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Vanguards 5.100 Class Tier Lists!

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Vanguards list is nice but will soon be very outdated. So as a clairvoyant let me give u HoA's list of top everything in 5.11

top range dps

frostweaver

 

top healer

frostweaver

 

top frontline

frostweaver

 

best seige comp (attacking)

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

 

best seige comp (defending)

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

 

nothing else will matter. just who can frostweaver around elementalist the best.

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47 minutes ago, Medicaid said:

Vanguards list is nice but will soon be very outdated. So as a clairvoyant let me give u HoA's list of top everything in 5.11

top range dps

frostweaver

 

top healer

frostweaver

 

top frontline

frostweaver

 

best seige comp (attacking)

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

 

best seige comp (defending)

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

frostweaver

 

nothing else will matter. just who can frostweaver around elementalist the best.

ur forgetting 1 stormcaller for when i decide to be bad and not listen to what class we need


hoayaga2.jpg

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I like independent analysis of data!

I see the best overall being (based on spreadsheet):

Pit Fighter, Inquisitor, and Titan

Very fun!

The CreepLord hath Spreadsheetedeth

 

PS: Should have included Frontline, Ranged DPS, and Melee DPS for those three.  

Edited by CreepLordGodKing

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Thanks V for this! 

I want to point out one important moment to ACE combat design team as we are approaching combat balancing in alpha. Spreadsheet clearly states the lack of effective stealth mechanics in mass pvp. There is no even section for stealth/focus group because this playstyle is not valuable. And here is why it is bad for combat system.

I have played GW2 for several years, which had (and probably still has) one of the best MMO combat systems. And I saw all metas in mass pvp. 

When meta is shifted towards frontline, combat becomes chaos. Not valuable backline is not able to stop enemy pushes, whoever gets the most organized push and keeps rolling enemy wins the fight. Playstyle is press W and dont release while facerolling keyboard. It can be fun some time but 2/3 of your classes are not valuable.
 

When meta is shifted towards backline, combat becomes resident sleeper. We called it pirateship. Frontline can’t push because enemy backline would melt it with counter pressure/bombs. Noone is pushing, backline pew pew each other for several minutes, sometimes dozens of minutes until one backline gets advantage over another and opens opportunity for a winning push. Push too early and your frontline is dead. While backline has fun in such meta, frontline falls asleep, it is pretty boring. Stealth classes also get destroyed because you cant open on anything, there is too much ranged pressure everywhere.

Third meta, when balance is shifted towards sustain. Nothing dies. Zergs are formed as balls without real flanks, with small tails and roll over single enemy until it dies. There are no mass kills, you focus fire and bleed enemy one by one. It is current Crowfall meta. And the reason is 2k Support Power cap, which is easily reached in epic gear. It is also current GW2 meta and one of the reasons why people stopped playing GW2. It is even more boring than pirateship meta. Please take notes. Stealth classes are not valuable again, they have no sustain by design.

Now lets talk about the most fun meta that ever existed. If we split zerg into  5 parts, then roughly 2/5 would be frontline, 2/5 would be backline and 1/5 would be stealth/sudden burst groups. Frontline and backline should be pretty balanced: organized frontline push on disoriented backline can catch a few and kill them, however organized pressure from backline can stop the push and force frontline to regroup and heal in circles.  And the most important - stealth classes are valuable too. In meta when frontline pushes and regroups for heals, backliners and some disorganized frontliners get stuck out of position. That moment a good  stealther groups open on those people, punish their bad position by quickly killing them and vanish in stealth for the next opportunity. Combat system becomes fun. All roles are valuable, you always have to watch your position and correctly manage your cooldowns. Good decisions are rewarded, mistakes are punished. Combat is overall more versatile and skilled. Gear and numbers matter less. If Crowfall can achieve such kind of meta, it would be a lot of fun to play.

P.S. @Yumx It would be great to see a bit more detailed info on class difficulty as some classes can be played effectively by face-rolling keyboard and some shines only with great expertise. For example, Stormcaller and Archer are both rated with two stars for their braindead LMB plays, however Stormcaller is more effective on midrange by dropping sudden burst on offensive/overextending enemy (which is pretty easy) and archer is more effective on a flank shooting enemy backline (which is hard as you need to watch enemy movement and know when you overextend and when not) and both are useless when they randomly shoot enemy frontline.

Edited by ComradeAma

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On 1/3/2020 at 6:33 AM, TryKitt said:

Very nice overview of the classes. 

And I can just confirm what was stated above. The Oldschool Gw2 WvW Meta was awesome for guilds. 

I can debunk what was just stated above. GW2's mass combat balance always was and still is a garbage fire prioritizing indiscriminate application of too-powerful aoe damage, buff, and sustain abilities which left no room for anything else but giant blobs of people all trying to huddle in or run away from aoes and left any build not in possession of those aoes completely useless.

That meta was terrible for guilds and only fun for guild leaders who liked to scream BLAST FINISHERS NO OTHER FIELDS or GET IN BUBBLE or PUSH PUSH PUSH because the only strategy that existed was massive piles of people all doing the exact same thing regardless of class or build being led around by the two or three builds that actually mattered.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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38 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

 

I can debunk what was just stated above. GW2's mass combat balance always was and still is a garbage fire prioritizing indiscriminate application of too-powerful aoe damage, buff, and sustain abilities which left no room for anything else but giant blobs of people all trying to huddle in or run away from aoes and left any build not in possession of those aoes completely useless.

That meta was terrible for guilds and only fun for guild leaders who liked to scream BLAST FINISHERS NO OTHER FIELDS or GET IN BUBBLE or PUSH PUSH PUSH because the only strategy that existed was massive piles of people all doing the exact same thing regardless of class or build being led around by the two or three builds that actually mattered.

We werent talking about the current WvW Meta. We talked about the meta like 5 years in the past

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7 minutes ago, TryKitt said:

We werent talking about the current WvW Meta. We talked about the meta like 5 years in the past

Yes, it was terrible then as well. That is my entire point.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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