He is pretty much naked if it comes to that point and the plategear doesnt make up for it. In actuall groupfights they are maybe not useless but worse than pretty much everything else. Props on the bleeding tree tho.

I’ve been in multiple 40v40 fights without a group in white gear on a Dirge and not dropped below 50% health. A lot of people do not use their ult or Redirect Pain effectively. I would argue that they are great to have in group, their DoT and CC synergize well with several comps. Their auto attack plus impale does a lot of damage quickly. 

Are you sure you did understand that the rating you reffering to is meant for fortfights? I played mainly Archer in the past couple campaigns and I would never prefer the Archer over most other classes there. Forts are not the place to be for Archers especially NOT in an attack-scenario.

I agree that archers aren’t the best for fort attacks if standing in the throne room is your key objective. But they can apply a lot of pressure both attack and defense if playing outside the throne room. In a close quarter situation stormcallers have little tto offer. And their slow charging ult only saves them once  

See bolded text. 

Edited by oneply

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